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As The World Turns Discussion Thread


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37 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Did they fire the first actor, or did he leave? If Colleen McDermott could hang on for several months, despite being truly lackluster, I don't see tptb willingly getting rid of the actor so soon, unless he wanted to go.

I think Pine was likely available and had shown he could play a bad guy. His Tad Channing was gross and hopelessly ruthless, with no redeeming qualities. I'm guessing that with Pine, the writing had decisively leaned fully into D#nald T*ump by then. Amoral, disgusting real estate developer who was on the verge of wrecking the business that his father built, while being incapable of keeping his rape-y hands to himself.

I had wondered if they might have had plans to make more of a real Betsy/Tad relationship until they and Frank Runyeon agreed to part ways, which would have meant a grosser interpretation of Tad. 

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2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I had wondered if they might have had plans to make more of a real Betsy/Tad relationship until they and Frank Runyeon agreed to part ways, which would have meant a grosser interpretation of Tad. 

That's something to think about, which I never had before, tbh.

There were a number of directions in which they could have gone had the first Tad remained. One that immediately came to mind was a reprisal of his and Iva's love affair, as it highly unlikely that Craig and Iva's relationship would last. Unless we get a conversation with someone on the writing staff back then, I guess we'll never truly know for certain.

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Regarding the August 1986 episodes where Tom found out he had NOT slept with Barbara:  I love that Marland had Margo forgive Tom and decide to return to him prior to she and Tom realizing the truth. It was love that brought them back together, not the revelation that he had not cheated. 

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1 minute ago, MarlandFan said:

Regarding the August 1986 episodes where Tom found out he had NOT slept with Barbara:  I love that Marland had Margo forgive Tom and decide to return to him prior to she and Tom realizing the truth. It was love that brought them back together, not the revelation that he had not cheated. 

That's what's interesting to me. The gaps in the current playlists online have Margo discovering she is pregnant early in the Kim Hughes trial, then (for the 20th time!) walking in on Barbara talking to Tom. I was ready to roll my eyes again but then it skips to around June 9th and Tom and Margo seem to be dating/rebuilding and happy. So clearly something went down or the pregnancy was the inciting incident for Margo.

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I had wondered if they might have had plans to make more of a real Betsy/Tad relationship until they and Frank Runyeon agreed to part ways, which would have meant a grosser interpretation of Tad. 

I was wondering that as well. Larry Pine is a great, versatile actor of stage and screen who's been in a zillion things but woo he is sleazy here and clearly loving it.

10 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

There were a number of directions in which they could have gone had the first Tad remained. One that immediately came to mind was a reprisal of his and Iva's love affair, as it highly unlikely that Craig and Iva's relationship would last.

There's also Steve and Iva to consider.

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2 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

Regarding the August 1986 episodes where Tom found out he had NOT slept with Barbara:  I love that Marland had Margo forgive Tom and decide to return to him prior to she and Tom realizing the truth. It was love that brought them back together, not the revelation that he had not cheated. 

I appreciated that too. It's just unfortunate that the episodes that showed the inciting incidents that led Margo to do this are not up on YouTube. 

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16 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I think Pine was likely available and had shown he could play a bad guy. His Tad Channing was gross and hopelessly ruthless, with no redeeming qualities. I'm guessing that with Pine, the writing had decisively leaned fully into D#nald T*ump by then. Amoral, disgusting real estate developer who was on the verge of wrecking the business that his father built, while being incapable of keeping his rape-y hands to himself.

It was just weird..he went from younger and sexier to..someone who looked like a weird old man in an "adult" movie theater! I know they wanted the sleaze but it just made Iva look dumber then she already did.  Maybe they were first thinking he was going to be long term and then when there was not going to be a quad of Iva/Steve/Betsy/Tad they went all out sleaze ball villain for the kill. Too bad, the show needed a sexy villain and I am sorry, Tonia did not cut it. Iva seemed brighter and tougher during this time, after that she just became the morose looser in love that when she wasn't saying "Im worried about Lily" she was saying, as everyone else "Honesty is the most important part of a relationship" I forgot how intersting Iva was at first....she kind of had an antogonistic relatiionship with Mama Farmer and was world weary, which no one in Oakdale was allowed to be.

Anybody know the first actors name..it looks like he disappeared.

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2 hours ago, Vee said:

That's what's interesting to me. The gaps in the current playlists online have Margo discovering she is pregnant early in the Kim Hughes trial, then (for the 20th time!) walking in on Barbara talking to Tom. I was ready to roll my eyes again but then it skips to around June 9th and Tom and Margo seem to be dating/rebuilding and happy. So clearly something went down or the pregnancy was the inciting incident for Margo.

I was wondering that as well. Larry Pine is a great, versatile actor of stage and screen who's been in a zillion things but woo he is sleazy here and clearly loving it.

There's also Steve and Iva to consider.

Right, many directions, many possibilities but for whatever reason, the original actor left and Pine came in and the characterization truly became Trumpian (nobody can convince me otherwise, if anyone sees that scene where Pine is standing by a moonlit window and only is silhouette is shown with sinister background music. The silhouette, sharp shouldered suit, it looks so much like...look at video from the 1980s and you'll see what I mean. The resemblance is unsettling.

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Just now, DramatistDreamer said:

Right, many directions, many possibilities but for whatever reason, the original actor left and Pine came in and the characterization truly became Trumpian

It's very deliberate. I think Emily even mentions Trump, or someone does.

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5 minutes ago, Mitch said:

It was just weird..he went from younger and sexier to..someone who looked like a weird old man in an "adult" movie theater! I know they wanted the sleaze but it just made Iva look dumber then she already did.  Maybe they were first thinking he was going to be long term and then when there was not going to be a quad of Iva/Steve/Betsy/Tad they went all out sleaze ball villain for the kill. Too bad, the show needed a sexy villain and I am sorry, Tonia did not cut it. Iva seemed brighter and tougher during this time, after that she just became the morose looser in love that when she wasn't saying "Im worried about Lily" she was saying, as everyone else "Honesty is the most important part of a relationship" I forgot how intersting Iva was at first....she kind of had an antogonistic relatiionship with Mama Farmer and was world weary, which no one in Oakdale was allowed to be.

Anybody know the first actors name..it looks like he disappeared.

When Tad became such an openly venal character, we knew he was not long for this soap world.

I think the explanation that was used for Iva was rock-bottom self-esteem because of the rape as well as naiveté and desperation (remember, this was a character who also posed for nude photos to make ends meet).

Also there are different types of intelligence. Iva, perhaps was intelligent in her job but lacked emotional intelligence. 

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

It's very deliberate. I think Emily even mentions Trump, or someone does.

As a child, I would not have gotten these references but as an adult revisiting these episodes over the last few years, I got it right away! Reading the news articles in regards to shady tax dealings and his unsavory history as well as the rape allegations and accounts of his predatory behavior, it's clear that he was notorious in the NYC scene. Every adult in a certain milieu of 1980s NYC would have known about him. Marland must have reviled Trump to style Pine's character so similarly. No surprise that the character became so reviled on his way out. It also bears out the reason for the identity of the "Who Done It?" without giving too much away.

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12 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

As a child, I would not have gotten these references but as an adult revisiting these episodes over the last few years, I got it right away! Reading the news articles in regards to shady tax dealings and his unsavory history as well as the rape allegations and accounts of his predatory behavior, it's clear that he was notorious in the NYC scene. Every adult in a certain milieu of 1980s NYC would have known about him. Marland must have reviled Trump to style Pine's character so similarly. No surprise that the character became so reviled on his way out. It also bears out the reason for the identity of the "Who Done It?" without giving too much away.

What year were these episodes from?

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Decided to post this here as Irna was most associated with ATWT. It's from Variety, early 1970.

Irna Phillips, grand dame of daytime serials has terminated her exclusive agreement with P&G.

The prolific writer of daytime strips gave up a pact that committed her services through 1976.

She has been exclusively under contract to P&G for the past six years- her release means she has departed ATWT which has ranked as the highest rated daytime program for the past 12 years.

Miss Philips, in from her Chicago home disclosed her change of status at a press conference set up by ABC TV to promote the webs new serial 'A World Apart' created and written by Miss Phillips daughter Katherine which debuts March 30. Irna Phillips will be story editor for the series on a non-exclusive basis.

Miss Phillips said she asked for her release for three basic reasons.

"First I want to help my daughter. A World Apart is the first series created by Katherine who has previously worked as a writer on ATWT.

Secondly I wanted time to write my autobiography which will called 'The Ivory Tower' or 'Its A Mans World -And Should Be', she said, noting she favored the latter title.

And lastly I wanted to be free!

Miss Phillips interpretation of free translates to non exclusive. She expressed considerable dissatisfaction with the restraints the exclusive contract had put upon her creative efforts in the recent past,

'I'm  a terribly self disciplined writer'', she said and in 40 years of experience I think I've learned what can and should be put on the air. I resented the continual tinkering and script conferences that were part of the exclusive pact. Its a rapidly changing world and daytime serials have to keep abreast or ahead of the times. There were things I wanted to do and couldn't so I got out.

She has much enthusiasm for the new strip.

'Its indeed a world apart that we live in. Race is separated from race, parents are alienated from children and we hope to sew it up a little in A World Apart.'

Asked if she had any control over the casting of her serials she said,' This is the first time-producer director Tom Donovan and I have some say in the matter and it helps. You tend to write for the actor or actress who plays the role and its nice to cast the part with someone whose work you actually like.

All of which sounds like a writer rather than a story editor talking but Miss Phillips insists her daughter is the creative force behind the serial.

She originated the radio serial concept in Chicago 40 years ago.Her 'Todays Children'was a long time staple on network radio, and was followed by The Guiding Light which marked her transition from radio to tv writer. She also originated the first half hour serial ATWT and created or co created Another World and Days of Our Lives.

 

Interesting that she only lasted a year at A World Apart. I wonder if she and Katherine clashed?

That exclusive P&G contract must have come about after she signed as aconsultant with ABC in 64 for a year. P&G musn't have liked her working for the opposition. Irna probably got top dollar from both of those deals.

By early 72 she was back at ATWT. Maybe she insisted on more control as ATWT slipped from the top in her absence and CBS wanted her back.

Anyway,always fascinating to read an interview and try to get a fix on where she stood.

Someone needs to do a documentary on her, It's a pity her children were never interviewed.

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10 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Decided to post this here as Irna was most associated with ATWT. It's from Variety, early 1970.

Irna Phillips, grand dame of daytime serials has terminated her exclusive agreement with P&G.

The prolific writer of daytime strips gave up a pact that committed her services through 1976.

She has been exclusively under contract to P&G for the past six years- her release means she has departed ATWT which has ranked as the highest rated daytime program for the past 12 years.

Miss Philips, in from her Chicago home disclosed her change of status at a press conference set up by ABC TV to promote the webs new serial 'A World Apart' created and written by Miss Phillips daughter Katherine which debuts March 30. Irna Phillips will be story editor for the series on a non-exclusive basis.

Miss Phillips said she asked for her release for three basic reasons.

"First I want to help my daughter. A World Apart is the first series created by Katherine who has previously worked as a writer on ATWT.

Secondly I wanted time to write my autobiography which will called 'The Ivory Tower' or 'Its A Mans World -And Should Be', she said, noting she favored the latter title.

And lastly I wanted to be free!

Miss Phillips interpretation of free translates to non exclusive. She expressed considerable dissatisfaction with the restraints the exclusive contract had put upon her creative efforts in the recent past,

'I'm  a terribly self disciplined writer'', she said and in 40 years of experience I think I've learned what can and should be put on the air. I resented the continual tinkering and script conferences that were part of the exclusive pact. Its a rapidly changing world and daytime serials have to keep abreast or ahead of the times. There were things I wanted to do and couldn't so I got out.

She has much enthusiasm for the new strip.

'Its indeed a world apart that we live in. Race is separated from race, parents are alienated from children and we hope to sew it up a little in A World Apart.'

Asked if she had any control over the casting of her serials she said,' This is the first time-producer director Tom Donovan and I have some say in the matter and it helps. You tend to write for the actor or actress who plays the role and its nice to cast the part with someone whose work you actually like.

All of which sounds like a writer rather than a story editor talking but Miss Phillips insists her daughter is the creative force behind the serial.

She originated the radio serial concept in Chicago 40 years ago.Her 'Todays Children'was a long time staple on network radio, and was followed by The Guiding Light which marked her transition from radio to tv writer. She also originated the first half hour serial ATWT and created or co created Another World and Days of Our Lives.

 

Interesting that she only lasted a year at A World Apart. I wonder if she and Katherine clashed?

That exclusive P&G contract must have come about after she signed as aconsultant with ABC in 64 for a year. P&G musn't have liked her working for the opposition. Irna probably got top dollar from both of those deals.

By early 72 she was back at ATWT. Maybe she insisted on more control as ATWT slipped from the top in her absence and CBS wanted her back.

Anyway,always fascinating to read an interview and try to get a fix on where she stood.

Someone needs to do a documentary on her, It's a pity her children were never interviewed.

Thanks for posting this. 

It's like I posted in a different thread in this section: soaps have a very difficult time with innovation on any level. They don't do it very often. Phillips was voted down when she wanted to ditch the organ music when The Guiding Light was finally brought to television (another change that P&G resisted for years, as they wanted to keep TGL on radio, while Phillips immediately wanted to bring the serial to TV as soon as the technology became available) because Phillips worried that the organ music, which she deemed unnecessary for a visual medium like television, would become a trope that would be easily mocked. 

Phillips wasn't always right and Lord knows she had a history of being unkind, at times, but she was clearly right in these instances.

I think her constant battles with P&G and her even more frequent bouts with self-doubt clearly embittered her and also gave her a world view that a woman in a man's world was always going to be constrained.

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