Jump to content

Dallas Discussion Thread


John

Recommended Posts

  • Members

En

So true, but within the confines of once a week for an hour for 30 or so eps a season they were limited in how far they could take the story away from the leads. That was a problem for all the primetime soaps.

 

Agree, Cathy Podewell was great and made it work. Totally different character from Sue Ellen

 

Part of that was that the writers had a limited view of the character. Lucy was the teen vamp in their eyes and never went beyond that which didn't fit as the character aged.

I don't know why they married her to Mitch, a doctor? Their story was always islanded and treated as filler.

Surely it would have made more sense for Lucy to hook up with a businessman involved in the oil business. That would keep her in the thick of things. Charlene and Larry had great chemistry.

I guess they decided to go in a different direction as Barbara was irreplaceable but it was a bone headed move.

I always wondered how Hope Lange would have worked as Ellie

 

Giving JR a son was a smart move but several seasons too late.

Having Sue Ellen move into the lingerie business was amusing but ultimately led nowhere. Again she should have been involved with something that kept her within the Ewing circle.

Giving JR a son was a good move but several seasons too late.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

  • Members

I knew from the minute I saw that Jock’s body wasn’t recovered from the helicopter crash that he’d eventually be back.

 

The Parmalee story was good, except for the weird, abrupt ending. Every single thing was pointing to him being Jock, and then they did a 180. David Paulsen said they did not intend for him to be Jock, but I suspect they were borrowing heavily from a story plotted out in the previous dream season, when Ben Stivers was going to be Jock.

 

I also didn’t buy Steve Forrest as a potential Jock. Physically he was wrong for the role and didn’t have the same presence. I could never have accepted him as the character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I agree with the show wanting to keep Larry & Patrick happy at all times. Leonard Katzman made sure of that at the expense of the women on the show. Katzman battled with Phil Capice during his time on the show and David Jacobs had very little involvement beyond the first couple of seasons. He would sit in on meeting once a season to get the run down of was being done. It became Katzman's baby quickly after the mini series and he ran with it. Jacobs did tell Katzman that the dream idea was stupid when he told him how they were bringing Patrick back. 

 

Jacob said he originally planned for Bobby to be sort of a playboy and have no interest in the oil business. Bobby would rather take off with Pam to Hawaii or Vegas etc... and Pam would have to set him straight and settle him down to go to work. Bobby was written to be the moral compass of the show and quickly became boring. 

 

Jacobs said Linda Gray was so funny in real life and wish some of that would be incorporated into Sue Ellen, but she was written to have little humor if at all and to be made a perpetual victim. 

 

Jacobs also said Pamela Barnes Ewing should have been the best character he ever created for TV, but she was not written that way and became a damaged victim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Sue Ellen in later seasons did display some humor..and I think Pamela was an awesome character even during the victim years (due to Victoria Principal's likability).

 

Pamela leaving threw the show off balance...Jr vs Pamela was a consistent thread throughout the show...and no one really replaced Pamela despite the show changing April's grey character into a goody goody 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I liked Victoria as Pam. I stopped caring about the show when she left. Those last seasons of Dallas were dreadful. I only bought the DVD's through Victoria's run. 

 

Dallas should have wrapped things up before they started losing the vast majority of original cast members. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


April should have been written out after Bobby found out she had once slept with JR.
News to writers: chemistry or not, if for a romance to work you need to change the characters involved - by turning April into a saint all of a sudden and making Bobby renege on his long-held and very solid principle of not hooking up where JR has been - then it should be a no-go, period. 
If they wanted a pseudo-replacement for Pamela they should have introduced a new character altogether - especially since investing in April ended up for naught when the actress got pregnant.
April was fine for a while but what they did to pair her with Bobby was just bad writing.

And ultimately I will say this: I think the problem was that Bobby wasn't a very good character and he wasn't easy to write something solid for. As Soaplovers said, it is JR vs Pamela that was the thoroughline of the show. Bobby was actually secondary to it.
When she left it all fell on Bobby to balance JR and there were never enough layers to that character to make it work, no matter how charismatic Duffy was. 
That's why almost everything that involved him but not Pamela - when she was there and after she was gone - ended up a dud - from Jenna to April to other subplots. He just wasn't that interesting and while I would not have killed him off when Duffy wanted out in the first place, he wasn't worth the damage to the credibility to the show to bring back. Whatever they paid him should have gone to a raise to VP to keep her.

Edited by FrenchBug82
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Great post. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

 

I viewed Dallas not as the story of the Ewings, but of the Ewing and the Barnes families. And J.R. and Pam were the most important members of their respective families. And Bobby was caught in the middle. Great setup. It was a three legged stool that would not function as well without one of the legs.

 

That said, if you had to lose one of them, then Bobby more expendable than J.R. or Pam. As much as I dislike the direction of the dream season, the show functioned better without Bobby than it did without Pam. And there was so much potential in that setup, but the writers blew it.

 

The producers didn’t recognize Pamela’s importance to the show and were short sighted in letting Victoria Principal walk away. I think there was some sexism involved there, because they believed that Dallas was about the men. And despite what Victoria says now, they could have kept her. She was in negotiations and she wanted salary parity with Patrick Duffy (as well as a one-year deal).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


Yes! That's a really key element I should have mentioned but YES. You are so right to bring it up. A HUGE problem with Dallas was that the people who created it and wrote it thought it was a show about the MEN and women characters functioned around them. That's how they missed how crucial Pamela was.
I recently read a lengthy analysis of every season of Knots Landing and one KL writer explained that the season that was headwritten by a former Dallas writer (whose name escapes me) didn't work because he came in with the POV that Dallas was a show about men and he then struggled when trying to write Knots Landing where the female characters had already been established much stronger.

But bringing it back to Dallas, that was the first time I realized that the writers were actually pretty open about that worldview and it was not just sexist subtext, which I had until then assumed. They really embraced it and wrote the show with that mindset.
There were many sexist plot points that were easy to spot even at the time, but that also influenced bigger "strategic" calls: that's how we ended up with Pamela being written as a victim and then let go, Jenna being transparent as a character, Ellie being recast without second-thoughts, April defanged to get her man, Sue Ellen having none of the spirit and humor of LG, etc... Whether in writing or BTS decisions, it is clear sexism was at hand and it hurt the show.
Everything we mentioned in this thread in the past few days can be traced back to that worldview of Dallas as a men's world.

Edited by FrenchBug82
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Agreed -- and it was very obvious.  Of all the prime time soaps, Falcon Crest seemed the most balanced with a slight edge given to the women.  Jane Wyman / Angela was clearly the star, with Chase and Richard written as her rivals.  Maggie and Melissa were the heroines caught up in romantic entanglements.

Edited by gimmetoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I would say JR was the star on Dallas, but Sue Ellen and Pamela were also huge names, probably as much as Bobby. I liked Bobby, and I even liked his relationship with April, but I don't disagree with those who feel he was a bit thin under Duffy's charm. (I will say I think Pam was a bit thin too, at least once the more complex writing of the first few seasons left)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


Obviously Dallas was JR and JR was Dallas. Sometimes for great, sometimes a bit too much.

But the choice of writing the men as "the stars" of the show was not a natural occurence, the way the women on Knots Landing for instance stood out despite the fact the writing was initially balanced.
It was an intentional choice on the part of the creators, based on their worldview, and they stubbornly clung to it when other possibilities arose and female actresses overshone some of the intended "stars". A good show runner has a vision and then adapts that vision for what organically comes up on-screen. In this case, they didn't and I think it was at least partially about sexism as it was about their ego-driven need to insist they are right.
I think the show would have been better had they realized that Sue Ellen and Pamela, who both were a lot more interesting, layered and likeable characters than Bobby and Cliff, should have been JR's main adversaries and foils. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Victoria Principal said after the first 5 years she felt the writing declined and she made plans to leave the series. She gave them advanced notice. David Jacobs said that Bobby became bland and boring when he became the moral compass of the show. Jacobs said Pamela Barnes Ewing should have been the best character he ever created, but with the eventual way she was written she didn't turn out that way. He was also brutally honest that Linda, Victoria, and Charlene weren't terrific actresses, but they played their parts well as written.

 

He said he often had to remind Katzman and others involved with the show.....it all comes back to these 7 characters. Later on the show lost them all but 2 and it slid into the toilet.

 

Kind of like Victor on Y&R......LOL

Edited by SoapDope
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • How did I never notice how tall Colton was?

      Please register in order to view this content

    • They didn't need to have some slutty gay dude as their representation. Just a 'normal' guy getting involved with another guy or two (or three). Just like the straight characters. Thinking about it, they missed the boat by not having a few other single charcters at the beginning. Maybe Naomi or Ashley could be shown meeting Derek/Jacob and  we could follow their romance. Too many characters were coupled up at the start. As a tattoo hater I was surprised to see Tomas so inked. Don't find it attractive or sexy. I'm surprised an actor would do that as it's definitely a statement and may not be appropriate for some roles. Suppose they can cover if necessary. I didn't buy Kat being all girly and then paying off Darius to get into Eva's room. Way too cliche. She should have just come along when the housekeeping was leaving and breezed in saying it was her room. And her smug looks in the hotel room and 'Now I've got you!!' talks to herself at Orphey Gene's...no.  
    • Omg I was so annoyed. Like girl calm down. Coming on way too strong. Omg I forgot about this

      Please register in order to view this content

    • I thought it got stale before Jocks death lol. His death picked things back up for me.
    • 1976 Pt 5 Tony is summoned to the reading of the will in the Llanfair library,as he’s a principal in the will. He tells Joe there’s not a chance of coming to terms with Dorian, as he is sure she brought about Victor’s death by torturing him emotionally when he was her helpless prisoner after his stroke. Ironically, Chapin hand delivers to Viki a letter her father wrote before his stroke, praising Dorian and asking Viki to befriend and support his widow when he was no longer there. Viki feels a responsibility to her father’s wishes and vows to try with Dorian. Victor’s will leaves the expected amounts to members of his family and staff, with the lion’s share of his stock and property going to Dorian. Victor’s will explains that his son Tony expressed the desire that he not be “bought from the grave,” and, in keeping with his son’s wishes, the only bequest to him is the knowledge of his father’s love and respect. Tony is deeply moved. Dorian’s first attempt to use her new power is the recommendation of Peter as head of the Merideth Lord Wolek hospital wing, claiming that naming Larry would be virtual nepotism. Peter, who has devoted considerable time and effort to helping Jenny get over Tim’s death with gentle, affectionate support, is happy at this suggestion, but Jenny points out Dorian is merely using him to hurt Larry. Viki disregards Dorian’s ingenuous assurances that she’s not trying to wield her new power but is merely putting Peter up for consideration for a future opportunity, if not this one, and tells her she won’t be able to fulfill her father’s desire that they be friends unless Dorian stops interfering. Larry, fully understanding Dorian’s personal motives, warns her he’s going to fight for the appointment no matter what. Realizing that she has made a tactical error, Dorian announces that she won’t even attend the board meeting but will give her proxy to Jim. She admits to Matt McAllister, still her confidant, that this was humiliating, but it was a necessary protective tactic. Dorian manages to win her next round at Joe’s office when, after he praises her decision to yield on appointing Peter, she expresses concern for Viki “at a time like this.” Joe, of course, jumps on her words, and Dorian, pretending great distress at having mentioned something she shouldn’t have, is “forced” to explain that she knew about the congenital heart condition Megan had and that any child of Joe’s is likely to inherit it. She overheard the doctors discussing it at the time of the accident, she continues, and naturally assumed that Joe already knew.  Joe arranges a meeting at home with Viki and asks her how she could live a lie like this; how she could go through their lives as if everything were fine while every moment was a lie. He is further upset when, in trying to explain that it was out of her love for him that she kept the truth from him, she mentions that Jim and Larry also know but Cathy still hasn’t been told. Viki tells Joe that Dorian deliberately told him this way to hurt their marriage, and she is very upset when he starts toward the door, pleading that they have always talked things out in the past. Joe coolly points out that she didn’t do that when she learned about Megan and continues out the door.  A tearful Viki is shaken and when Joe later returns, having spent several hours in a bar drinking only soft drinks,she breaks down, crying that she was convinced he’d left her. Joe assures her they can get through this despite everything, because their relation is based on love and mutual respect. 
    • If you think about it, DALLAS and DYNASTY grew stale right about the same time, even if the ratings were slow to reflect that.  FC and KL, on the other hand, tried to stay fresh, but KL was way more successful at it, I think, than FC.  (That [!@#$%^&*] with The Thirteen does not hold up well, lol).
    • GH 1976 Pt 8 Heather takes advantage of the situation by asking Jeff to come and look at Tommy. She uses sympathy, compassion, and her own feminine wiles, together with his misery and his pills, to lure him into bed. Later, sober, he apologizes. Learning from Pearson that Monica has seen a divorce lawyer, Jeff confronts her, and she insists it’s a lie. Avoiding his attempts to kiss her, she musses her hair and tears her blouse, then rushes to Rick’s, claiming that she can’t stay with that maniac any longer. They wind up in Rick’s bed, and after making love he confesses he always loved her. Rick replies to her question of whether he wants to marry her by saying he has to talk to Jeff. Monica insists that Jeff not bear any pressure from their problems. As she leaves, Rick gives her a key to his apartment. Jeff, having spent the night drinking, misses his surgical assignment, and Steve, informing him that his personal life can’t interfere with his profession, puts him on suspension. Rick can’t persuade Steve to reverse his decision, but Mark, sensing what’s at the heart of Jeff’s problem, convinces Steve to lift Jeff’s suspension and transfer him to Mark’s service. Rick asks for his key back, telling Monica they can’t do anything as long as she’s under Jeff’s roof. So she has a duplicate made and moves into intern’s quarters, explaining that Jeff’s violence drove her out. She tells Jeff she needs privacy to work things out, and tells Rick Jeff wanted her out. Thinking that this is the preliminary to a divorce, Rick tells her she can come to his place. In New York, Leslie’s abortion is delayed by a mix-up in scheduling, and she calls Terri to commiserate. Rick overhears Terri’s conversation and forces the whole story from her. He flies to New York to stop Leslie, feeling responsible for pointing out how evil Cam was, and arrives to find that she has decided she can’t deny her child the right to live. Monica, meanwhile, expecting that Rick will be home, uses her key to let herself into his apartment and is shocked to find Mark there; knowing that Mark was uncomfortable at the hotel, Rick offered Mark use of the apartment in his absence. Monica is upset to learn that Rick is in New York with Leslie, and Mark doesn’t know why. Mark does advise Monica to play fair with Jeff, but she resents his interference. The next day, while covering for Leslie at the clinic, Monica discovers Leslie’s lab test report and jumps to the conclusion that the baby is Rick’s. When Rick and Leslie return, Monica wastes no time in accusing him. He is dismayed to see that she is still as suspicious and possessive as she was before he went to Africa, and points out that her making a duplicate  key proves she hasn’t changed. Terri encourages Leslie to see Rick in a romantic light and then suggests to Rick that Leslie is interested in him. Rick likes this idea and tells Mark he’s growing ‘unwilling to cope with Monica’s unreasonable demands. But Monica immediately recognizes the threat Leslie represents and decides to attack. She goes to Leslie and tells her flatly that she and Rick are having an affair and he’s her exclusive property. Leslie, who realizes she has been falling in love with Rick, is hurt, and Rick is mystified when he feels Leslie pulling away from him. Monica’s big moment comes when she brings Rick a housewarming gift and seduces him into letting her stay overnight. She is in the bedroom when Leslie stops by to apologize for refusing his dates, and makes a dramatic entrance into the living room draped in Rick’s bathrobe. Leslie turns and runs out. Rick later informs her he’s disappointed in her, because she prejudged Monica and him rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. Heather tries to arrange another tryst with Jeff, but he replies that he still loves his wife. Heather decides there’s only one way to get Jeff to be pregnant with his child. She manages to overhear Monica putting Jeff down by telling him he no longer turns her on and should look for someone he does. Heather goes to Jeff and tells him that she heard Monica and that she is the one he’s looking for. She manages to get him into bed again, and sweetly assures him this is right. She then sets the stage for future meetings. Steve, meanwhile, offers to help Monica and Jeff work out their problems. Jeff is willing, but Monica turns the idea down. Instead, she presses Terri to convince Jeff to end the marriage. Terri now knows that Monica isn’t a good wife for Jeff and promises to try. But Jeff makes it clear to Monica that he still loves her and won’t let her go. She is bitter and upset, as she has already implied to Rick that she will soon be free. Audrey is upset to find that Florence Andrews has been inquiring about Tommy and herself. She goes to Florence’s home and finds she’s away now. Florence has gone down to Mexico to sign a sworn statement that she purchased a false death certificate for Tom, to protect his son after his wrongful conviction. Tom, learning from her that Steve and Audrey are to be married and Steve is planning to adopt Tommy, tells  Florence not to do anything, as there’s still no assurance that he’ll ever get out. But the judge does accept the statement, and, ironically, on the day that Steve  and Audrey are married, Tom is released from prison.
    • 1976 Pt 12 Final part Laurie agrees with Stuart that Peggy is rushing into marriage to prove that the rape didn’t ruin her life.  She points out that the only way Peg can be sure is to make love with Jack before the wedding. Stuart admits she’s right but points out that he can’t suggest that to Peggy. As the wedding approaches, Peg seems happy that Jack’s become close to the family. However, her happiness is shattered by a nightmare in which her loving bridegroom turns into a leering Ron Becker, forcing her to cancel the wedding. Jack reassures her he’ll wait as long as it takes, and Chris confides that she and Snapper didn’t consummate their marriage on their wedding night because of her own rape experience, but Peggy tells Chris she might never be ready.  Despite her desire to keep Karen as her own daughter, Chris helps a police artist create a sketch of Nancy so it can be printed in the newspaper as part of a search for her. When the attempt proves fruitless, however, Chris asks Greg to file application for permanent custody of the child. Greg points out that adoption is the only way to prevent Ron from returning and claiming the child, and that it will take quite a while. Meanwhile, a nurse in the psychiatric ward sees a resemblance  between the newspaper drawing and her autistic patient, Mrs. Jackson, but since “Fran” doesn’t respond to the name Nancy and no one else sees the similarity, she fears she’s mistaken. Jill is horrified to overhear Kay, when brihging baby Phillip a Christmas gift, telling the child she remembers the night he was conceived. Kay has to then admit to Jill she saw her with Phillip in the bunkhouse that night. Jill is aghast to realize that Kay new the truth all along and put her through such agony in spite of it, denying her baby his father’s name. Lance tells Laurie they’ll marry on Valentine’s Day. He laughs that it’s corny but agrees, secretly wishing it were sooner, as Vanessa has vowed to prevent it. Indeed, Vanessa makes an unprecedented venture out of the house to visit Brad, telling him to rebuff any advance Leslie might make to him, as she’s reaching out to him only from a sense of duty. But Laurie then makes a concerted effort to reach Vanessa. Without being sure why she’s trying so hard, she tries to assure the woman she’s not losing Lance and she, Laurie, will help her find a plastic surgeon somewhere who can help her. Grudgingly, Vanessa seems to be reconsidering her view of Laurie, and Laurie is delighted when Lance offers her a choice between two diamond necklaces, explaining that her preference will be Vanessa’s Christmas gift. Learning from Les about Brad’s blindness, Stuart tells Brad he could have turned Leslie away only out of great love. Knowing that Les is going to see Brad again, Laurie warns him not to bring the baby into their discussion, as Leslie will come back only she’s convinced he loves her, not for the babies sake. Leslie finds Brad disheveled and sloppy, and proceeds to straighten the apartment, stating that she can't respect him if he lets himself go. Realizing that neither Brad nor Les will make the first move, Laurie hurries things along by refusing to help Brad with his grooming, saying he should ask his wife. Then, having learned  that Brad offered Les the use of their piano, Laurie untunes the Brooks' piano forcing Leslie to accept his offer. By refusing to cater to his  blindness, Les manages to get Brad to stop wallowing in pity, and by the time Leslie’s Christmas braille message of her love and her need for him arrives, they are husband and wife again Lance takes Laurie on a business trip on New Year's Eve, and tells her, on board his plane, she won't be  won't be able to call him “Mr. All Talk and No action” after tonight. When Laurie protests that waited this long and will continue to wait until married, Lance delights her by instructing his pilot to land in Las Vegas, where they are married immediately.
    • Yeah, not sure why Jack and Jen didn’t rush to Marlena - or even Carrie - to offer their condolences. A few flashbacks would've been a nice touch too. Instead, we got a whole episode of them talking about Chad and Abby? Come on. On the bright side, I loved Anna’s scenes with Marlena and Carrie - sweet and heartfelt, felt like a real 80s throwback.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy