The soap opera writers' discussion

[robbwolff]

And his obit said that Jo didn't have one but two mastectomies. 

 

Paul Raven's post with Shaw's timeline of writing stints makes me pretty certain that the soap book I saw featured his storyline plans for Love of Live, with Meg returning in the late 60s. I'll have to get over to Alexander Library at Rutgers and see if I can find it. Mind you, it was decades ago when I came across the book. 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Perhaps the book you are thinking of is "From Mary Nobel to Mary Hartman" written by Madeleine Edmonson and David Rounds. Rounds had appeared on Love of Love in the 60s and later had a featured role on Mary Hartman. The book was published in 1976 and can be found on Amazon. I mention this because I read it once years ago and I think it had story information for LOL.

[Faulkner]

If you had to note any weaknesses about Agnes Nixon’s writing, what would they be? I rarely read anything negative about her. 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

Okay, everyone, I found the SUCCESSFUL SCRIPTWRITING book (my public library had it online). It won't let me copy and paste the text, so I have retyped the important parts of the interview Robert J. Shaw did. It follows below:

*****

Page 131-132: "I did a show for a long time called "Search for Tomorrow," and there was a very fine actress on it named Mary Stuart. Mary is one of the best in the business, and she has played the lead in "Search" for all 25 years (meaning he wrote for her around 1976). When we go to New York, one of the obligatory things is to take Mary to lunch so she can find out what's coming up for her. One time we finished dessert and she said 'Well, are there any exciting plans?' and I said 'As a matter of fact, Mary, I don't want to get you in a stir but in the next few months you're going to have a mastectomy. Don't worry, it'll come out fine.' She said 'Oh that's very interesting...it'll be my third.'

 

Page 132: "...the pace was painfully slow in the old days. I had a show, "Love of Life" where I literally had a woman in labor for seven weeks. Thirty-five shows and she was still in O.B. waiting to deliver the child."

 

Page 133: "I think our audience has gotten younger...the important audience to me is the 18 to 25 group. I know that's what Procter & Gamble wants. They feel, with justification, that your grandmother has been using a certain kind of soap all their lives and nothing is going to make her change. But younger people are very receptive to advertising and have an open mind about which products they're going to buy."

 

Page 134: "Procter & Gamble buys a new soap maybe every ten years. "Texas" is a perfect example. They let it go two years before they took it off the air, and it never got a rating above 2.4. But they are very patient, so it doesn't allow a lot of room for new programming. "General Hospital" for example is 24 years old (meaning this interview was done in 1987).

 

Page 135: "The head writer, while he or she is highly paid and has many responsibilities, is usually the first one whose head is chopped off. They never think to examine the whole committee, it's the head writer's fault when things go badly."

 

"In the old days of early television I use to write all five scripts. Those were half-hour scripts and I could write five in two days, easily, and take three days off. But no longer. Now they've become productions. Soap operas got that name not only because they sold soap but because the average scene was played out in the kitchen. Now "General Hospital" has a whole city underground; they're going to freeze Port Charles and now we've got a new character we're bringing in, a police commissioner, and he has a secret room with so many gadgets you wouldn't believe it: teleprinters; computers and so forth. This all takes time to write." (I assumed he was talking about Sean Donely, but Sean was introduced in October 1984 by Anne Howard Bailey. So maybe he's talking about someone else?)

 

On page 136 he says they are about six weeks ahead writing scripts before they are filmed and air. He says GH has paid research people. An actual doctor or nurse they can call to ask medical questions.

 

Page 137: "I can do "Search for Tomorrow" for five years and think, 'If I have to write one more line for that woman, I will go out of my mind.' So you leave one show and go on to another one. The characters will be different, and that can be stimulating, although of course the stories won't be all that different. There are only a few basic plots. The triangle always works, the Lady and the Tiger always works. I think every writer to some extent follows the dictum 'when in doubt, steal!'

 

"A good head writer on a soap makes between $6000 and $7500 a week, 52 weeks a year (mid 80s wages)."

[Khan]

Judging from his final quote, I don't think Shaw was saying he wrote for SFT for five years.  I think he was speaking metaphorically, saying that ANY writer is bound to go a little nuts if he/she stays at one show for too long.

 

Post-er(s): But he said he did SFT for "a long time," when he was HW only for a year.

Me: To your average soap opera writer, a year at any show is probably a long time.

 

 

 

OTOH, Laiman, along with Sheri Anderson and Thom Racina, understood that female viewers were soaps' bread-and-butter, which is why romance, and especially supercouples, seemed so important to them when they were writing DAYS.  They gave consistently what they thought their average audience members -- again, females -- wanted consistently.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Khan

[dc11786]

 

I'm pretty sure I have the book in question. It's called "Writing for Television." Max Wylie is the writer. In the soap writing section, Winsor and Shaw were the subjects who provided a majority of the material. The episode provided is from Robert J. Shaw. It's heavy into the Tess / John Randolph story. The storyline projection, titled "Extended Visit," involves Sarah Dale selling her home in Barrowsville and moving in with the Sterlings in Rosehill. Sarah's presence in the Sterling home puts pressure on Vanessa and Bruce's marriage which leads Bruce to stray with Lucy Beale, an expert on historical sites in New York. Part of the projection does outline Meg's return (she wants her mother's money) and delves a little into Meg's time away from the story (involvement with a married man and running a tavern). The projection is credited to Winsor and the story is set to start in December. I found an article from February, 1968 mentioning Sarah's return and the friction caused by her arrival on the Sterling's marriage. I don't know why Meg doesn't return, but it's interesting to note that Meg is mentioned by Winsor in the article.

 

There is also another book, it may be "From Mary Noble to Mary Hartman," that details another planned return for Meg. I believe this one would have been under Don Ettlinger around 1963. I'm pretty certain Paul Raven posted it in the "Love of Life" section years ago. The book included a monthly outline of "Love of Life" during the Phillip Holden / Glenn Hamilton story and it stated something along the lines of Meg returns and becomes involved in real estate. 

[Khan]

I had no idea that Roy Winsor had returned to LOL at some point as HW.  Do any LOL fans remember his work during that period?  If so, how was it (good, bad, in-between)?

[danfling]

Concerning Agnes Nixon, I have not liked her mystery storylines.   I am basing this on the mysteries of All My Children.   Her work on the early One Life to Live (which was co-written with Don Wallace and Paul Wallace) may have been better, but the show did not air in my vicinity during that time.  (just from 1971 on)

 

The Jason Maxwell murder was not very satisfying when it was revealed that Mona was his killer (although she did not remember and spent no time imprisoned).

 

The Eddie Dorance murder had more elements of mystery, but the deathbed confession of Claudette (a longtime character who had spent years in the spotlight but whose appearances had mostly disappeared to the background) was not very satisfying.  The Lars Bogart murder was also much better,  and I think that Ms. Nixon intended that Silver be the killer.  (The storyline that evolved about Lars being a Naxi and that he and Olga were siblings were not the best.)

 

The Sybil Thorne murder was probably the best in terms of mystery.

 

I have read that Henry Slesar wrote that the writer had to know who the murderer is in a good murder mystery and that the writing be done with that in mind.   I have the impression that Ms. Nixon does not follow that rule.   The Alex McIntyre mystery is one in which I felt that the show had no idea of the identity of the murderer (Will Courtlandt) and only decided to write the character off the show at the next-to-the-last minute.   

 

It took little deduction for me to know that it was Mr. U who was stealing Palmer's money (although I was not sure of the motive).

 

Furthermore, I have long felt that Taylor Roxbury-Cannon was one of the most intriguing characters that Ms. Nixon ever created with so many storyline possibilities.  However, at some point, the character was re-imagined and recast (with a very good actress who had little storyline) and that the character was ruined.   However, that may not have been the doing of Ms. Nixon.

 

I felt that the Louie Greco murder mystery was excellent, but I think that it was written my Lorraine Broderick. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

 

Ms. Nixon may be accused of using the romantic triangle too often, but she used it effectively, and she was the master of that - therefore I refuse to criticize her for that (which made up much of her writing style).  She was determined to reunite Frank and Nancy, so other characters such as Caroline was not written as well rounded as others in her many romantic triangles.

 

Agnes Nixon, I feel, was the best writer.   She created a whole town of characters who we loved to watch.   The mysteries, however, were lacking.

 

 

 

 

Also, concerning Ms. Nixon, the introduction of Stuart Chandler was quite a shock.   It is one of the few times that I can remember in daytime television that I actually screamed when Stuart's existence was revealed.   How Bonnie McFannden, Ellen Chandler, and Erica Chandler were used in building the intrigue is extremely commendable!

The use of the Stuart in later storylines was good, and characters such as Stuart and Lily Montgomery  are not too common on daytime television.

 

The  hysteria surrounding Michael Delaney as the gay high school teacher is to be commended.   However, I figured out almost immediately that Kevin Sheffield would be revealed as a gay character.

 

I particularly liked the reactions of Hector Santos and Opal.  Opal was keeping her own secret that she had borne a bi-racial son.

 

I liked Erica's new family after her marriage of Jackson.

Edited June 18, 2018 by danfling

[vetsoapfan]

 

I believe the writer's name was Paul Roberts, not Wallace.

Edited June 18, 2018 by vetsoapfan

[Faulkner]

That’s interesting, @danfling. I was just curious because I never really watched Nixon shows when she was actually driving the storylines. (I began AMC during McTavish and OLTL during Malone, and Loving never aired in my hometown.) I had just never heard many complaints about her writing or discussions about her blindspots (whereas I hear tons about other masters like Bell, Labine, Marland, et al). 

[BetterForgotten]

I also believe people have said Nixon struggled with writing corporate intrigue and gothic-type stories. 

[Soaplovers]

I think the Sybil Thorne mystery came when Wisner Washam became head-writer.. or perhaps co-headwriter.. so that could be why that was a pretty good mystery.  

 

I do agree that Nixon wasn't strong in terms of writing mysteries.. and I don't recall reading a lot of mysteries being written by her.  It does seem like the majority of the Cortlandt gothic tone came when Wisner Washam took over as head-writer as well.

And from what my mom said about Loving (when she was head-writer in the mid 80s of it).. was that it became less about the college and business... and more about the community of Corinth (she even did that one character that was possessed by a demon as well.. which makes no sense to me LOL).

 

Since someone mentioned Labine, I think her biggest strength and weakness was her hamster effect.  There wasn't a lot of character growth nor any true storyline progression on Ryan's Hope especially.  Delia always was scheming, Jill and Frank kept playing their will they/won't they game, and Faith was always a hot mess... and when it looked like all those characters were moving onto new story and/or growth.. she'd pull the rug out from the viewer by having the character resume the same story beat.  The first few years of that show, it was ok.. but when Jill/Frank kept doing their dance by the late 80s.. it was like 'enough guys'... and Delia/Faith were shipped out of town by other writers because of the continual holding pattern of these characters.  Viewers had gotten conditioned to accept it so the show ended up in a catch 22 because of it.  But Labine could tug at the heart strings and write great family scenes like no one else could.

 

 

 

[Khan]

Claire Labine was a big fan of Greek tragedy, and a big believer in psychology, so that might explain some things.

 

Similarly, I think I read somewhere that one of Agnes Nixon's biggest influences was Louisa May Alcott.  If so, then THAT might explain why stories about young love, mixed with contemporary issues, tended to be where Nixon shone greatest as a writer.

 

I know we've said this before, but it always bears repeating: Wisner Washam never gets enough credit for the tremendous work he did as AMC's HW during the early- and mid-'80's.  In the entire history of that show, in fact, there were only three writers who truly "got" AMC: Agnes Nixon (of course), Lorraine Broderick (even if she wrote more clunkers than the other two) and Washam.

[Faulkner]

When I wrote Claire a letter way back in my high school years about my writing aspirations, the first thing she said in her response was, “Read the Greeks.” 

[Soaplovers]

I get that about Labine, but perhaps she would have been better served writing a telenovela with a start, middle, and end than an ongoing continuing drama.  She also could write a good mystery/action movie (The Bride in Black starring Susan Lucci was a great tv movie that had a strong New York backdrop, strong Italian family, criminals, and a mystery to boot... a shame she didn't write more made for tv movies).