As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Liberty City]

She truly was a class act. From the Soap Central report:

❝ "It was her job," Beck told CBS Soaps In Depth. "She played the role for 20 years. It was sad, because I think a lot of people wanted to see her. I didn't realize when I took the job how loyal the fans are."

Though Beck offered to allow Byrne to resume playing Lily through the series' finale, the Emmy-winning actress never returned. According to Byrne, though Beck was willing to step aside, show brass apparently wasn't interested in an "unrecast."

"Of course, I would [return] in a second. You have to be asked first. It's like going to the prom -- you wait for the phone call and it may never come," Byrne told Soap Central's Dan J Kroll during an appearance on Soap Central Live back in May. "There's people who make those decisions, and their decisions have been made. It's unfortunate because I do love the show and, of course, I would love to be a part of it again before it goes away forever."

As for whether or not Byrne knew of Beck's offer, Byrne told TVGuide Canada's Nelson Branco that she did.

"I was aware of this offer by Noelle after the show was cancelled," Byrne revealed. "It was a very unselfish act on her part." ❞

[j swift]

I've always felt like Noelle Beck is a perfect example of why it is so cool that recasting is such an excepted part of this genre.

MB's character took on many of the traits of the actress, which were appealing.

But, think about the rare opportunity for a creative production to go back and a recast a role based on refocusing the core ideals of the character, rather than recreating the magic of the original actress?  In my mind, Noelle Beck is what Lily would look and act like if I would be reading about her in a novel. She was written from the Walsh side of the character scales, whereas MB played the Snyder side.  I'll admit that I was interested in watching a woman raised by Lucinda, rather than a Lily who developed in spite of Lucinda's influence.

I mean, we'd never accept another Carrie Bradshaw, but we learned to live with another Lily.  And that's part of what makes the soap fandom somehow more savvy.  Because, we don't need to be totally immersed in fiction, we can still respond to other iconic parts of storytelling.

Edited April 17 by j swift

[MarlandFan]

I'm not certain of the exact timing, but it was definitely during his first stint (1993-97) where he expressed frustration in a Soap Opera Digest story that the producers would not let him out of his contract early.  He stated that he had been promised flexibility prior to signing with ATWT but then felt that he was being "forced" to stay.  This makes sense because Caso was EP in 1993 and may have made a handshake deal to let him go, but once Caso was replaced, P&G may have demanded Seganti fulfill his contract? 

Post-Marland writers really screwed up the Grimaldi family.  Killing Eduardo and making Orlena a crazy woman were bad choices.

[DRW50]

I think Caso was there for up to the last 5-6 months of Seganti's run. 

The Grimaldis definitely could have been more. Letting Claire Bloom get away was a big mistake. 

[chrisml]

Martha Byrne was never an ATWT actress that I had a major attachment to although I think she's talented. I always found her a bit too rigid in her performances (which I put down to someone who's been in the role for so long and sticks with certain ways of doing things). At the time, I didn't like her treatment at the end, but now after her shenanigans, I don't really care. I loathed the character of Rose and hated the whole storyline. I found Noelle Beck a much more inviting presence. I didn't see enough of Heather Rattray to form an opinion. 

[adrnyc]

If she's ever actually done anything to support gay people, I would be surprised. I had an evening out with her "Martinis with Martha" and, being gay, I definitely got the sense she was merely being polite - and not doing a very good job at that either. I still love watching Lily and Rose though. Lots of artists I enjoy have differing politics to mine.

After chatting with her for 2+ hours, I always wondered if the reason they had Lily not react well to Luke being gay, while Holden fully supported him, was because Martha didn't want to support a gay storyline.

[P.J.]

I'd always assumed that Lily's reluctance over Luke's sexuality was to facilitate another maternity leave....now maybe it was a little deeper than that.

As for Byrne, I think she was a precocious child Broadway actor who fell into the trap of believing the praise she got, and that her acting never really grew after a point. Lily's basically the same spoiled princess she is in 1988 as she was in 2005, when she's ready to bring Carly down with her to save her precious Luke after Julia II was murdered. And I heartily disliked Rose, whose novelty wore off after Holden uttered those famous words "...that's your real voice?"

[Mitch64]

Maybe, but I think it may have been more of a reversal kind of thing, where you would expect the dad, especially someone like Holden, to be against it while the Mom supported it (I always though on GL, Reva could go either way, be the most obnoxious PFLAG mom ever "Okay, boys, where are we going clubbing tonight??? What you dont want me to go??") or to be freaked out that she might have made him that way. I think JH had a calm, cool dad vibe about him, so I can see them having him be more accepting with high strung Lily freaking  out (whatever she bitched about with Lucinda, Lily was secretly hung up on appearances.)

[Tisy-Lish]

Has Martha ever demonstrated that she is personally anti-gay?  I realize she's become quite a right-winger, but I always thought that sprang from her belief that the "deep-state" was persecuting her husband and family.  Frankly a surprising number of conservatives are quite pro-gay, including even some who are far right-wingers. And I'm not defending conservatives. Just sharing something I have noticed. 

Edited April 18 by Tisy-Lish

[Contessa Donatella]

This is all or mostly, weird to me. Let me give a baseline of sorts. I was a HUGE fan of Martha Byrne. I totally adored Scott Holroyd. When they cut that excellent umbrella storyline short by having this stupid killing of Rose, I was furious. COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MADDER. Just as I loved MB's Lily in the same fashion & equal to it, also, I loved MB's Rose. To me it was one of the smartest things to come out of Chris Goutman's head. Then, much later, when Goutman inexplicably decided to throw MB under the bus, I was flabbergasted. Hated Beck in the role. Absolutely interfered with my enjoyment of the show, as a fan. Then, of course, Goutman did a whole helluva lot of other things I am severely critical of. 

Just to check off the rest of the boxes, me & Rattray, nope, didn't work. I'm sure she's a lovely person but, ... not Lily to me.

And, whoever it was who posted about MB as some sort of privileged Broadway child actor, well, it's just not really accurate, although it is true she told them she wanted to act when she was 10 & they took her to auditions, etc. & yes she did work in Broadway shows. But, BITD if she was privileged or entitled she hid it very well. I had occasion to know & to know her mom, salt of the earth. I'd have sworn she was a grounded, real person. 

Now, today she & Doug Davidson can go kick rocks.  

 

[chrisml]

 I know Van Hansis plays Lucas on GH, but I doubt his storylines on GH are any better than they were on ATWT. I  hope they would have improved but I doubt it. I fear it'll just get worse as sponsors and networks cater to the anti-LGBT bigotry. An executive order will come down threatening them in some way.

I know Jean P. says she regrets the unhappy ending for Luke's character, but in the fifteen years, has much changed? I haven't watched any of the soaps since then so I'm clueless. I believe there are gay characters on DOOL, but if Ron Carlivati is writing them (is he still hw?), I don't have much faith. I don't think B&B and Y&R have gay characters. Not sure about the Gates. 

 

[adrnyc]

Until I met her, I had always thought exactly as you did. That was a role reversal thing. And, more than likely, it was.

I still got a pretty anti-gay vibe from her that night. It was just the two of us and a friend of hers so we spent a long time talking all things. Obviously, there's no way for me to know for sure. It was just...a gay's intuition. 

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[TEdgeofNight]

You are not wrong. I was there.

I attended Roger Newcomb’s Nuke get togethers and let’s just say that Martha’s ears were burning. 

[Contessa Donatella]

MB a homophobic bigot? I seriously doubt that. And, I've seen no sign of it. I'd be very interested in it if someone has. 

Lucas is still new but his gayness seems fine. His ex. Brad, has almost stalked him. But, his new romance looks very interesting. 

Y&R has one couple, two women, they don't identify as lesbian, which is weird. Also the show does not write for them, enough. Mostly just told about things they did offscreen. They had a two-day wedding. 

DAYS has had lots of gays, some good story, other awful. They won the WGA award one year for one of the awful ones. They also had two women where neither one identified as lesbian. One said she was bi & the other said she was fluid. GMAB. They actually had a threesome with a guy. So, to be the "diversity" soap, they fail. 

Ron is HW for 5 more days. 

[Mitch64]

What umbrella storyline was it?

 

Haha..THAT is funny and the total vibe those two gave...which is fine, that is normal and if they transitioned them to recurring tentpoles or let them have midlife crisis affairs..but no, they were acting like their great LOVE was still there and others were attracted to those two.. (I have to admit, I think I am the only one who found Hemsly sexier in his middle age..he gave off that sense of solid grounded dad that had a live wire side waiting when you got alone...(well, besides his hair...they never knew how to do it...)Lily, no..she looked like the former princess who got a bigger butt, was uptight, but still insisted to be treated like she was at 19 (she reminds me of the Pioneer Woman cooking host..)

I could agree with Rose living...I think I would want to get a reunion of the dorm ATWT watchers together so we could finally relish the death of Lily..someething we wanted 20 years before...if it was on her birthday, were everyone in town was made to stand around and worship her,  but instead witnesses her eating a poisioned cake( hopefull made by that cow Mama Snyder who left the batter out too long) all the better!!!