As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[FrenchBug82]

Yes. But I do think soap writers have a tendency to confuse "humanity" with "sanding off the edges".
I do think a good writer could pull a raging bitch who is likeable and yet does not stop being a bitch or spoiled.
Too often, when TPTP decide a character is a lead, then suddenly all the thorns, asperities, ugly sides of a character's personality are shaved off AND forgotten and they become generic.
That was one admirable thing about Lucinda for so long that she managed to hold center-stage without ceasing to be horrible at times. And I think there was plenty of room for Lily to spoiled and brattish AND compelling without trying to brainwash us into thinking she was sweet.

[BetterForgotten]

I always sound like the president of the Heather Rattray fan club, but I do think the change in writing and actresses went a long way in making Lilly a hell of a lot more digestible to me during that time. 

[DRW50]

She was the first Lily I ever saw, and I was always able to care about her, especially during the miscarriage storyline. I struggled with the character after Heather left. I wasn't that surprised to learn she was not popular with fans, given what a departure she was from Martha, but I think her work has held up well - frankly, better than much of Lily's other material. 

[KMan101]

 

Sorry, I meant 1998. I had 1999 in my head for some reason! lol

 

And thank you for the photo. Such a shame Julie never returned regularly. Not that they'd probably write her well at all ...

 

I liked her as well. It felt like a very different Lily but it *worked*. I noticed they seemed to play her a bit more with Iva/Lisa Brown even though Lily was in the business world (though I was only able to watch so much on YouTube so ...).

 

But I really liked her in the role honestly. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by KMan101

[DramatistDreamer]

...but I didn't think Lily was sweet. It wasn't until I got on social media that I started to hear that we the viewers were supposed to believe that Lily was infallible. Then again, I didn't really focus on Lily in those days.

[TVFAN1144]

They should have been like Dallas and made this era a bad dream.  Such terrible writing and disgrace to long time fans

[j swift]

Cleveland Amory was famous for hating everything on TV, except cats.  He really liked cats and promoted the humane treatment of feral cats into the public conscience.  That being said, it always seems unfair when TV critics write about a soap that they did not follow.  It would be like a literary critic only writing about the second book in a trilogy without the benefit of reading the other two.  It reminds me of when the NY Times wrote a review of the online versions of AMC and OLTL, the main thesis was that they were difficult to follow for the uninitiated fan.  Of course, those shows were not meant for uninitiated fans, and few people would watch one episode of a soap and expect to immediately understand the plot.

Also, he repeats that old yarn about Eileen Fulton being accosted on the streets of New York by a fan who could not tell fact from fiction. I dislike that story because it diminishes the intelligence of soap fans.  Sometimes that mythical tale happened to Ms. Fulton in a supermarket involving a tomato and sometimes it happened on the street.  However, I would give a hubbard squash to anyone who could actually verify those events. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by j swift

[TVFAN1144]

I think Oakdale is supposed to be a suburb of Chicago.  Wherever it is I’ve always pictured it to be very affluent.  Since most of the women are very active and successful there would likely be stores and boutiques to cater to the town’s clientele or they could travel to find designer clothes.

[j swift]

With all due respect, I would also offer a hubbard squash to anyone who can find a retired cabaret singing, doctor's wife, and great grandmother in the outer suburbs of Chicago (close to the farmland) who was that chic.

Please register in order to view this content

Even with this obvious misstep

 

To be clear, I don't doubt that women in the midwest can dress well.  I was merely remarking on the universal styling abilities of the characters seemed to reflect an urbane New York sensibility rather than the suburban setting of Oakdale (even with its rather active nightlife).

Edited July 26, 2021 by j swift

[slick jones]

Glad you appreciated it. It popped up in a 60s and 70s page on FB. The writer is a negative Nelly--he always is. I enjoy reading any takes on the shows I find.  The story about EF reminds me of a game of telephone. It's been told and re-told so many times there are hundreds of versions of it.

[titan1978]

It worked for Sami on DAYS for a long time. And Laura on GH before the ending of the Ice Princess, as Lesley would have described her as troubled.  She was a straight up brat quite a bit, but it had a humanity to it and Genie made her rootable.  Marland certainly wanted her to remain vain and self centered.

[P.J.]

I've never even heard of anyone who described Bob as "unfeeling male obstinacy" walking.  Although, this was the 60/70s, and I know around the same time he didn't want his wife Jennifer to resume her career.

[MarlandFan]

Heather Rattray definitely made Lily her own. She helped move Lily to adulthood and made us feel Lily's anguish during the miscarriage/ Holden's amnesia/ the Aaron deception storylines.

 

[Liberty City]

Heather Rattray definitely brought her own to the character, but I definitely could not have seen the warmer, motherly years of Martha Byrne's second return working for Rattray.

Jon Hensley did have this to say as for part of the reason why she exited the role of Lily: "We didn't have that underlying chemistry that you need to make it work day in and day out."

Edited July 27, 2021 by Liberty City

[Mitch]

Ha! However, I don't think you can find too many our ring suburbs that have  spies, rich scottish muscle men (straight) with transported castles or a beloved flamboyant town busy body running around with feather boas either but...I can see a doctors wife..who also has her own considerable wealth, dressing like that...just not day in and day out...(we never see anyone but the farm folk in jeans..)

I do think the geography of Oakdale is a bit bizarre. I always thought it was a city close to Chicago that yes, in later years would be an outer ring suburb..but not only the Snyder farm but other farms make it seem more Central Illinois then anything else. Its the same as Springfield which could not possibly be in Illinois as it has a lighthouse, so it would have to be Michigan but...