The soap opera writers' discussion

[Soaplovers]

What makes a good head-writer?  Is it someone with a clear vision of long term story with wiggle room in case an actor left and/or got pregnant?  Or is there something else needed to be a good head writer?

 

I ask because I finally got to see some of Robert Cenedella's work on The Doctor's.. and his stint wasn't all bad or all good either.  On episodes where he was the script writer, it was a very strong episode full of great scenes and character development.. but he didn't seem to have a good grasp of long term story and/or pacing.  And this is just my impression of seeing his 6 month stint on The Doctors.  

[Paul Raven]

I don't believe that Robert Shaw wrote Search for 5 years. 

 

The thing with a lot of these headwriters is that they wrote maybe a maximum of 2-3 years (often less) on a particular show, which in itself is obviously no easy task, but doesn't really test their abilities to plot and plan longterm.

 

That is why Bill Bell, Irna Phillips and Agnes Nixon rank as first tier because they wrote for many years and kept their shows on track for that time.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

In the interview  Shaw did (in the book I mentioned) he claimed he was headwrtier on SFT for five years. He didn't say which years it was. Even if he was exaggerating, his time on the show is still not reflected on the IMDb. He makes a joke that as much as he loved writing for Mary Stuart, he reached a point where if he had to write another thing for her character Jo he would go out of his mind. That's where he talks about burnout and how sometimes it's good for headwriters to go to another show and start over with a new set of characters and actor personalities. It seemed like he felt restricted by having to write  material for Stuart all the time since she was clearly the star of SFT. Even when Jo was not in a major storyline of her own she was always appearing in the stories of the other characters.

 

He also had a funny comment about advertisers...and how certain things couldn't be done right before commercial on one of the shows he wrote or the advertisers would complain. Basically the sponsors wanted the audience to be properly led into the commercials and had specific ideas of how that should be done. I remember another comment where he talks about a female teen character he was forced to write for in the 70s. It was Lynn Henderson on Love of Life (played by Amy Gibson). He said the producers just decided overnight to put a young teen front and center, so he had to juggle other stories to accommodate this. I see he does not have a credit for Love of Life on the IMDb so maybe he was only in charge of that show briefly. I got the impression he did not like working on Love of Life.

 

In the interview he talked briefly about a sensational plot he did on GH in the mid-80s. Where the city was frozen? Is that what happened? I didn't watch GH during those years, but he laughed about freezing all of Port Charles. He said the push was for action and more over the top storylines which is what he did. He took the gig on GH when his bible for a proposed half hour soap on CBS was not given the green light. Though he does not say in the interview, I think Claire Labine had also submitted a proposal to CBS for a new series. But as I said, CBS went with Capitol. It's a shame because the bible Shaw wrote for the unproduced series is brilliant in so many ways.

 

A litmus test I use is how they can write for both men and women. When a male writer only writes for the male leads, or a female writer only writes for the female leads, it always goes off balance (in my opinion). This is where I think Doug Marland excelled, because he wrote evenly for both men and women. Pam Long, whom I love, wrote more for the women, but she also had an interesting way of idealizing and demonizing the men. So there's a great tension between the sexes in her material for GL, SFT, SB and OLTL.

 

In my view Leah Laiman is an example of someone who could not write adequately for both sexes. I think her stint at Days and her later stint at ATWT show she clearly favored the women and as a result the male characters become nothing more than cardboard props. Also Craig Carlson, when he was writing OLTL, over emphasized the Buchanan men, and the women were just there to blend in with the scenery.

 

In some cases where there is a husband-wife writing team like Bridget & Jerry Dobson or Richard & Carolyn Culliton, we get more balance...but not surprisingly the husband-wife teams write stronger material for married couples and don't always get the single characters right.

Edited June 16, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[robbwolff]

His New York Times obit says he was hired to write Search for Tomorrow in the 1977-1978 season. That matches what other sources say. His obit says he wanted to give Jo a breast cancer storyline and a mastectomy but Mary Stuart had said that Jo had already had two mastectomies. Not sure how accurate that claim is.

 

In what ways was his soap bible brilliant? What was it about? I recall an article in late 1981 that CBS chose Capitol over another soap titled Beverly Hills.

 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Interesting about the proposed storyline for Mary Stuart. Amy Gibson, the teen actress on LOL, has a very incomplete credit on the IMDb, which says she was on that show from the late 70s to the early 80s. So maybe Shaw went to LOL after he left SFT. That would have been before he wrote for Dallas.

 

Shaw's proposed series was called "The Fires of Love" which is what I am referring to with my screen name. It kind of sounds like the name of a Harlequin romance, doesn't it? But it's a very sharply drawn portrait of a troubled east coast family. The backdrop is the cosmetics industry, but there are other elements. The first half is an overview of all the main characters; there are about 20, suggesting this was for a half-hour daytime serial. And the second half is where he outlines the storylines for the first two years.

 

It covers topics like an unwanted pregnancy, drug use, and a brother and sister who fall in love with each other (one turns out to have been adopted, but the viewers aren't supposed to know in the first six months they aren't technically related by blood when they start having romantic feelings for each other...which might have been why it was not given the green light, though that could have easily been revised so the viewers did know upfront it wasn't actually incest). There are a few other storylines he outlines in it. I think the best one is an Erica Kane type schemer who marries into the main family but then is set up for murder by her new mother-in-law and ends up going to prison and giving birth to a baby behind bars. It was brilliant the way he wove it all together, and I think it would have been a hit. He also had a few minority characters, a black model who worked in the cosmetics industry as well as two young guys who lived together with the black model, where it was implied the guys were gay.

 

I would love to have known if Shaw was creating any of those characters for specific actors to play. I never met Shaw. But one of my professors at USC had taken over his course load when Shaw officially retired. She gave me a copy of the unproduced bible which Shaw had shared with her. She also was a writer in the soap industry but had started as an actress. She obviously looked up to Shaw, and I think he might have been a mentor to her.

[Khan]

It's just incredible to me how Robert J. Shaw could write for so many landmark shows -- DALLAS, PEYTON PLACE, GH, etc. -- and yet be so incredibly mediocre.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I like the comment earlier where someone said he was a journeyman writer. He obviously did something right to keep getting hired all the time, to work on so many hit shows in this genre (in both daytime and primetime).

 

Incidentally, for those who are interested-- the book I keep mentioning where Shaw was interviewed is called SUCCESSFUL SCRIPTWRITING. The book has chapters on all facets of writing for film and television. There is a whole chapter on daytime soaps which features the interview with Shaw. Jurgen Wolff and Kerry Cox are the editors. I bought the original hardcover in 1988. It was published in paperback in 1991 and the paperback is dirt cheap on Amazon. Obviously the material and  interviews might seem dated now, but it's still a good book with insights on the writing process and I recommend it.

Edited June 17, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Soaplovers]

I think both Marland and Long could write certain male and female characters well, and at the same time, could be off the mark with other male/female characters.

 

Marland struggled to write certain female characters on GL that weren't his creation, and some of his male characters were written better when Long took over.  I often think if Pam Long had ever been head-writer on ATWT, I think of the ways she would infused that soap with a little bit of fun and emotion.. since Marland eventually turned ATWT into such a downer in the late 80s/early 90s (great intricate stories, but such a cold apathetic tone.. sometimes Long would never be accused of doing).

 

Laiman... I do recall her era of Days had a lot of strongly written female characters (Jennifer, Kimberly, Kayla, Adrienne, Melissa, Eve etc)...and it seemed like the men were written less well rounded.  And I do recall her brief stint on AW had lots of great material for Paulina and Lila.  

 

Lorraine Broderick always had a quirky sense of humor infused in her writing  (i.e. Janet/Erica/Skye hiding Kinders body is my favorite example... and all the women in Oak Haven right before AMC ended).

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

A plot I liked on AMC in the mid-80s was the one where Erica's sister Silver was introduced. Didn't she die and get wrapped in an oriental rug and thrown into Palmer Courtlandt's pond? The mother Goldie Kane turned out to be the killer I think. Maybe I'm misremembering this. Who wrote the Goldie and Silver arc? Was that Broderick?

 

Re: Laiman...yes, all the women were over idealized. Even young Eve was written so we could sympathize with her, despite the fact she was turning tricks and had caused Kimberly to miscarry.

 

One criticism people had about Marland's work in the early 90s was he was doing too many business stories. All that stuff about Lucinda trying to prevent Connor and Evan from taking over her company; Barbara's fashion business; Lisa's multiple businesses; Cal had some sort of business; Roseanna Cabot was an heiress of some car manufacturing company; Angel's father Henry owned a chain of furniture stores I think...Kirk and Emily were involved in business plots, so was James...it was too much...Marland was getting away from the hospital stories and domestic stuff that had been the show's trademark.

Edited June 16, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[robbwolff]

 

Thanks for sharing. That bible sounds quite interesting.

 

Gibson's character Lynn departed Love of Life in November 1978 according to synopses I read online. Prior to that, she didn't seem to have much of a storyline. Perhaps Shaw was head writer back in 1976 when Lynn grappled with alcoholism. 

 

I can't recall the title of the book but I remember coming across a fascinating book about soaps in my college library back around 1984. It was written in the 60s or 70s and included storyline projections for Love of Life. It discussed Bruce Sterling cheating on Van and involved the return of Van's sister Meg when their mother got ill. Not sure why that storyline never came to pass. This was well before Labine and Mayer brought Meg back to the show.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

So Shaw must have written LOL before SFT. He suggested the character of Lynn was basically forced on him by the producers who were eager to court a young(er) audience. So it would have been around the time she was introduced on the show.

 

Re: the bible for "The Fires of Love" there's a Columbia Pictures/TV logo on the cover, which means that studio would have produced it if CBS had bought it. A few years after Shaw's death, around 2003, I found my copy in a box of things when I was moving and re-read it. I was curious as to who might now own the rights to it. Shaw was gay and had no heirs. It turned out he bequeathed his estate to a school he attended in his youth in Wisconsin. I contacted a secretary at the school who put me in touch with the school's attorney. He had no idea the unproduced bible even existed. I did not send him a copy. They were more interested in any money that could have come from it, but since it was never produced, no money had ever been made from it. I was going to donate it to the UCLA Film & Televsion Archive for research purposes but never got around to it. My former professor, whom Shaw had mentored, passed away last year. So I may be the only one who has a copy of it.

Edited June 17, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Paul Raven]

Re Robert J Shaw

 

He was headwriter on

Love of Life from 67-69

Somerset  74 - 75 w Winifred Wolfe

Search for Tomorrow 77- 78

General Hospital 1981 w Leah Laiman, Thom Racina

 

I recall a Thom Racina interview where he said Shaw was there in name only, collecting a paycheck.

 

As for his talk of working on Love of Life in the 70's, there is no record of this. Following Labine/Mayer, Margaret De Priest and Paul and Margaret Scheider are listed before Gabrielle Upton.

Maybe he was a consultant?

 

His New York Times obit was full of innacuracies:

The Mary Stuart story about mastectomies.

That he created Luke and Laura

That he wrote the 'Who Shot JR?'

 

Maybe sloppy fact checking or Shaw told those stories in the first place...

 

His story for Jo on SFT was the Greg Hartford romance which was quickly  dropped when Henry Slesar took over.

[amybrickwallace]

 

My impression of his work on TD was for the most part no fair, no foul. He got the job done but didn't blaze any trails. Maybe if he'd had a strong co-HW, things could have worked out differently.

[vetsoapfan]

 

As you say, Shaw wrote for Love of Life long before 1976-8 when Lynn Henderson appeared. He followed Robert Soderbergh as head writer in 1967 and was then replaced (thank God) by the divine Roy Winsor in 1969. Heaven knows why Shaw later spoke about writing for Lynn, who only came aboard SFT nine years after he was fired. Maybe he was an uncredited consultant.

 

And he certainly did not last five years at SFT. Irving Elman wrote the show from November 1976 into 1977, and Henry Slesar wrote the Steve Kaslo death storyline in 1978, so Shaw could only have been headwriter at Search from mid-1977 to the beginning of 1978 when Henry Slesar replaced him...thank God, again, LOL. About six months. How many stories could he possibly have had to center around Mary Stuart in such a short time? (And of course, Jo had never had a mastectomy, another egregious remark.)

 

Shaw's stints at most soaps were quite short, and he proved a weak, tepid writer in this genre.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by vetsoapfan

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

Yes, maybe Shaw stated things incorrectly during the interview. Or maybe he had been an uncredited consultant on LOL in the 70s. Considering the way these headwriters were moving around all the time, it would not surprise me if some of them were brought in to fix other writers' material.

 

In the event I have gotten some of this wrong, I am going to re-purchase the Successful Scriptwriting book. Since I no longer have my original copy of the book. I will re-read the interview with Shaw and quote it verbatim here what he said, so we have a better less confusing record of these things.

 

Is there a way to add in images/photos? I'd like to show everyone the cover page for Shaw's unproduced bible.

Edited June 17, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove