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@Khan You mentioned earlier that the show needed to choose a lane with one angle (the college) or the other (the class divide). I do think they could have done both, but it would have meant being a bit more deliberate than they were. The fact that the Aldens had both AU and AE was a bit much because they were so separate, but I would have linked them. What if AE was growing into new industry (electronics or computer science for exmaple) and was looking to use AU as sort of a training ground for their company. Cabot would want more funds spent on building up this growing field's department at the expense of more classical studies, which mortifies Garth Slater who vehemently blocks any progress leading to the installation of Roger Forbes as president to push through these changes. Maybe Doug Donovan is an assistant professor on track for a full time position, but the changing of funds means Doug's no longer able to be offered that role. In turn, Doug wonders if he and Merrill should wait as he was expecting that money to help with their future. Instead, Doug is forced to watch them expand the other department that would benefit AE. In addition, this would be a reason that Cabot also wants to hush up the prostitution scandal quickly because of his new baby, the computer science department. Tony Perilli was into computers and this would be a more logically reason for him to arrive in Corinth. And as a budding computer major on track for a role at AE, he can stay in town. As would other college students. Also, the increase in workforce would require more housing leading to more contracts for Forbes Construction. Also, I would have made AU (with an alternate name) a product of Isabelle's family history which Cabot has had significant say as her husband. I would, over time, have Isabelle take a greater presence at the University and this cause issues with Cabot.

I can agree with Babbin, who said at one point she still wasn't happy with the writing on the show by early 1991. It's a more colorful show , but not always strong. I feel the June, 1991 episodes are much richer. The Tommy story really worked at uniting the canvas. It's also interesting to see what the story is doing to Trisha, who is very self reflective and having a morality crisis as she secretly Hope's that Clay has killed Monty so that she and Trucker can keep Tommy. In the July episodes, Trisha is going to the jail and offering to help Clay get out in exchange for custody of Tommy in a move that makes her more and more Clay and Gwyn's daughter. It's a fascinating character exploration of the depths one will go to o achieve a goal. They ground it in conversations between Trucker and Trisha about the loss of baby Ben and not properly grieving the death of that child. I wish this level of introspection occured later in the year under Ryan Munisteri. I also was unaware that Carly and Clay married on the day that Ava and Paul were suppose to marry for the first time in 1991 (of the three times this occurs). Carly is really a trip. It didn't Dawn on me that Ally Rescott arrives in the midst of all this chaos, quite literally, showing up at some family event originally intended to be Paul and Ava's wedding reception, I assume. I also didn't realize that they had paired Matt Ford and Louie Slavinski so early in a father/son type dynamic. Bernie Barrows did so good in these type of relationships (especially later with Dinahlee), Marisol Massey is a campy level of unhinged when she is back on the story coming at Clay with a knife in Carly's presence. I enjoy it much more than I probably should. Bob Gunton as Barry Ryder, the mob boss targeting Paul, is a surprising move. I know Gunton from his work in The Green Mile, but in the early 1990s he was still appearing, or just stopped appearing, in Sweeney Todd so I guess this was a well know New York menace. The mob stuff seems a bit more tempered by summer of 1991, but still impacting the canvas. This is all just random musings that I will probably expound upon once I watch more of the episodes properly.

I've spent some time in 1990-1991 episodes mostly trying to timeline the episodes. Both set of recent episodes (June-July 1991 and October-December, 1990) pick up with other episodes the Random Episodes uploader has already put up. I haven'tswatched all of them yet, but some things have stood out when I'm skimming to figure out when episodes are from: Late 1990 is VERY heavy on the mob story, which I dont' think I knew. There are elements I really like such as Rio going undercover to work for Paul, Alex's investigation, and Yohanna Yonas (Stevie) is a stunning woman. There are clunky parts for me (Carly's backstory as Loren Wilcox that also seems to be tied to a some General Ramirez in San Felipe is giving Joe Hardy/Gene Palumbo General Hospital vibes). Colleen Quinn is fun as a more cunning, deceptive version of Carly before her more morally gray version I see for most of the 1991 - 1992. The sequence surrounding the reveal that AE was behind the defective plane parts is quite strong with Dane's henchman Robert making the connections, Dane rushing off to confront Cabot, and Cabot having a medical crisis. Cabot LINGERS in the hospital for quite a bit of time while random day players are murdered in the cover up. I don't think I was aware of the density of the story with all dead bodies piling up. Rocky's cheating story had more ramifications than I thought and it was nice that this wasn't a case of someone being set up (i.e. Karen Wexler in 1993 on General Hospital). Also, I think this leads to a later sexual harassment story, which is intriguing because now they've set up Rocky academically as not always honest. The Norma and Denny/Wally zombie stuff was odd until I realized these episodes are around Halloween and that Wally has been impersonating Denny. Norma having her own set shows the budgetary differences between 1990 and 2026.

I don't think the show was ever really intended to be a college soap. I know we've discussed this before, but there was not a strong emphasis on the college in those early episodes. There were stories set in the college, but not necessarily about the college. Roger's appointment to president was about political ambitions and pitting Jack's father vs. Lily's father as a layer of the Slater story and Garth positioned to be possibly a threat to Merrill / Roger's romance. All the college football stuff seemed to be background for Rita Mae and Billy's marital turmoil having Billy not fulfilling Rita Mae sexually while her husband surrounds himself with young studs. The opening story about the prostitution does hint at the kind of drama that could have been examined. Even the aborted AIDS storyline could have dovetailed into the issues of college funding with a conservative college board and backers. I do think Nixon had intended the Lorna / Doug storyline to be much bigger than it was even though it was only hinted at in the bible. Lorna accusing Doug of sexual misconduct. Additional, the drug ring story was also aborted. In addition, when FOX launched Tribes in 1990, Agnes Nixon was solicited for a quote on her thoguhts about a high school soap opera. Nixon bluntly stated that she personally didn´t know how to make that work because the characters would always age out of the high school. This would be the same with a college soap. Having attended a small state university in upper New England in the early 2000s, I can say the idea of the town vs. the college should have been a bigger deal. The idea of the monied students (and some of the poorer scholarship counterparts) against the everyday citizens of the town who may have been aggravated by the students privilege but dependent on them frequenting their business is a level of tension that could easily fuel drama. I hadn´t considered the EP element. That would make complete sense. I think it´s hard for me to judge whether or not the dismissals were warranted when there were so many iconic characters who came after the show's opening months who were incredibly signifcant to the story in the long run (Shana, Dane, Ava, Kate, Harry, Gwyn, Trisha, Steve). I think cutting Rita Mae and Billy was smart. I don't think they brought anything unique. I did like what I've seen of Rita Mae's affair with much younger man Tony Perrilli from the end of her run. Tom Lignon looks great jogging in place in his short shorts in some of the Italian clips, but that's not enough to build a storyline around unless your James E. Reilly. Also, I think how they handled Roger Forbes was smart. They recasted and tried to enhance the story by pairing Merrill with Warren Hodges, the DA who prosecuted Jack Forbes and was considering vying for the same open political seat that Roger was. I think John Shearin has that boyish charm that people associate with JFK, but Peter Brown had more an air of authority. I could see Peter Brown holding his own against Anthony Herrera's Dane, but Shearin less so. Leaving Roger presumed dead left the story thread closed enough to move forward, but open enough to revisit when it suited the story. On that note, shifting from Merrill Vochek to Shana Sloane was smart. I think Agnes Nixon's vision for Merrill Vochek was very provocative; she had no intention of settling down with Rgoer or any man. Her fears were rooted in her mother's death (in childbirth when delivering Merrill). In what is showing up in the Italian episodes, Merrill is more determined to land Roger for herself, which is not as interesting as I think Roger wanting Merrill and Merrill not wanting to setttle down and play house. This would have destroyed Roger's political career, whcih would have shifted him back to Anne. While Anne and Merrill were intiially friends, Shana and Anne were more acrimonious from fairly early on (at least when Callan White assumes the role). Pivoting the emergence of a stronger, business minded Anne in the wake of the arrival of her secret half-sister Shana after Anne's own issue of marital infidelity works well. Positioning PTSD sufferer Mike Donovan, Anne own's brief extramarital fling and Jim Vocek's best friend, as the centerpiece of their romantic tension was just smart. In addition, you have Dane Hammond, biological father of Anne's adopted son Jack by her college bestie Linda Henderson, Cabot's rival, and Shana's confidant, weaving his way in and out of their story with his own sense of law and justice against Dane's questionable gray morality. It feels a little bit tighter than the original storyline and fixed some of the issues in the bible (Anne's lack of prominence when her family is so prominent, for one). I don't think there was much use to keeping June Slater in a prominent role as a lot of her story would have paralleled Anne's (the alcoholism, starting over her husband's death). I do think it would have been neat to have her as a boarder at Kate's in 1984 as Ava sets out to snag Jack Forbes with June's story as a tale of caution for her. Maybe June could have been involved with Harry Sowalsky (June had a taste for the wrong men) and acted as a defacto mother to Steve with her own child still locked away in a hospital. I think I also would have given her a smaller position, maybe a secretary at AE and a talk to for someone like Curtis. I'd argue that Lily Slater should have come back in mid-1986 when Stacey and Jack are married with Stacey's pregnant with her first child and Ava and Curtis are on the verge of a divorce. Lily and Curtis reconnecting (instead of Curtis and Lotty) would have made more sense. I think Lily wouldn't be Gwyn's ideal choice for a bride so you could play the Gwyn / Curtis / Lily triangle. I also wonder if you could have done Steve / Lily as a distraction from Steve / Trisha instead of Steve / Cece. I think weaving the Donovans in and out was smart, but I don't think they should have been abandoned in the mid-1980s. I think Mike could have returned in early 1987 for the Nick Dinatos murder which could have pitted him against Shana while you could play Mike / Anne during the Harry / Anne / Gwyn triangle.

The Lily story plays out until the end of January, well past the airing of There's Something About Amelia, but the trial itself wraps up that week. In late January, Lily's alter tries to kill Jack at a cabin before she is sent to Oregon for treatment. Jennifer Ashe seems to depart in late January with possibly making two more appearances. In late Febraury, there is a note about Jack going to see June as she is selling the house. The summaries continue to mention Lily on occasion through late March when Jack is informed that Lily is not progressing well. I believe June returns to deliver that note. This occurs the same week, I believe, as Merrill's departure from Corinth for the news correspondents job in Washington, D.C. so contracts are up. While I agree that the network probably wasn't micromanaging the scripts at that level, I imagine part of the reason the show was not allowed to continue the story was so they could the "never before on television" angle to promote the film for awards, for which There's Something About Amelia won several. Its worth noting that as the Lily story ends, Ann and Roger disappear from the canvas about the same time and Patrick and Rose Donovan are shipped off to Florida for some time (I think they return sometime in the spring). By mid February, Jack is in charge of Lorna as she is hiding her pregnancy and the only other reference to Roger and Ann is a mid-March reference that they oppose Tony and Lorna's wedding plans, but I don't necessarily think they were onscreen for that. I do think there were story elements that were also revised because of the network's insistence. I believe the Stephanie Payne role in the Jonathan Maitalane / Edy Lester story was suppose to be a recast Merrill Vochek. Stephanie, if I recall correctly, was a journalist of some sorts who had been investigating the San Francisco murders and was helping Doug with the development of a television series. Merrill investigating Doug's wife for the murders would have carried a bit more weight and the impact on the Lorna / Jonathan leg of the story with Lorna and Merrill's history due to Merrill's affair with Roger and Lorna's attraction to Doug would have been more layered than what was played out onscreen. In the case of Marland not wanting to stay long, I always come back to something Richard Backus stated; Marland had expensive tastes. I think one of the few ways to make money in any industry is to shop around for new jobs to get a higher starting salary. I have to wonder if Marland chose job stability for insurance reasons as he got older.

Arthur fantasizing about Trisha is about a year later under Taggar and Guza. I believe they toy very briefly with a Arthur / Staige pairing in the fall of 1992 right before they wrote out Staige. I imagine that Arhur's story would have been some sort of Ugly Duckling tale where they would have made him handsome and probably paired him up with someone like Staige. Or maybe they were going to have Arthur fall for Casey before they settled on him and Ally. Walsh's writing for Ava was pretty bad. The first six months are basically the winding down of the Paul / Ava / Carly story and storyline limbo before they put Ava at Burnell's with Casey where they sorta tease a Casey / Ava flirtation before settling on Ava / Leo, which would have been a forgettable pairing had Taggart and Guza not thrown Shana into the mix. One of the few characters who were served well by Walsh I would say was Gwyn, but she has no story, just decent character writing. I like Buck and Stacey more than I thought I would, but I will say I do find the money story, at times, a little shallow. I think if they were going to delve deeper into Buck's need to be a provider based on the fact that his father had been a wanderer and the fact that Stacey was raised in a rather large, stable Irish Catholic household that I think there would be story to mine from that. I appreciated the Buck / JJ dynamic and that scene from March, 1994, where Buck tells Heather he is leaving breaks my heart. It just is often a very surface level story amplified by strong acting, emotional beats, and strong, moody background music. The more I've seen of Horan, he has grown on me. I think he does a good job playing a lot of Clay's pain and is saddled with a lot of byzantine backstory involving spies, espionage, and hypnosis. He is a real contender in those 1990-1991 episodes when his story is more grounded in the complicated relationship he had with Cabot and his layered romance with Gwyn (both Elizabeth Savage and Christine Tudor Newman). I believe Larkin Malloy appears as Clay appears from like January - July, 1992 and then returns in September with Dennis Parlato assuming the role in early October. I think the month gap starts and ends with Malloy, but I may be wrong. And speaking of recasts, I'm not hating what we are seeing of Robert Dubac, but its a very different version of the Alex character. I also haven't seen a whole lot of Randy Mantooth as Clay, and, to be honest, anything I would see would probably be biased based on the story that comes later. I don't think Clay was particularly kind to Rick as he rejects Gwyn's claim early on. I don't remember if I have seen much of Mantooth with Burke Moses' Curtis, but I don't think there was a lot of overlap with them either (maybe 6-8 months). You'd think there would be some juicy material with Clay romancing Curtis' ex-wife, but I don't know. By the time Ava and "Clay" marry, Burke Moses has been gone for a bit. I think there should be some overlap in time with Ann and Clay, but I'm never really clear when Callan White leaves. I think she returns briefly in 1990 for Trucker and Trisha's wedding or maybe it's Jack and Stacey's so she and Clay would be in town then. The Isabelle scene is from March/April, 1989, and can be found in the recent uploads. I think King and Taggart try to frame it is as "a mother knows her child," but personally it felt like a plot device to negate some of the hostility Cabot was bound to feel towards Ava for keeping quiet about "Clay" being Alex. Isabelle goes on and on about how she did it to keep her family from falling apart. It is a bit of a stretch, and bless Dabney for trying to sell it. Don't get me started on Clay is Tim Sullivan's son. It was such a bizarre story decision. I know when Walsh did the story on Riviera it was meant to negate an incest plot between an illegitimate son and the family's princess daughter. It also wasn't revealed until one of the final episodes. I could see how the reveal could have created real hostility for Shana and Clay, but I don't know what they were going to do with it as Shana is sidelined for most of 1992. I think there was some weight to be made about Clay being raised an Alden just like Jack was, but it was such an odd decision. This also climaxed during the rumored Haidee Granger ghost writing period so its possible we didn't see everything Walsh had originally intended. There is one decent scene from October, 1994, when Cabot gives the diner to Clay and Clay confronts Cabot about his paternity.

@EricMontreal22 Those articles are mostly familiar, but I think there was some new ones. I don't think I've ever read Nixon's long rant about trying to launch the show. I'll be honest, it's very unflattering. I did appreciate the tidbit about Lloyd Bridges and Geraldine Page ad libbing in that bedroom scene that got cut. Taggart and King seemed to enjoy each other's company. I find their work such a mixed bag. Some of their higher rated work (1989) is not my favorite, while their work under Babbin improves immesely especially when she lets them embrace more comedy, which they had also done under Hardy to a different extent. I struggle overall with the tone of Loving because sometimes it leans too much into the comedy. This was not a uniquely King / Taggart issue though. Marland seems like he's restrained, which can be annoying. The comment about not staying at one show too long definitely didn't age well. It's worth noting that he is either exaggerating the comment about not being able to talk about the incest story or he and Nixon blatantly ignored it. June Slater returns for a one-off appearance in March, 1984, to resolve the story saying that Lily is not progressing at a sastifactory rate and will be staying in the sanitarium indefinitely. Walsh's article is misleading in several ways. Most of the planned stuff doesn't happen (the romance for Arthur, Giff and Trisha's coupling never felt (to me) like it had that heat, Isabelle's secret storyline dies out much quicker) most likely because Walsh wasn't there the entire year like she is credited for. In addition, Fran Sears was the one behind the college revamp which is clear even in the Mary Ryan Munisteri episodes. Walsh is definitely behind the influence of the younger characters, but I would also be curious which characters she actually developed verse which characters were already in the pike when she arrived. I wish Mary Ryan Munisteri had been interviewed about her time on the series, but she was there such a short time.

Regarding the homophobia comment, it was eerie timing to hear this as I was thinking lately about how in late 1994 you have rumors that the show was going to bring on Steffi's father. Christopher Dunham was cast as Steffi's father in a November, 1994, flashback where Deborah basically accused the man of incest. I wonder if there were plans to bring him back, but I think the rumored history between him and Jean Le Clerc would have made that incredibly awkward.

No. Rose last appears in November, 1991. At Christmas, 1991, she and Patrick are said to b visiting Doug in California (this is the last mention of Doug that I know of). By Nixon's return, Patrick is no longer around, but he was never killed off. I truly believe Nixon forgot that she hadn't offed him in 1984 like she had planned in the bible. The article would be around the time that Larkin Malloy had gone out for a month on leave and Dennis Parlato took over. Parlato was originally a temp replacement and when Malloy was suppose to return, they fired him. There was also a period of time when Malloy was offscreen (late summer, 1992). When originally hired, Malloy had agreed to take the part of Clay because Addie Walsh had written for him on Guiding Light and he admired her work. 1992 has a big cast turnover, but it was under both producers. Granger would have recasted Celeste Holms with Patricia Barry. Let go both Roger Howarth and Eden Atwood. Dropped Christopher Cass as Jack. Dropped Richard Cox as Giff. Her hires would have included possibly Paul Anthony Stewart (he arrives very early in her run so its possible it was an Addie Walsh hire), James Carroll as Leo. Michael Gallardi as Armand Rosario. And negotiated the arrival of Jean LeClerc as Jeremy. The general impression I got from the Men of Loving interview was that Granger was not well liked, but I couldn't tell if that was, in part, because of the antics that use to go on backstage during Joseph Hardy's era based on some of the comments and stories the guys were sharing. Woodall leaves in February, and Haidee Granger's name doesn't appear in the credits until May. The press at the time claimed that Woodall wanted to go to college and his departure would line up with a second semester start. When Walsh comes in during January, 1992, the show had appeared to be gearing up for a Matt / Ally / Revel triangle wiht Matt and Revel as bandmates. So much of the Rescott story is dropped by Walsh and Matt fell into that story realm. Keith Pruitt, who was out, was also let go under Fran Sears, like Woodall, but the show jettisoned that part of the cast to make room for the college kids.

I believe Kane mentioned some of this already, but during the Buck / Stacey / Gwyn triangle was the last time I remember Gwyn's role being consistently mentioned. Gwyn comes to pick up Heather when Stacey goes on a date with Buck and Stacey snidely makes sure to call Gwyn grandma infront of Buck. I think they missed the boat. I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but I imagined a storyline in an alternate timeline where J.J. ended up blinded at the Rodeo bar, or whatever the country western bar in Corinth was, after being involved in an accident due to poor construction because Buck cut corners and hired a shady contractor who used substandard materials. Stacey would have become completely devoted to J.J. in his time of need and Heather, feeling alienated, would have drifted towards Gwyn. While Gwyn wouldn't purposely sabotage the Heather and Stacey relationship, Heather would slowly over time prefer to be with Grandma Gwyn who could indulge her every whim because she had the time and the money. The show spends the better part of 1992 trying to build a Stacey / Trucker dynamic. At one point, it seemed out of necessity as Noelle Beck was on another maternity leave and Trucker had little to do so they were investigating the mystery at the Tides together. Now, I wonder if this was also a backup plan in case Beck left. Christopher Cass is dumped in July, 1992, when everything seems to fall apart. At one point, I think there may have been plans for a Stacey / Trucker / Trisha / Jeremy quad as Jeremy had been presented as a pseudo love interest for Trisha in 1991 and her previous interloper, Giff Bowman, fell into the same role as an artist working at AU. I appreciate the kind comments. I think the changes are mostly superficial in the long run though, don't you agree? Granted, none of the Phil / Nick murder story happens, those characters remain for quite some time. Your recount did make me wonder more and more why there was never an attempt to bring back Amy to town after 1970, which made me realize there was no need for a mother figure for Phil because he had Ruth. I do think it would have made sense to bring Amy back in the late 1970s when Ruth had a biological child, Joey, and you had things like tension between Tara and Phil and Chuck over their son because that was a scenario she would have been familiar with in a slightly different way and may have had less sympathy for Tara than others. In addition, she probably would have made a nice complication to a Linc / Kitty / Nick storyline. To keep this Loving related, this dynamic sorta plays out with Jack / Dane / Roger. While Jack's paternity is glossed over in the bible with a mention of him being the son of a couple who were friends of the Forbeses, there must have been the idea that they would explore that dynamic at some point. Dane's presence overlaps with Roger's only briefly (about 2-3 months) before Roger is jettisoned off to Washington, D.C., before being presumed dead in the plane crash. Like Amy, I think Roger should have returned at some point possibly in 1986 after Dane had departed and the show was thick into Shana / Doug with Mike and Noreen gone. I would have positioned Roger's return with a mystery involving the paternity of Merrill's child, who would have popped up with Merrill when Merrill was investigating the Zona Beecham murder case. While I get the sense there wasn't enough character contrast between Amy / Ruth to maintain dramatic tension, though I could be wrong, I do think there was enough for Roger / Dane to have existed at a certain point. And it would have kept Ann from falling off into the abyss and never returning. I think that writers were deeply aware of the story timelines back in the day because they knew they needed to plot around them. I think that balancing act has been lost over the years. Also, with the revision to the pilot's conclusion (Amelia, not Johnny, was the head of the prostitution ring) derails a bit of the story for Merrill, Roger, and Ann as I recall Merrill was helping maintain the secret that Johnny had died by suicide. This secret could have allowed some non-romantic tension in that storyline that it probably could have used. Jane Elliott's A New Day in Eden character was a romantic interest for the show's adult lead, Bryan Lewis. The character's name Madge Whitehead is similar to Rita Lloyd's Loving character during the Jack paternity story in 1984, Millicent Whitehead. Millicent was the aunt of Linda Henderson's late husband Hemsely, who had revealed that Hemsely was impotent or infertile (which I'm now realizing might have been a way to tell part of the original Billy Bristow story) so it was impossible he was Jack's father. Now that you mention the Vince / Nikki story, I wonder if there was any intention of trying Lily's Trista personality with Tony Perrilli. In the Italian episodes, Tony admits he has moved to Corinth to be with his college friend, Jack Forbes, which I thought was an odd level of devotion, but I could see how Tony might be a bit of a Vince avatar for the story. I think Curtis and Trista/Lily was a smart move, but the dramatic tension between Curtis and Jack was never consistently utilized. It is presented quite nicely in some of those late 1985 episodes where Ava is cozying up to Curtis while married to Jack and still claiming Johnny as her son. The Ava reset in 1986 perplexes me because, it does make sense given Ava's horrible crime, but it takes her out of a story orbit she was firmly entrenched in. Her next couple of love interests (Judd Beecham / Tony Benedict) are fairly forgotten. The bible only alludes to, but doesn't full go into details about the events in the telefilm. The major revelation though is that Johnny Forbes was originally the head of the prostitution and was behind the murders. There doesn't seem to be an Amelia Whitley character at all. Johnny is described as a Joseph Kennedy type, a political mover and shaker with a bit of a shady criminal history. He was to die by his own hand and Merrill was part of the coverup to keep that information from the public. The impact on Roger's career is detrimental, but not completely decimating. I imagine some of this may have played into Nixon's original naming of the city.

@soapfave06 It's been a while, but I believe in an early story bible for All My Children Phil was accused of killing Nick, who I don't think he knew was his father yet. I could be very wrong, as I read the bible years ago, and All My Children is not really a show I am super interested in so I probably didn't pay much attention. I've been watching the November, 1991, episodes being posted this evening. Wonderful. I love this period of Loving. Fran Sears and Mary Ryan Munisteri were really giving the show a very distinct vibe with the introduction of the Tides, the bowling alley, Giff's art studio (which is definitely a recycled set), and the radio station. Giff talks with Dinahlee early in those clips about his three sons (a hockey player, a musician, and a 12 year old who wants to be a Marine). The Giff / Gwyn banter is awesome. Richard Cox is one of Tudor Newman's better male leads. It's a shame that Walsh decides to axe the pairing. Some of this I haven't seen in a while so I am making more connections with Ryan Munisteri's work on Tribes. They were definitely building a music storyline with Matt and Giff's (unnamed) son with the radio station being pulled into it. I know I've talked about it a lot, but the Matt Ford / Ceara Connor stuff is really well done. There are scenes at her office where Matt is putting up shelves to make some extra money and you have Matt recounting the issues with his stepfather. Ceara says Matt shouldn't feel shame for his stepfather's actions and you just want Ceara to accept that for herself. Jeremy is much more charming in 1991 visits and works as a faux romantic rival for Trisha's affections. I love the animosity between Giff and Ceara and the friendship between Giff and Dinahlee. Giff is big on the "we listen, we don't judge" train years before it was a thing. I miss this more colorful, offbeat artist version of Giff who quickly loses favor (and his flavor) when Walsh arrives. There's a really nice scene with Stacey and her mother where Rose warns Stacey that she is overthinking the Dinahlee stuff. Teri Keane looks very vibrant in her suit and well made up. I wish they had kept her around as well as Ed Bryce as Patrick. I think the slow burn tension between Dinahlee and Trucker while Stacey thinks Jack is eyeing up Dinahlee is fun. Lauren Marie Taylor plays it well trying not to fall too far into her paranoia, but still worried that she might not be enough for Jack. There is some later moments where Stacey is hosting the reception for Jeremy Hunter at the Alden mansion (where her and Jack have lived since they inherited the house after Cabot's death) and Taylor plays the insecurity of being the lady for the manor. It's probably the best material Cass and Taylor get as Jack and Stacey before Jack is written out. I know there are new uploads popping up and I think Celeste Holms' Isabelle should be appearing soon if the material stays in 1991.

The initial frame for the Lily / Garth based on the Love bible as @EricMontreal22 has pointed out. I admire how Nixon lays the groundwork for the story in research and sets herself up for an out (incest can just be psychological and not physical) if the network balks. Though, if I recall correctly, she still has Garth's physical assault of Lily act as the preceding incident for the murder. And, while Nixon does state that Garth dies in the fall, she sets up the revelation that June is the killer for July/August, 1984, as the cliffhanger for the Olympic break. Instead, the Olympic cliffhangers were Jack's motorcycle crash (shot on location I believe) and the revelation that Jonathan and Edy were husband and wife. I am curious when the multiple personalities angle was added as that isn't at all discussed in the bible. I thought the Curtis / Trista angle was a smart move to build conflict between Curtis / Jack, but that slowly evaporates over time. Some of the stuff involving Jack and Lily on the run and the murder trial seemed like a deviation of Nixon's original All My Children plans for Phil and Tara, which had Phil on trial for Nick Davis' murder. Though Dane Hammond seems to be a Marland version of Nick Davis. As we have discussed in the past, Marland was telling an incest story on A New Day in Eden around the time he would have been joining Nixon on pre-production. The scripts I have are from late in the shows run (the final 14 or so installments out of the 66). By that point, the incest story is going pretty strong. It is presented more as a mystery as Logan Clayborn has arrived in town after being outcast with his mother (I think her name was Shirley) many years earlier. Logan had tracked down the man his father, prominent attorney Emmett Clayborn, had claimed had had an affair with Shirley, and the man (I want to say his name was Ham) had informed Logan that he had never slept with Shirley. Emmett despised Logan and, when Logan got closer to the truth, Emmett violated his daughter, Logan's sister Cynthia (played by future Lily Slater Britt Helfer) before fleeing Eden himself. In the rape scene, Cynthia is dragged off screen by Emmett wearing her nursing uniform and, when the scene picks up she is now wearing just her robe. Logan never discovered the truth, but, in the finale, Logan ended up in a locked room at the Clayborn mansion. The suggestion is that the person with the gun was Emmett, but it is never stated directly. In the meantime, the show was drawing Cynthia Clayborn closer to Jack Wagner's Clint Masterson. Clint was the source of romantic tension between Miranda Stevens and Pam Evans, who had the poolside lesbian encounter. I don't know how ladies' man Clint would have handled a potentially frigid Cynthia. In terms of Loving, I imagine some of this played out as the mystery of why Garth and Lily were so close. I also think that we would have seen some of that potential tension over Lily's feelings about her sexuality after the trial had she continued. I believe that the implication was Curtis and Trista/Lily went to bed. It would have been quite a source of tension if Curtis had slept with Lily and Lily struggled to be intimate with Jack. I also imagine some pushback on Lily's part when Jack started to explore his family origins given how horrible hers were. I also wish that they had revisited the Slater mansion. It seemed to be a decent size home and I imagine it would have been a hard sell with it being the site of a murder. I always wanted someone with ambitions to buy the house (like Rita Mae) looking to elevate themselves in society while completely ignoring the spectre of Garth's life and death.

Whitesell, in turn, was most likely responding to Joanna Lee's comment a few years earlier talking about how Search for Tomorrow needed to be an hour soap in order to survive and was building the show to be that size and scope. As @DRW50 mentioned, they are available. I know Marcantel edited the original interviews so there may be comments that weren't included. I remember Christopher Cass referring to Haidee Granger as "the South African" and that conversation seems to be truncated. I like what I've read about and seen of late 1984-early 1986, for the most part. The arrival of Trisha, Steve, and Gwyn through the AE board meeting / the double wedding in Februray, 1986 seems enjoyable. Things go off the rails by the time we get to Zona's murder.

Morgan Fairchild would still be a recognizable face (no jokes intended) to the televeision audience from her appearances on Roseanne as well as the Old Navy ads that wiki says started up in 1994. I think she was still considered a get who also had daytime experience. @CrazySexyQ I think Sydney's story picks up around March, 1996, when Jared comes back from the dead. Her stories remain very disjointed. There was something about a comatose daughter of her chauffeur and her brief martial rape plot. It seems to have more purpose even if it remains mostly underdeveloped or incomplete.

Did Trucker cite his grand love for Trisha as the reason he couldn't move on with Tess? Or was it just because she was a lying manipulator who was off limits once a bunch of her schemes were revealed? I think what made the Trisha stuff tedious (at times) was that we knew Trisha was alive and off canvas. A person struggling with the death of their spouse as an obstacle for a new romance is the framework for great character driven writing, but the preponderance of story threads involved made it a bit much. The gaslighting, the near misses in Rome, and the general overall ongoing mourning were too much combined. Didn't they try Angie and Cliff briefly on All My Children? Or was Cliff no longer a lead by that point? As I am thinking about all of this, I could see potential conflict with the Angie / Trucker dynamic regarding Frankie, Christopher, and the Aldens. If Frankie continue his Jesse, Jr., act and became involved in more trouble, Christopher could have been caught up in the crossfire (not literal, but maybe Frankie does something that leads to Christopher getting hurt in something like a car accident) and the Aldens want to swope in a take away custody of Christopher. Or if they had continued the initial AIDS story replay and had Angie worried about being infected after the needle stick, and someone within the Alden clan being judgemental and worrying about the impact that would have on Christopher. All of this is a million times more compelling than anything I saw on The City. My main problem with The City is the lack of humanity. So many of the characters are so harsh constantly fighting with one another with few moments of quiet intimacy. I know there were friendships among the characters, but everything surrounding the story was so bleak, even in the final months where the show was stronger. I think the idea of taking Christopher McKenzie, who would have essentially be a country boy by the time Trisha would get him in the late 1990s, would be struggle being in the big city and that perspective would be compelling for a younger character. I could see Christopher just running all over the city like he would have in Maine and have no sense of any of the dangers. I would have paired him in a brotherly relationship with Tommy Domeq, who's mother Abril would be tied to the modeling agency. Christopher's arrival would also cause conflict for Tess and Buck as Buck could struggle with his brother's death. Down the line, Trisha could wnat to keep Christopher away from Tess and Buck when she discovered some of her past with her brother Curtis. Or Trisha struggling to maintain control of Christopher when he was more ideologically alligned with Uncle Buck. This could bring out that bitchier side that we saw on occassion, and play into the idea of Trisha replaying the Clay/Gwyn parenting dynamic. The Trisha / Danny angle would have been intriguing as it would have also provided conflict for Alex / Jocelyn. Trisha's imposter father and Danny's lawyer sister would either have a united front against Danny or Jocelyn could have some resentment towards Trisha as she could end up taking time away from Jocelyn when Alex would rush to his daughter's aid. I would take the opportunity to explore the fact that Alex and Jocelyn were made up of a sexual abuse surivor and an older man, unitnetionally replaying a bit of the trauma dynamic that Jocelyn had endured when her father handed her off to his friends. I also just like the idea that Trisha could end up with the loft which was originally the Alden mansion, correct?

I can see why they would want to keep Amelia Heinle around, but, as you said, without Cooper, there really isn't much to do. I don't have any use really for what I've seen of Steffi in the final months of Loving or the beginning of The City. Her role in Gwyn's demise is poignant and I'm not sure anyone else on the show could have sold that as well as Heinle does (I think even Noelle Beck would have been a hard sell though it would have been interesting to see). The one-two punch of losing Cooper and Casey in the span of two months was a brutal final blow. The replacement crew for young men were very green or playing characters who were so disgusting it was really hard to connect to. In my mind, Janie was poised to be the next Ava Rescott / Erica Kane / Rachel Davis. I felt like Nixon was finally getting to do what she had been rumored to want to do with Ava when Roya Megnot was in the role and combine the Erica storyline and the Carla storyline. Elise Neal had charm and played well against everyone on the canvas she interacted with. I would have loved to seen how she would have proceeded. As has been stated, Janie's death seems to be used to propel the Curtis story when they decided they weren't killing off Dinahlee. And this was a huge mistake. As has been mentioned, people cared about Jessica Collins, not Dinahlee. The best modern day comparison I can make is to Ariane Zuker on Days of our Lives, who played a character who was sorta all over the place in terms of stories (often bad) but made the character work. Elizabeth Mitchell was too dry to sell the character. By 1993, Trisha was a cornerstone character with so many of the shows characters tied to hers. Her parents were present, her grandmother, her husband, her brother, and her best friends. On a half-hour show, that's such a significant chunk of the canvas. Her absence was going to be such a glaring part of the canvas. I would argue characters like Phillip Spaulding and Bo Brady had similar impacts on their families/shows when they were gone in the 2000s and 2010s. With that said, they should have acted sooner to replace her either literally or metaphorically. My suggestion would be to bring back Lorna Forbes to fill the role of the Alden granddaughter female lead. I would have cast Cali Timmins in the role and had her swope into town freshly divorced from Zach Conway ready to take on the world. Lorna going after Jeremy might have worked on several levels and leaned into a dynamic that was already complicated between Ava and Lorna. Gwyn could have mothered Ann's daughter, and Curtis could have used an ally.

It means something, but I am not entirely sure what. I have a script from a month earlier and its the same credits you posted. I went and checked yesterday before I posted about the August date again because I wasn't sure if I had just missed Nixon's name earlier. But the credits read as I've stated for August 30: Written by McCarthy and Walsh with Story Consultant: Agnes Nixon. I'll get a screen shot for you in a little bit. Loving's writing credits are hard to pin down at times. We have Paul Anthony Stewart claiming there was no headwriter in the summer of 1992, but that is not reflected onscreen. I would be curious to see if anyone has a script with just Walsh and McCarthy listed without Nixon's name anywhere on it. This sounds fairly reasonable. I don't think there was any way to really end Trucker/Trisha's story on a happy note with Trisha in limbo. I much rather they just gave Dinahlee/Trucker a happy ending and called it a day. There were enough other characters in that presumed dead category that left Loving with story problems. I don't think we ever got bodies for Roger Forbes or Jack Forbes. In Jack's case, I do think a body was identified by Clay, but he was at the height of his schemes at that point. Dinahlee dying is what I assumed was the original plan as well because Janie wasn't even in town when Ava's predictions occurred. I don't know why they would keep Robert Tyler when they knew that Jessica Collins was going to depart. If Tyler stayed an extra six months, wouldn't that have brought his original exit to August, 1994, which was about the time that Collins should have been leaving. If they recast Trisha, keeping Tyler for six months makes some sense. Otherwise, not so much. I'm not doubting the did this, it's just such a bizarre move. I'm nearly positive the casting call in 1994 for the role that Elizabeth Mitchell got was written to be Dinahlee's cousin, but that may have just been a cover for the recast.

It's funny. I will have to rewatch that interview because I could have sworn Marcantel complained about the 1993-1995 period saying that things felt so much more plot driven than it had in the 1980s. Maybe he enjoyed the Curtis in the cage stuff and I blocked it out lol. I remember because I was disappointed he felt that way because I found the Nixon period mostly enjoyable, but, in reflecting, a lot of Curtis' material in that period is bizarre. When I was looking for those end credits from August, 1994, yesterday, there was Marcantel's Curtis at the crash site dowsing the plane in gasoline, and I'm like ok I get it. I thought the gaslighting story allowed Curtis to be a villain without making his actions too evil. He didn't know Trisha was alive so it was messed up, but, ultimately, he wasn't wrong. I also try to convince myself that some of Curtis having PTSD induced crash outs was a mix of the truth and deception like that Curtis probably was always struggling to keep it together, but that he would let go in order to emotionally manipulate Dinahlee and Trucker. Honestly, they should have bit the bullet in 1994 and just recasted Trisha. I just read a news account of Shana and Leo's departure. The show was claiming that they had no story for Shana and Leo until Patti could start to show outward symptoms of the developmental delays which was why they were being let go. When Shana and Leo leave, I'm nearly positive that it looks like Patti is on track developmentally, though they could have revisited it down the road. Also, saying there was no story was a cop out given Cabot's impending return and Ava gaining control of Burnell's. That was all material that would have kept Shana and Leo in the thick of things through the end of 1994. Nixon's run had more pop ins from former characters, but I don't remember the interconnectiveness being much different than it had been in the previous year. Nixon had such a huge canvas. Casey and Ally flounder under Nixon. I thought Casey's mental health crisis / drug addiction under McCarthy and Walsh was one of their strongest stories. There are definitely parallels between Jeremy / Gilbert and Jonathan / Keith. When discussing this with you yesterday, it dawned on me that Nixon / Walsh / McCarthy basically are overseeing the show for most of late 1993 to early 1995. While we usually see Marland's name for 1983-1985, we also have more documentation to suggest that it would be more accurate to say Doug Marland & Agnes Nixon for 1983-1985 as we have outlines like the Jonathan story that start during the period preceding Marland's departure. As I've stated, most of the Gilbert / Jeremy stuff doesn't work for me. It's very broad until the end, as I recall, but I really enjoyed the climax when Alex shoots Gilbert and the implication awas that Alex went to far putting Ava in the middle. LeClerc should never have been brought over to Loving in my opinion. If Richard Cox wanted to leave after a year, they should have recast Giff. Nixon dumped a lot of what Taggart and Guza had set up with Angie and Frankie. I'm pretty sure the Angie / Trucker stuff started under Taggart and Guza before Nixon reset the story for Trucker / Dinahlee and then introducing Charles for Angie. They also seemed to be teasing a romantic tension between Alimi Ballard's Frankie and Amelia Heinle's Steffi which would have been very interesting given the conflict between Cooper and Frankie at the time. I didn't necessarily see where they were going to go with Trucker and Angie nor was I overly interested. I was curious about Frankie and Steffi.

It's possible the change from Marland to Nixon led to the change in Curtis. Come to think of it, Curtis is defanged even a bit under Marland when they pair him with Colby Cantrell, Rita Mae's niece who worked as a buyer for Burnell's. Curtis' pornographic past (he financed films when he was in Europe) came back to haunt him when model Sasha Hale came to town as she had started in one of his films. Colby didn't like this and she ended up involved with Jonathan Maitlane or Keith Lane. I can never remember which. Watching the December, 1985, and January, 1986, material recently uploaded from around the wedding of Ava and Curtis, I get the sense that Ava was suppose to be the love of Curtis' life, in his eyes, but that he couldn't really tame her. Even at this point, Curtis is presented as slightly complicated as he has been chasing after and comforting his cousin's wife even though Jack and Stacey have run off to California to start a new life with little Johnny. By the time we get to Lottie, Curtis just seems more like watered down. Regarding Shana and Leo, I appreciate the fact that they are two very different people with strong personalities. I can see the battle of the sexes element, but I don't think that it negates the fact that Leo is a male chauvinist, and I'm pretty sure this is stated onscreen. What I will say is that it is a true battle for the sexes; we aren't expected to agree with Leo's stance on things nor is Shana a perfect person. In pursuit of having a child, Shana has chosen Leo for his looks, despite his personality, because he's attractie and she wants good genes. While this is never directly addressed, Shana's pursuit of creating a perfect child, whether intentional or not on the part of the writers, ends up being disrupted by the possibility that Shana's baby might have developmental delays. I liked that Shana ended up having power over Leo when she co-signed the loan and he had only so many days to pay it back. What I should have clarified was that while some of the attitudes that Guza may have had male characters exhibit later on General Hospital, the tone and plotting was quite different. I am always left feeling that Leo feels the way he does and that the writers do not share his vision. In addition, the women in peril genre was big in TV movies in the era and I've seen much more disturbing material on Levinson and Riche's General Hospital from the same period. Leo just being an egotistical jerk doesn't really hit the way the Quartermaine brothers slut shaming a childhood sex abuse survivor. Shana and Leo's material is never offensive me. Honestly, I found Ava's antics funny at times in this story, but trying a bit too hard at others. While I hear what you are saying about changing perspectives, though I think, especially with what has come out about Joe Stuart and the general work environment in the 1980s in the Loving interviews from several years back, that examining some of the work through the lens of how gender is represented is not unwarranted. I would also agree with you that modern cancel culture does lead to dismissive attitudes towards material that may be less problematic than necessary. I think Leo's point of view is realistic, and I wish they had maintained it because characters with varying viewpoints is the natural source of drama.

@EricMontreal22 Mary Ryan Munisteri (Loving's headwriter from August, 1991-early January 1992) was headwriter for Ryan's Hope for several months (looks like October 1982-February 1983) and Tom King and Millee Taggart (Loving's headwriters from September, 1988 - May, 1991 and then Taggart solo until August) were at Ryan's Hope from 1985-1987 (maybe March for both months). Nixon departs as headwriter in August, 1994. I just checked I watched an episode dated August 30 or 31 where Clay begs Steffi to stay with him on the eve of the Alden Enterprises anniversary party, Dinahlee starts to miscarry after the plane crash with Jessica Collins still in the role, and Cabot is on the verge of revealing that the Aldens stole the formula for Lady Alden soap from the Sowolskys. In the episode end credits, Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh are credited as headwriters. Nixon is, as you later asked, listed as a story consultant. McCarthy and Walsh were the associate headwriters for Loving when Nixon was headwriter in 1993-1994. The end up giving a lot of the previews during this time period. While I wouldn't argue that Shana and Leo occasionally had a nice scene under Nixon, the meat of that story was under Taggart and Guza. I think Shana and Leo suffer the most under Nixon because they go from have deeply complicated characterizations (which I suspect Guza, in part, based on some of the Julie / Mason dynamic on Santa Barbara as well as some of his later misogynistic writing for characters like Sonny and Jason on General Hospital). The show never commits to whether or not Patti has developmental issues, which I think was more about the show being afraid that once they said she had something that they would have to stick to it. Leo, who was deeply misogynistic, was more insecure under Nixon, which I think could have been linked together, but never really was. The business loan element of their story is completed abandoned, which ignored a very intense power dynamic that was created by putting Shana in charge of Leo's business given Leo's sexism. A lot of the complexity of their relationship evaporates within weeks of Nixon's arrival. I think the short arc where Leo struggles toaccept Patti is powerful, but should have been part of a much larger story. I'm not the biggest fan of the Curtis in the cage stuff. It's very campy and homoerotic (Thom Christopher would later embed some of the same subtext to the Carlo/Cristian brainwashing sequences on One Life to Live. The show got skewered in the press for having the sole Middle Eastern character on daytime being a villain. In Nixon's defense, Dante needed to appear to resolve the Curtis / Tess/ Buck backstory, but it just doesn't work for me. I do appreciate Tess sacrificing herself at the tail end of the initial arc in a rare moment of selfishness. I suspect Nixon wanted to bring back Dante later so that's why there was the vague resolution. I am not even sure if the Gilbert stuff starts under Nixon, or, if it does, its in like her literal final episodes. As I stated earlier, all three parties are basically involved with the show between the two writing regimes, so it doesn't really matter who is credited for what as there seems to be a sort of overlapping creative force until Brown and Essensten arrive. I don't like the early Gilbert / Jeremy stuff, but I thought the final pieces once the show gets Ava and Sandy locked in the church with Gilbert is compelling stuff. For the most part, I enjoy Nixon's run. I know @DRW50 has explained (validly) why he doesn't enjoy the Egypt / Ava murder mystery, which I do enjoy. @Kane has also made some analysis of that period regarding the story structure where a story will dominate for several weeks and then be ignored for a long stretch. I would also argue Nixon does a lot of chem testing which often shifts the story directions a little too quickly. For example, within four months, we go from Gwyn / Buck to Gwyn / Clay to Gwyn / Jeremy. The last shift wouldn't have been terrible if they had built a true quad around Clay / Gwyn / Jeremy / Tess who all had some connections to one another. I loved what Nixon did with Steffi by having her become a model, which brought out a softer side of Tess, before having her develop an eating disorder and being pimped out by her broke status conscious mother Deborah to Clay while later falling for Cooper. Cooper and Steffi investigating the Cradle Foundation after Clay and Deborah's surprise wedding was a great sequence as well. I loved Curtis gaslighting Dinahlee and Trucker into thinking Trisha was alive because, after all, she was. I didn't love Curtis' mental illness/PTSD story because I felt it was wrong for the character. It's hard to rectify early 1980s spoiled Curtis (Marcantel 1.0) with mid 1980s softened Curits (Ashby/Moses) as well as late 80s / early 90s romantic lead (Albers). Once you get to 1993 Curtises, the characters has just lived too many lives. I also liked the suggestion the show was going to revisit Stacey / Curtis in 1994 after Stacey punched out Curtis at Shana and Leo's wedding. As we get more of the 1990s, I will say I am enjoying Jacqueline Babbins' messier Loving more and more even though it is flawed and imperfect. And some of the post-Marland, Nixon led material that has popped up on the Random Episodes channel is stronger than I anticipated. Though from the private listings of Loving episodes a few years back, I remember not hating what I saw from June, 1985 until the big AE board meeting in February, 1986, barring the Jonathan is the devil stuff.

I don't particularly enjoy the spy aspect of the Clay / Alex story. Watching some of those early clips posted in the Random Episodes series, I do appreciate some of the character work in the story and find James Horan much more compelling than I originally thought. The whole thing operates on a level of surreality with everyone in Clay's world acepting that this man is in fact their son, father, and ex-husband. In a way, it sorta plays into similar themes of the show's earliest episodes where characters like Curtis and Lorna felt threatened by Jack because he was adopted, and, in their eyes, an outsider. In a grand sense, it is dramatically rich scenario, but it quickly devolves into the Maine mystery involving a bullseye, a corrupt local deputy, and hypnotic mind control. The Rusty story is equally clunky involving ties across the canvas to Warren (the Nick DInatos role) and Jenny as well as Aja. None of it works well for me because it feels so out of place, but where it doessucceed is towards the end when Rusty attempts to gaslight his daughter-in-law Liza in order to break up Liza and Travis' marriage. Rusty emotionally manipulates everyone involved and Liza is smart enough to see through his act as well as smart enough not to call him out until she has enough evidence to prove Rusty is guilty without a doubt. The period where Randolph Mantooth is just Clay seems fine enough, but so little of 1986-1987 seems strong, though there is always potential. I actually don't hate Curtis / Dinahlee / Clay, though I feel it would have been stronger with a different actor in the Curtis role, more involvement from Ava who had connections to all parties involved, and a bitter Trisha around to cluck about it. I also enjoyed Curtis / Dinahlee / Trucker, but didn't love how we had to see the deconstruction of Curtis in order for that to happen. I do think it would have eventually been a Stacey / Curtis / Dinahlee / Trucker quad and I would have enjoyed that. James Carroll would have worked well as Curtis. I think Ava / Curtis (James Carroll) would have had more legs than Ava / Leo did prior to Shana's arrival in the story. I was looking at the Ryan's Hope wiki page to see when Joe Hardy left that show, and those dates were also removed by the same poster. I don't think we have much for definitive facts regarding Addie Walsh and Haidee Granger. Years ago, the Haidee Granger wiki page stated Walsh left the show in an argument with Granger leaving Granger to ghost write the show. A summer 1992 SOD article has Paul Anthony Stewart lamenting that the show has no headwriter that summer. The Cooper sexual abuse story has been more conjecture on my part. In July 1992, there seems to be a major shift across the canvas including the Cooper / Selina story. After spending weeks alluding to Cooper experiencing abuse, it was stated onscreen that Cooper instigated the encounter and we were left to assume this was accurate. In September 1994, within 2 months of Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh taking over, there is a very well done scene between Steffi and Cooper in the Alden barn where Cooper revisits the Selina story, and Steffi outright asks if he was abused and Cooper says he was. It felt very significant to the characters rather than the story as it was righting a wrong. Nixon's period in the 1990s is definitely complex in terms of story and characters as well as some of the significant shifts. Guza and Taggart's initial months had been very compelling, but starts to unravel by the summer. In some ways, the Tess / Curtis / Buck setup seems reminscent to the story involving Alex and Clay with two men involved in war being involved in a situation involving someone being duped. I didn't hate it by the time Tess / Clay briefly become a thing, but it isn't a super rich story. In addition, I found some of the custody stuff involving Tyler a bit tedious. While I loved the Shana / Leo story involving the loan and the baby, the Ava / Jeremy off shoot was odd. It sorta worked, but it never would have worked long term. I don't know what the long-term plan for Angie and Frankie was, but Frankie was more compelling under Taggart / Guza than under Nixon, in my opinion. Nixon makes some smart story shifts (Tess and Steffi thrive under Nixon), but I also think she made some very foolish moves (I don't like Nixon's watered down Shana / Leo story nor Ally and Casey's lack of story).

I think the original plan for the Ned / April story did involve Kelly. I think Kelly / Rob / Ned are all on at the same time and then possibly Kelly / Ned / April. I believe Teri Polo's Kirsten essentially was slotted into the Kelly role. I believe this was also when they had the original Dave Hindman around for the storyline involving his inability to read and the coach pushing him on the basketball team anyway. I appreciate that Nixon appeared to be trying something different with April in that she seemed to benot more of a high end call girl. I just don't think there were many elements of that story that could have worked given the characters involved, the actors, and the general storyline. If you look at the edit history, you can see them, but a good number were inaccurate anyway. There is some early episodes in the list with Clay's origin story, just no Zack or Lorna, from waht I recall, which was a blessing. During the Men of Loving interview, Randolph Mantooth said he was hired to play Clay Alden. Seven or so months into the role, the exectuviutive producer came up to him and told him he was an imposter. If it was the plan all along, Mantooth wasn't in on it. The initial Clay storyline is very similar to what Ralph Ellis wrote for Rusty Sentell on Search for Tomorrow in his 1982 run. The presumed dead father from a wealthy family (in Rusty's case, by marriage) who was recruited to work with a spy network only to return from the grave to be a conflict for those around him. I'm also never completely clear on how Marland's Clay died. Was it in France? I know later when they are changing from Christopher Marcantel to Linden Ashby Curtis goes to South East Asia to look for Clay so I guess there was some changes at some point. I think a big source of the purging of the continuity is Haidee Granger. It is rumored she ran off Addie Walsh and I feel like the original Burnell's story in 1992 was for Curtis to return running the department store and romancing Ava. Nothing about the Phantom of Burnell's story made sense with the established history of Burnell's as an Alden property. Also, even the cop uniforms change after 1991. More modern and less like the outfits you saw Mike Donovan in.

Going back to 1986 for a moment. I don't remember if I've written anything in this thread or just privately to Reverend Ruthledge, but the Lorna / Zach / Jane / Kelly seems like a watered down conglomeration of Guiding Light's Meta / Joe / Kathy and Kathy / Robin / Mark / Meta / Ruth. I think where the Loving version fails at its core is the Guiding Light version was using an intricate network of characters who had story tied to the current situation. In Meta's case, the trial was for the murder of her child's father, who had caused said child's death. In addition, Meta was an outcast, to an extent, within her own family unit. In the later Light story, the history of Meta / Joe / Kathy and Robin's parentage both were, at the very least, ghosts that haunted the present day and allowed for the events within the story to ricochet across the canvas. None of that seems to happen in the Loving story. Like Meta, Lorna is a model who had got pregnant by a man who wasn't hers and didn't realize the child. While Meta gave her child up for adoption, Lorna aborted her child. While Lorna wasn't an outcast like Meta, her low self worth manifested into manipulative behavior that caused chaos within her own family. Former daddy's girl Lorna would fall for an older man and marry him, and, like her father, an attorney. I think the show would have gotten more mileage out of the Zach role being filled by Clem Margolies, who was also Roger's friend, as that would have caused more internal strife within the Alden / Forbes clan and would have allowed people to directly comment on Lorna's daddy issues. In a perfect world, I would have gone a step further and had Clem return to Corinth for the murder after having a brief marriage to Merrill Vochek and the Kelly role being filled by a young child Merrill and Clem claims is theirs, but would later be revealed to be Merrill's child by the late Roger Forbes. I think it would be easy to blame the failure of the story on poor casting. O'Hara Parker has none of the bite Susan Walters had in the role of Lorna, but the writing is also not there either. While Walters did tend to lean into pain, rather than Lorna's malice, Walters' Lorna was a more complex character. I don't think Walters could have salvaged the story, either, to be honest. I don't think John Gabriel was right for the role of Zach, who I think needed to have more energy than Gabriel did in the role to entice Lorna. Deborah Allison's Jane seems such a neurotic mess, and not in the fun way. And poor Kathleen Fisk was too young, or appeared too young, to make Kelly anything more than childish rather than spoiled. It does seem like, at one point, there was more legs to the story than I was aware. In one of the episodes online, Jane announces she is leaving during Kelly's disappearance story, and she announces she is off to Milwaukee to stay with her cousin and revive her advertising career. And this is how Jane the ad woman and Lorna the model would have remained in conflict professionally. I wonder if any of this had been planned with Warren Hodges and his daughter. I could see some of this working out with Merrill Vochek in the Lorna role, but when Noreen assumes the part, that dynamic would have been different. In the original Bible, Nixon makes it clear Merrill wasn't the type to settle down in the long run so I could see this being a difficult dynamic with a manw it's a daughter.

The channel releasing the Loving videos has Christmas, 1985. It was nice to see some of the Johnny Forbes story. I don't think there is anything more than one video so far (#78) from that period. I do wish we saw the Christmas at the Rescotts since it sounds like Sheri and Tug Watley are in town, but it is hard for me to tell if that was even something they showed onscreen. I did chuckly how they had Isabelle make the point that (bought) Johnny Forbes looks nothing like his parents only for Cabot to claim a stake on the child's appearance given that Jack's adoption was well known. I haven't seen all of the video, but it looks like one of the other Beecham brothers is in town for Christmas (maybe Judd). It's so bizarre to me how the show quickly threw out Linc, Zona, and Rebekah and shortly after brought Judd back. I wonder if Nixon had plans to bring Rebekah back because Rebekah vs. Ava is the real story, especially if you go down the rabbit hole of having Gwyn trying to "reform" Ava to make her acceptable to Rebekah to keep Ava / Curtis apart only for Curtis to be further drawn to the new Ava. 1986 is such an odd year. The best material is Gwyn's Monkey's Paw esque story where her arranging Steve Sowolsky's release on the contingency that her daughter Trisha and Steve stay apart has landed Trisha in the arms, and bed, or gangster Nick Dinatos. Gendleman doesn't completely work for me as Nick; he masters the sleaze but not the danger. He would work better in the Gus role, the henchman. Trisha popping uppers and basically being forced to go to bed with Nick is unpleasant, mostly because, like almost everythign else in 1986, there is no long term ramifications. I do like Gwyn having to admit that Steve / Trisha were preferable to Trisha / Nick, though honestly Nick seems more like the type that Gwyn might actually go to bed with. I have no idea what the point of Jack's brain tumor story was. Maybe it was a contract negotiation tactic? I know that when Perry Stephens leaves in 1990, it is of Stephens accord. He stated in the summer of 1990 he was getting married and intended to leave the show unless he was made an offer he couldn't refuse. I wonder if the plan was to dump Jack if they needed to in 1986. In late 1990/early 1990 episodes (low 80s I believe), we see a hint of what I assume is Jack's exit story which is Stacey reporting that Jack went down to San Felipe to investigate General Ramirez, who they suspect is behind the faulty airline parts, and has disappeared. I imagine when Jack returns in January, 1991, it is Christopher Cass in the role. I do like that there is a hint of a softer version of Ava, as played by Roya Megnot, in the aftermath of the baby Johnny story. I think that was smart. And Megnot did very well in her 1990 appearances as a version of Peluso's more mature Ava that I wish they had skipped Alex / Ava and tried something different in the late 1980s (mainly a Curtis / Ava redux or Ava / Rick). It was nice seeing a blonder Dorothy Stinette as Rose supporting Stacey during the birth of J.J. It's a shame how quickly the Donovans were deconsturcted, and how much of their return visits were often lost to history until recently. The show maintained a lot of that sort of quiet continuity into the 1990s. I was shocked to hear Ava try to track down Jack because Judd needed papers signed for Forbes Construction. I believe Dane is back in control of Forbes in those 1990 episodes or maybe it's just mentioned during Rick's condo storyline in 1989-1990. On that note, there really is such a line in the sand once the college kid part of Fran Sears reset occurs in 1992. I feel like a lot of old Loving is lost after Walsh arrives. Det. Hindman is last seen in 1991. As are Rose and Patrick Donovan. I don't think Forbes Construction is around either. We do get some returns (Alex, Curtis, Sheri), but there seems like 1992 could be used a demarcation point for the show. It's great seeing more 1991. I think it brings us almost to the last episode of Jacqueline Babbin's run. I believe I have an episode several days later where Fran Sears is credited. I haven't watched all of the 1991 stuff, but it sounds like Howie Miller, the district attorney, is suggesting that even though Monty did in fact kill himself with the overdose, it was most likely someone in the family who switched the vials. I hope the uploader continues.

Carly does have a lot going on in these final days of Millee Taggart / Jacqueline Babbin, though I suspect the show is probably Milee Taggart / Fran Sears by the end of the last batch of clips. Paul's accident was clearly meant to heighten Paul's connection to Michael as he was unlikely to have a child afterwards, but that might have been a Mary Ryan Munisteri addition. Carly's role as Tommy's stepmother was set to be explosive between the relationship between Abril and Carly and any movement in the Michael story. I do think Flynn / Carly / Paul / Ava becomes a tighter quad and centers Ava more though I feel like we've seen more of Ava scheming in some of those May 1991 episodes. I also think the show missed an opportunity by not exploring the conflict more between Paul / Ava / Alex having Ava involved with her new criminal beau and her cop ex-husband. Ultimately, Fran Sears was going with the college revamp, which she announced even before the arrival of Addie Walsh and the big 1992 reset. It is now dawning on me, but I suspect that Mary Ryan Munisteri might have been hired because of Tribes and how Sears ultimately would have wanted a stronger youth appeal with the college set. So I am curious how that went wrong and why we got the swift shift to Addie Walsh. Based on Tribes, I think the youth set would have been Matt Ford, Revel Bowman (musician), Ally Rescott, and Hannah with a Matt / Ally / Revel triangle while Revel and Matt were band mates with young man that had supplied Matt with drugs in prison. Most of this still played out (albeit very quickly and with Revel's role filled by James, a random recurring player who was swiftly abandoned) and I suspect, once Revel / Ally and Hannah / Matt were couples, we would have gotten Ally / Revel / Giff with Ally faking the pregnancy during Bonnie and John Rescott's (mostly offscreen) divorce. I don't think anything would have salvaged the pregnancy story, but Munisteri and Trent Jones did solid work with Stacey Cox's false accusation against Mr. Stevens followed by Pete raping Stacey. Honestly, a lot of the crappy early Walsh work was probably just alterations to Munisteri's plans with much less nuance than Munisteri would have given it. I know Eric Woodall ended up going to college, but I think they should have tried to bring back Matt even if it was just when Woodall was out of school. The road to the Cooper / Ally / Casey triangle was very rough. I do think it was smart of Walsh to add an Alden to the younger set. I think I might have made the character Lorna's adopted son, which would have been an interesting dynamic for Jack and Shana to play. It would also have meant committing to Lorna, and possibly even Ann. Also, Ava's niece going after Lorna's son would have been fun.