I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

It seems obvious he was more used to the pace of daytime by the time he did ATWT vs. his struggle at OLTL where Erika Slezak has said he quit because he just couldn't handle the rigors of it. I wonder what all happened.

The scenes with Margo, Craig, Lyla and Casey were all funny, sweet, touching, something that these characters (and the show) lost by the mid '90s. This is one of the reasons I just never could accept the changes to Craig and his relationships - Craig could be a selfish [!@#$%^&*], but he often loved his family. Scott Bryce had an ease and vulnerability no one else in the part could find.

When I watch these again I can understand why I was fond of Shannon at the time, as Margaret Reed is such an emotive, charismatic performer in these years (as shown in her last scene with Richard Burgi), but her stories just go nowhere by this point. The whole idea of morally upright Grant Coleman being evil or a killer is a nonstarter, even if James Douglas does a good job with the doubt. 

I was impressed with the relatively honest portrayal of homophobia and how it affects not just the gay character, but also the young straight men who battle with their homophobia and insecurity, and are targeted for being close to him. I've seen other episodes of the story which detail these things, but not sure any have ever done the contrast with Hank, Andy, and Paul as succinctly as this one. The f slur being thrown around makes this feel more real than I had expected. You would not get anything along these lines on a soap in the last few decades. Nor would you get the reality that only a handful of people would actually be close to Hank (especially poor Iva, who in real life probably would have spent half her time venting to gay men), with the most you get otherwise being apathy or hostility. 

I've wondered at times whether it was especially true to life for Hal to be son in Hank's corner, but I still appreciate it. 

I'm never sure why Marland didn't do more with Iva's biological father and his family. They just never feel very natural, and don't have enough impact on her life. It's a shame the woman who plays the nasty sister, Elizabeth, is so weak, as she is the only one in the group who is allowed to be flawed (as she has to move the plot along while her "good" family react to her). Elizabeth is the type of character you'd get more of on prestige dramas in the '00s and '10s. I wonder if Marland knew someone like her, and couldtn't stand her.

Seeing Lisa Brown and Liz Hubbard was a heartbreaker, but a reminder of what underrated, nuanced acting partners they always were together.

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by DRW50

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Thanks! I always wondered if they wanted to do more with Earl and didn't. But I don't know how far he and Lisa got, I'm still deep in '86 lol.

I can't remember when exactly, but it gets to a point where Earl just does not appear for long periods of time. I'm not sure what Farley Granger's status with the show was by 1988. I like Farley's work on the show, he's very charming, but based on the way he was used, they should have just contained him to one story and then wrote him out at the end of the story.

when granger joined atwt in 1986, his partner, robert calhoun, was the executive producer. calhoun left the show in 1988. wonder if that had anything to do with granger’s status? 

Just now, wonderwoman1951 said:

when granger joined atwt in 1986, his partner, robert calhoun, was the executive producer. calhoun left the show in 1988. wonder if that had anything to do with granger’s status? 

I'd forgotten about that. That makes a lot of sense. 

Sorry for not tagging you. Hard to remember a lot of the names.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

It seems obvious he was more used to the pace of daytime by the time he did ATWT vs. his struggle at OLTL where Erika Slezak has said he quit because he just couldn't handle the rigors of it.

Well, that's the official story behind his departure from OLTL.  Allegedly, Farley Granger quit or was fired because he had been sexually harassing a younger actor on the show (although, I can't recall which actor in particular).

8 minutes ago, Khan said:

Well, that's the official story behind his departure from OLTL.  Allegedly, Farley Granger quit or was fired because he had been sexually harassing a younger actor on the show (although, I can't recall which actor in particular).

Oh, I know that story too. (IIRC the claim was the boy who played Brian Kendall) But that was an old Datalounge rumor and I don't know if it's ever been corroborated. And Erika, who had no trouble cutting loose with full candor in the oral history once the show was over about many topics like Clint Ritchie's alcoholism, backed the other story, so I choose to opt for that as of now.

One of these days, I'm going to have to break down and purchase that OLTL oral history on Amazon, lol.

Just now, Khan said:

One of these days, I'm going to have to break down and purchase that OLTL oral history on Amazon, lol.

It's worth it! And pretty cheap. I posted way too many excerpts from it in the thread dedicated to it at the time and IIRC the author was not pleased with me. I only found that out much later, lol. I'm sorry, Jeff Giles!

26 minutes ago, Vee said:

27 minutes ago, Khan said:

of these days, I'm going to have to break down and purchase that OLTL oral history on Amazon, lol.

It's worth it! And pretty cheap. I posted way too many excerpts from it in the thread dedicated to it at the time and IIRC the author was not pleased with me. I only found that out much later, lol. I'm sorry, Jeff Giles!

it is sooo worth it. that level of candor must have involved some adult beverages.

also looking forward to the ryan’s hope oral history coming out in the fall.

Edited June 8, 20232 yr by wonderwoman1951

I hope someone will do an AMC oral history one of these days, if only so we can maybe get to the bottom of the "Susan Lucci threw a carton of yogurt at Henry Kaplan!" rumor.

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I have a vague memory of this being up before but I can't find it now and that may be on how samey the Earl Mitchell death story from around this point was. Posting in case it's new to you.

@DramatistDreamer @slick jones @soapfan770 @Mitch64 @Vee @victoria foxton @vetsoapfan @Soapsuds @P.J. @Paul Raven @Khan @DeliaIrisFan @kalbir @Soaplovers @TVFAN1144 @Sapounopera

 

Cool. Thank you @DRW50!

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The scenes with Margo, Craig, Lyla and Casey were all funny, sweet, touching, something that these characters (and the show) lost by the mid '90s. This is one of the reasons I just never could accept the changes to Craig and his relationships - Craig could be a selfish [!@#$%^&*], but he often loved his family. Scott Bryce had an ease and vulnerability no one else in the part could find.

Since the character debuted in 1983, 98% of the problems that Craig got into were on account of his desire to hold on too tightly to family, whether it was his failing marriage (Betsy) or a child that turned out not to be his (Dani). It was completely out of character to twist the character into this snarky, selfish, power hungry guy who would toss his own son under the bus for a few moments of passion or a few measly dollars. And the way the relationships with Dani and Lily had corroded in the last decade of the show was truly vile.

Lily was always Craig's biggest advocate with Lucinda/Sierra just as much as Sierra was the mediator between Lily/Lucinda.  So to have Craig treat Lily the way that he did just contradicted the history between Craig/Lily.  It was acceptable that he/Rose didn't jive because of the lack of history.. but Lily/Craig were always good friends.

I do remember Grant Coleman being the red herring for causing the gaslighting of Lisa after Earl's vanished.. but I remember my mom saying that there was no way Grant would ever do anything that vile to Lisa.   She had said that Grant was Lisa's true love.. and that the break up of their marriage due to Joyce was the thing that caused Lisa to become the anti heroine in the 80s and thereafter.

29 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Lily was always Craig's biggest advocate with Lucinda/Sierra just as much as Sierra was the mediator between Lily/Lucinda.  So to have Craig treat Lily the way that he did just contradicted the history between Craig/Lily.  It was acceptable that he/Rose didn't jive because of the lack of history.. but Lily/Craig were always good friends.

I do remember Grant Coleman being the red herring for causing the gaslighting of Lisa after Earl's vanished.. but I remember my mom saying that there was no way Grant would ever do anything that vile to Lisa.   She had said that Grant was Lisa's true love.. and that the break up of their marriage due to Joyce was the thing that caused Lisa to become the anti heroine in the 80s and thereafter.

It would have been so easy and made so much sense to bring Grant back for a brief story arc by the end of the series. They wouldn’t have even had to rekindle the romantic relationship between Grant and Lisa but at  least reunite them in such a way as to give Lisa some option, a hint at a romantic possibility.

And I agree with your assessment of Craig and Lily’s relationship. Another thing that I didn’t like about how the character was portrayed in the last 12 years was the covetousness and seeming quest for power, just for kicks it seemed, which had never been a motive in the past—desperation and even an apparent need to right a perceived wrong that comes across as revenge, that at least would have made sense but not what showed up onscreen in that last decade.

I don’t think that Anne Sward got enough credit for how much chemistry she displayed with all her onscreen children, through all recasts. Those hospital scenes were moving. 
The good ole Mona Lisa. That scene featuring the argument between Kirk and Jared Carpenter and his daughter as Barbara casually eavesdrops.  So much warmth in those scenes between Bob and Kim and the extension of that warmth to Hank. The scenes just flowed. I still can’t get over Lucinda trying to patch up Kirk and Iva’s relationship. Heavy handed but she meant well. It was obvious that Lucinda preferred Iva to Ellie. With Iva, she knew what she was getting, while Ellie was somewhat of a flake.

I remember that Farley Granger was replaced by the show (One Life to Live).    The new Dr. Will Vernon was Bernie McInnerny.   He was only one for a short time, so he may have been a temporary substitute. 

I did not know at that time that Mr. Granger was propositioning a younger actor, but the pornagraphic actor Jerry Butler told in his autobiography that an actor on One Life to Live had promised him a role on the show in exchange for affection (I am thinking that it would have been Brad Vernon #2 when Jameson Parker left the show's cast).   I do not know if this offer was from Mr. Granger or Anthony George (although I suspect Mr. Granger).

Mr. McInnerny had completed his role on The Edge of Night as Mark Ferriday.

The actor who replaced Bernie McInnerny was Anthony George.    He had begun his daytime career as Burke Devlin #2 and Jeremiah Collins.  He later joined the cast of Search for Tomorrow.  He left that show and was later hired to play Dr. Vernon on One Life to Live.   He remained on the show as a contract player for a number of years, and, at the time that he was dropped, the show said that he may be seen occasionally.    However, he only returned (shortly after) during the death storyline of his daughter Samantha Vernon Buchanan Garrettson.

 

Dr. Vernon lost his wife Naomi (played by Teri Keane, who had earlier been on As the World Turns) in a botched suicide attempt.  He later had romances with several other romantic partners on One Life to Live.