Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

 

I think one of the problems is that the found families for most of The City's lifespan were unknown or barely known to viewers. There weren't that many longstanding friendships to carry over. 

[Vee]

I think it worked with Angie and Jacob, Buck, Tess and Ally, Alex and Jocelyn, etc. I believed in those relationships coming out of Loving and in the early weeks of TC, even if I don't think Jocelyn - and I loved Lisa Lo Cicero, both then and now - could hold a candle to Ava and Alex, and I think that relationship with Alex should've been taken much slower; I don't know when they officially became involved on TC because we don't have enough episodes, but they weren't at the outset, they were still just friends with the possibility of more when Loving ended and Alex left town to try to save his marriage to Ava. I think the introduction of Nick Rivers and Lorraine into the mix worked. But I don't think the plot or writing was always there. And I just don't think viewers used to a certain type of soap opera were prepared to see that kind of setup in daytime period.

[dc11786]

"The City" wasn't unique in the sense that NBC was basically trying the same experiment with similar results with "Another World." The writing wasn't there, which was the problem with "Loving." From what I've seen of "The City," the characters are thinly conceived at best and harsh and unlikeable at worst. Like "Loving," the show had some good cast members, but the storytelling and the characterization were inconsistent. I think Harmon Brown and Essensten did attempt some interesting issues (homeless youth, incest, marital rape, transgender characters, racial tension), but the stories were underdeveloped and then quickly dropped. 

 

The biggest issue I find with "The City" is tone. The show would deal with such compelling, dramatic ideas but in the most salacious way possible. Azure C.'s revelation being splashed on the page of the newspapers. Jocelyn Brown surviving incest at the hands of her father and living a dual life as a lawyer and prostitute. 

 

I didn't enjoy those early episodes of "The City" that appeared on YouTube last spring. They had little energy and the one story that I felt had a bit of energy (Steffi / Tony) was never going to last given Heinle started on the show with two months left on her contract. I definitely felt the primetime influences. I think the first Friday cliffhanger was Kayla firing a shot in Angie's clinic which seemed like a rejected story idea from "New York Undercover." Currently, I'm making my way through "General Hospital" episodes in 1995. I can't help but wonder if the Soleito family was influenced at all by the Cerullos. The large Italian family living in the City. 

 

I don't think the found family was the issue. If the characters were more developed, it would have worked. The truth is almost everything from "The City" was based in the work of Brown and Essensten on "Loving" with little of anything from before their period which made sense given what the intention of the network was. I also think most of the pre-B & E characters who were brought to "The City" were bizarre choices. Catherine Hickland's Tess is such a harsh character as written by B & E. The character's backstory was incredibly clunky (the whole Dante Partou mess). And while I get the idea of the cowboy in the City, Buck just seems like a character with limited story potential. What story did Tess and Buck have on the City? Just the cancer stoyline right?

 

Also, it's very weird that the show did nothing with Frankie beyond that brief exploration of his roots with Monti Sharp's film student character. I have to wonder if they didn't dump Frankie to keep Angie appearing as a younger mature lead given that she was now mother to a college student and exploring fertility issues. "Days of our Lives" has this trouble all the time with their super couples having kids decades apart and thanks to SORAS there being a ridiculous age gap. 

 

Final random comment, but it's interesting that Noelle Beck ended up appearing on "Central Park West" while "The City" was airing given that they were both attempting similar things at different times of the day. 

 

 

[DRW50]

 

On paper, I think Tess made sense heading to NYC, as she was a big fish in a small pond in Corinth. They really made her so unpleasant though - some of the soap magazines at the time panned the show for having her blackmail Ally with Steffi's role in Gwyn's death. 

 

B&E were never very warm writers - their tenure on Loving is cold and their new characters introduced on Loving were all aggressive and hard. Loving had had dark periods before, but this was balanced out by a longtime cast viewers knew and cared about. 

 

It's logical, I guess, to have a show based in NYC that isn't kisses and cuddles, but onscreen, it was not likely to bring new viewers or keep the Loving viewers. 

 

They did try later on to have a somewhat warmer atmosphere, but by then it was too late. 

[Soaplovers]

Tess vs Sydney had potential on the City....and I think Tess being buddies with Jacob..but she/Angie not liking one another was another element not explored.

 

I would have bought out Heinle's contract instead of having her appear and leave 2 months into the new show.  At the same time, she and Tony had a good rapport while her new friendship with Azure had promise.

 

 

[Forever8]

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[John]

Wasnt the City hoping to lure Noelle Beck back as Trisha with her son & also introduce Ally's son & also Alex's kids with Ava if The City had been renewed

[FrenchBug82]

Well that would have been easy since Trisha moved to New York City under another name to be a book publisher around that time...

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Joking aside, I could have enjoyed that as a Loving fan but I am not sure Loving legacy characters were going to be of any interest to the "new" audience The City was supposed to reach.
If they wanted Loving fans, they could have kept Loving. And yes, that's me being bitter.

Edited March 30, 2021 by FrenchBug82

[EricMontreal22]

Was Another World trying the same thing?  I... don't see that but I'd love to hear what you mean.

Your description of The City isn't wrong, but it makes me think you've only watched the first six months or a bit more.  As I've said before, I think it really came into its own in its final six months or so and (rather quickly all things considered) understood and improved from a lot of its early problems (including short term "shock" stories like how they handled the racial and trans storylines).  There was a much stronger sense of a found family and genuine affection.  And of course having Tracy on the show helped immeasurably (I don't think I've ever liked her character more).

[EricMontreal22]

Within two weeks--hang on to your hats--I should be able to upload and post some of the Jonathan sells his soul to the devil/turns into a snake storyline

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[j swift]

 

Not to go too far into the weeds on the AW analogy, but the Bayview Courts apartments on Another World was another attempt at trying to tie twentysomething characters together based on living in a communal space rather than within a family unit (very Melrose Place).

 

However, even in the 90's, it would have been rare for a rich woman like Sydney Chase to live in the same building as an editor's assistant like Ally.  And I don't know many municipal building officials would allow a permit for a new drop-in clinic to be next door to a dive bar.  In retrospect, perhaps the writers of The City thought too small by having everyone live within feet of each other rather than using the entirety of Greenwich Village, or the borough of Manhattan, as a backdrop?  

[FrenchBug82]

That's usually the problem with soaps set in a proper urban environment. It seems silly to the audience that people who live in a big city would be constantly on top of each other in the same five places - that's not how it works in real life - but if you start spreading people out, you lose the sense of "place" that is crucial to soaps. It is a hard balance to waive and that's why writers have always set soaps in mid-size towns instead where they can stretch the importance and size of the city when needed for story.

Britain has done much better finding a way to create a sense of place and community in a large city setting: both Coronation Street and East Enders are in proper cities.

[DRW50]

 Wow! It has been so so difficult to find any of that era. Even my vague dislike of John O'Hurley won't keep me away. Thank you,

[EricMontreal22]

Watch this space...

Aww thanks--that does make sense.

You're right (although Sydney did own the building and had the penthouse, but...)  It made more sense with Tracy given her life situation.  But, while I defend the last half of the City, I completely agree that it might have worked better to pull from a small neighbourhood (maybe fictional) in NY instead of one building 

As FrenchBug says that's always a problem when you set a soap in an actual big city (and even small town soaps suffer from this when they started to have every conceivable thing in their town including several massive businesses).  The UK soaps do make it work by creating fictional communities within a big city, although even there you do start to wonder why they all seem to live, work and have fun on the same four streets...

[Franko]

*faints*