As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Mona Kane Croft]

I agree. She was so disapproving of so many things, but still lovable. She reminded me of both of my grandmothers.  And Helen Wagner could send a disapproving message with just her eyes, even if the dialogue was neutral.  No idea why the Dobsons thought Nancy (of all people) was boring. They must have been idiots.  

[Mitch64]

Yes, I love how even during Marland and after Helen gave a look that belied Nancy's real thoughts.  I think the Dob had problems switching from writing Bert Bauer to Nancy Hughes (even though Marland essentially made Nancy as less outgoing warm Bert.) Bert had fire but she had given up her controlling ways by then.  I also think they just were annoyed being at ATWT, did not like the firm structure the show and half assed it most of the time until their second tenure where they got to try out their Santa Barbara stuff( more campy comedy, fantasy etc.)

I do love that if you ever read Datalounge "Midwestern" posts someone there poses at Helen Wagner "vinegary" personality as she lambasts Colleen Zenk and the rest of the "hussies" who ran around the studio on her show..so a little bit of judgemental Nancy Hughes lives on.

 

[Mona Kane Croft]

I used to check out Datalounge often, but it's been a few years.  I'll try to find Midwestern on there.  Speaking of Datalounge, have you ever read the posts from "Beverly Penberthy's gay nephew"?  Based on the information he shares (or used to share), I came to believe he probably really is her gay nephew.  He knows too much to be a fake.  

[Vee]

Julianne Moore did say in 2010 (when she made her brief return) that Helen Wagner was still giving them acting tips.

[Vee]

That's what I was thinking - what a 'stache! It's too bad Patricia Bruder's role was already entombed in stone by this point. Unlike, say, Denise Alexander's somewhat similar character on DAYS (Susan Martin) who IIRC stayed active for years to come after circumstances close to Ellen's with a lost child and so forth.

Do we know if Jennifer was generally prickly as a character or if it was just the situation at the time with Bob, her son, etc.? I just remember seeing Gillian Spencer's very spooky, troubled character on Agnes' GL in the '60s.

[SoapDope]

Jennifer in looks and attitude puts me in the mind of Bonnie Franklin from "One Day At A Time". A liberated outspoken woman very much of her time (1970's). 

Jay looked very 1970's hip with his pornstache. I noticed most of the soaps back then rarely let their leading men wear facial hair. I remember being shocked seeing Bob with a beard in some early 80's episodes. 

[All My Shadows]

I wrote a longer reply in agreement with this earlier, but the site went crazy when I hit the post button. Anyway, I’ve watched this episode 3 times since last night, and the more I watch, the more I want. Nancy really was a unique character at this time, and she was a character - a real character. Just from her energy, you can tell she wasn’t just sitting around pouring the coffee and listening to everyone else. There’s a vitality in her in this ep that I’ve never seen before, but it’s not a particularly benevolent energy. This is a woman who could (rightly) get told off in the most disrespectful way. But at the same time, she’s still having kitchen conversation with Grandpa. This is truly the World Turns I’ve always wanted to see. If we could get just a month or two’s run of episodes, I’d be set.

[EricMontreal22]

I just wanted to echo what you say--such a great depiction of a grandma.  I wonder when soaps lost this?  I guess I know but.

I'm lazy with my broken leg trying to catch up... But can anyone fill me in on this guy with the hand issue?

[NothinButAttitude]

OMG. Seeing early Kim and being pregnant with Sabrina is a jewel. Even though she did something so scandalous, Kim still seemed regal and loveable. John and David at odds... Seeing Nancy being a busybody is so odd yet intriguing. I really hope more clips from 70s ATWT pop up. Watching this clip made me misty-eyed as I miss Oakdale. 

[Paul Raven]

Jennifer had been introduced in late 71 shortly before Irna returned in Jan 72.

Originally played by Geraldine Court,Gillian Spencer took over. I would imagine that Irna had a different vision for the character and felt a recast was necessary. Not having read any 72 or 73 synopses it's hard to know how the character evolved onscreen, but it seems that she was a more 'liberated' type who wanted a career .

Irna tried to reflect the times, but perhaps Jen was seen as somewhat unsympathetic for wanting more than marriage and children.

@EricMontreal22 Dennis Cooney was Jay-he had been on Love of Life and Secret Storm. He was introduced as a brooding mysterious type and was first paired with Lisa. But he calmed down and married the beloved Carol. However, traces of the original Jay remained and he caused poor Carol much heartache by having an affair with Natalie and impregnating her . Carol always stuck by him.

Cooney was written off by the Dobsons in 1980. He stopped appearing for a few months and then was killed off.

Dennis was a confirmed bachelor and the Daytime mags of the 70's did stories on his love of antiques...

[prefab1]

All this talk about Dennis Cooney got me curious, and I found a great interview Lydia Hirsch did with him in 1976 in which he talks critically about some of the edgier storylines ATWT were afraid to pursue in the early 1970s.  

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[DRW50]

@prefab1 Thanks. I'd never seen that. He looks oddly like Van Hansis here (just with a mustache). Of course he played Michael...

I imagine the complaining was another reason the Dobsons were fine with writing Jay out, although I'm not sure what story was left for him. Anything of him later on just seems to be about pride and money problems, the same tedium they would then give his replacement (Steve).

He is right that they should have done more with a Jay/Lisa relationship. And then they teased again with Lisa and other younger men (Brad, Brian, the other Jay). Never happened. Lisa never had any stories with younger men.

@EricMontreal22 you have probably already seen these, but Jay is in a number of the clips (full episodes chopped up) WLS posted from October 79-early 1980. Here's the first (he's in the last sections).

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@Vee I was going to say that killing Susan's son gave her a chance to be given more storylines than Ellen had, but I guess Denise Alexander leaving mostly put a stop to that. 

The odd part is they were fine with giving Ellen's mother Claire several love interests (at least until they realized they'd made her a great-grandmother and killed her). I suppose it's because she never had a steady partner. Or because she was labeled a "neurotic" so that meant more stories about men who didn't love her. Ellen always had David. By the time she didn't, they weren't really writing for her. I don't even know if she had any other serious love interest during the period she and David almost divorced.

[Reverend Ruthledge]

At the risk of being pedantic, Claire had a steady partner with Doug which was only cut short by his death. 

[Mona Kane Croft]

I was thinking the same thing about Doug.  And I don't remember Claire being particularly neurotic until she got involved with Michael Shea.  And HE would have made anyone neurotic!   I suppose it is possible Claire had been portrayed as neurotic before she married Doug.  But she always seemed pretty normal to me during their marriage, at least.  

Edited February 1 by Mona Kane Croft

[Mitch64]

Yes...and why put her on the back burner when there was so much going on that she could disapprove of...she should have always been the person who had a thing about James and knew he was bad when he was still hiding it...( A Swedish prince is better then our Tom??) and Joyce was on the loose, and greasy Steve, and loudmouth Margo...John Dixon's daughter of all things getting with Tom??? She was one of my Mom's faves and she quit watching when they put her on the back burner and I now know why, my Mom was the type that you stayed at home and took care of your house and kids, but she never backed down or let my Dad walk over her and she ALWAYS had opinions on what was right and wrong, but was always there if someone needed anything and she thought her kids were the world. So Irna really did have a whole generation in mind when writing for Nancy and it is sad that was lost during the Dobsons time. 

I saw in interview with Wagner who talks about Nancy being too involved in her kids life and being at a friends house who invited another friend who wanted to have coffee with Nancy Hughes and Wagner having to tell her in her haughty Nancy voice, "I am NOT the same!" Uh, yea, Helen you kinda are!

She had this boring doctor boyfriend who she actually SLEPT with! I can imagine what Nancy would have said about that? "Really dear, you aren't Lisa!" 

That would have been the perfect time for a widowed Don to come back with that kid and for he and Ellen to be invovled again. I would have had Lisa chasing him (and pulling out some of her old tricks.), and Nancy being very concerned that Ellen is not getting back with David, and the possiblity that her golden girl Lisa would be back in the family.