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As The World Turns Discussion Thread


edgeofnik

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-- "Didn't Doug write ATWT (and Lucinda ) for like 8 years?

For sure in that time there would be instances when she wasn't happy about the writing or particular plot points. Maybe she is focusing on those times and forgetting the good stuff...human nature to do that." --

 

It's all about perspective, I guess.  And I think Liz's idea of writing for Lucinda would be storylines specifically for Lucinda, meaning Lucinda was the "star" of the storyline.  So even though Marland used Lucinda constantly, and she got lots of air-time, Liz doesn't see that as really writing for Lucinda.  It's funny, because I watched the entire Marland run on ATWT, and I thought he over-emphasized Lucinda, giving too much attention to a character who was really peripheral to the show.  Good Lord, it seemed like she was on every day!  So every time she says Marland didn't write for Lucinda, I just shake my head.  But as I said, it's all about perspective.    

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9 hours ago, Vee said:

I always suspected Goutman and possibly Sheffer wanted to pair Craig and Lily, yes. Didn't Goutman actually do it or tease it near the end with the irregulars (Beck and Lindstrom)? The show was completely alien to me by then on far more levels.

 

I think he was trying to manipulate her, yes. I wasn't watching much in the early or mid '00s but I do remember a time when Craig and Lily became closer, before that was dropped. Hunt Block was so so awful as Craig. One of the many things they got wrong was that he did care about Lily. He wouldn't have just used her. 

10 hours ago, Khan said:

IIRC, Douglas Marland didn't seem all that upset when Elizabeth Hubbard left THE DOCTORS, where she had portrayed Dr. Althea Davis.  So, it appears the two never saw eye-to-eye at either show.  Yet, IMO, no one wrote for Hubbard, or for Lucinda, better than Marland.  And I say that as one who will adore Hubbard until the real world stops turning.

 

There was an interview with Marland while he was at The Doctors where he was very candid, to the point of criticizing Julia Duffy for leaving the show when he had story planned for Penny. I don't know how close Liz and Julia were, but I do wonder if any of that period, with Julia's exit, and her own exit, stayed in her head for the rest of their working relationship. It seemed like his unpleasant experiences at GH and GL may have gone on to shake Marland up a bit about the industry, so maybe he was different by the time of ATWT, I don't know.

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I know lots of folks feel differently, but I do think Block had some solid work in the role, even if Craig was very different in a lot of ways; I ultimately feel Bryce was superior and more versatile, as he did end up playing the same darker (and more two-dimensional) Sheffer model of Craig himself later. I did think there was a strange, taboo chemistry with Block and Byrne and their characters from different present-day spheres that interested me, but at that time I was largely unaware of just how close young Lily and Bryce's Craig had been; most of my Marland viewing came later. So while it interested me, I can see why that disgusted Byrne and many fans. It could never have happened with Scott Bryce.

 

Are there any serialized Marland-era playlists on YT? I remember devouring a huge portion of the Doug Cummings story unedited, many episodes in a row, a couple years ago.

 

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12 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

His dialogue needed some punching up..so I tip my hat off to Liz for making his writing pop.  He may have been good at plot, but his micro managing his script writers made the dialogue stilted

 

I'm not saying that the writing didn't need punching up, I'm saying that it's bad form to do it on the fly without giving a heads up to the writers.  If someone had done that to me repeatedly they'd be out, I don't care who they are.  She was never known to do this with any of the playwrights she worked with and was especially supportive of Chayefsky, even though he wrote a flop for her to costar in.

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38 minutes ago, Vee said:

Are there any serialized Marland-era playlists on YT? I remember devouring a huge portion of the Doug Cummings story unedited, many episodes in a row, a couple years ago.

 

munecojim has year-by-year playlists from 1985-1993. They haven't been updated in a year, so just to be safe you may want to put "as the world turns _____ " in search and look for results from the last year, as 1986, 1991 and 1987 have had new episodes uploaded over that time period.

Edited by DRW50
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4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think he was trying to manipulate her, yes. I wasn't watching much in the early or mid '00s but I do remember a time when Craig and Lily became closer, before that was dropped. Hunt Block was so so awful as Craig. One of the many things they got wrong was that he did care about Lily. He wouldn't have just used her.

 

I thought he was awful too.

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In later years, for both her and Geary on GH, you could see them reaching more and more for their improv dialogue, and their scene partners just in a holding pattern waiting for them to get back to the script.

 

I wonder how she would feel if she had been on a show like GH under Monty- where the actors brought the character quite often to plot driven storytelling, so the improvisation was welcomed.
 

I can see the criticism of Marland.  I sometimes find his ATWT stilted when I watch it on YouTube.  I see why people loved it, but I also feel a disconnect to it.  Especially the latter years, 1990 and beyond.  When I started watching GL on YouTube from the same time period, I fell in love with almost every character.  ATWT did not have the same effect on me. 

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5 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

-- "Didn't Doug write ATWT (and Lucinda ) for like 8 years?

For sure in that time there would be instances when she wasn't happy about the writing or particular plot points. Maybe she is focusing on those times and forgetting the good stuff...human nature to do that." --

 

It's all about perspective, I guess.  And I think Liz's idea of writing for Lucinda would be storylines specifically for Lucinda, meaning Lucinda was the "star" of the storyline.  So even though Marland used Lucinda constantly, and she got lots of air-time, Liz doesn't see that as really writing for Lucinda.  It's funny, because I watched the entire Marland run on ATWT, and I thought he over-emphasized Lucinda, giving too much attention to a character who was really peripheral to the show.  Good Lord, it seemed like she was on every day!  So every time she says Marland didn't write for Lucinda, I just shake my head.  But as I said, it's all about perspective.    

 

I agree with the aspect of it being about perspective.  Perhaps Hubbard preferred Lucinda be a more marginal character, more part of the ensemble than standout and if so, I can respect that.  When the character of Lucinda first appeared on the scene in 1984, they had her going after John Dixon, with Lucinda musing about what it would be like to be married to a prominent doctor (part of the reason for her "rivalry" with Karen) which seemed like something out of the 1950s even back then but perhaps that is what Liz would've preferred. I also wonder whether Hubbard disliked Lucinda being spurned by Craig.  In 1985, it seemed as if Craig was a bit torn where Sierra and Lucinda were concerned after his one night stand with Lucinda. To me, it seemed obvious that it was guilt, not love that made him somewhat conflicted where his budding romance with Sierra was concerned but perhaps in Liz's mind, Craig was in love with Lucinda somehow?  It became obvious under Marland's pen that Craig didn't want Lucinda-- I even recall a scene where Lucinda was groping all over Craig and he literally pushed her off him and said "Go take a cold shower" with a look of disgust.  Even as a fictional character, I could see how that rejection could sting. Television is also not like a play.  Whereas a play, an actor has time to investigate the world of the character, scene by scene and ask the playwright a lot of questions, soaps move so fast that there isn't much time to process any of the reasons why things happen, so it would be easy to see how differently a writer's perspective of a character might be different from an actor's.  Honestly though, does anyone believe that Lucinda Walsh was a fully formed character when she arrived a year and a half before Marland arrived?

 

Also, I love Liz, God knows I do (she has stories for days!) but why did no one correct her when she referred to Jesse Lee Soffer's character as the young homosexual man?  Was she getting him mixed up with Van Hansis?

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2 hours ago, Vee said:

I know lots of folks feel differently, but I do think Block had some solid work in the role, even if Craig was very different in a lot of ways; I ultimately feel Bryce was superior and more versatile, as he did end up playing the same darker (and more two-dimensional) Sheffer model of Craig himself later. I did think there was a strange, taboo chemistry with Block and Byrne and their characters from different present-day spheres that interested me, but at that time I was largely unaware of just how close young Lily and Bryce's Craig had been; most of my Marland viewing came later. So while it interested me, I can see why that disgusted Byrne and many fans. It could never have happened with Scott Bryce.

 

Are there any serialized Marland-era playlists on YT? I remember devouring a huge portion of the Doug Cummings story unedited, many episodes in a row, a couple years ago.

 


Thank you. Hunt Block was great and was playing Craig AS WRITTEN. 

 

Scott Bryce was in Hollywood doing prime-time. He would not have come back then. 
 

Should he have been fired from his second stint on ATWT?  No. 
 

But Hunt was very well-received at the time, by fans and soap press. So was Heather Rattray as Lily. It’s revisionist history that they weren’t. 
 

You can blame Goutman for effing up Craig, but Block seems to get so much heat for his portrayal. It was on the page, in the script. 
 

Weirdly, when a character is NOT recast, but has major personality shifts ( Zenk’s Barbara, more than once), it’s ok. 

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I never liked Lilly until Heather Rattray, and I stopped liking her again when Martha returned. It is absolute revisionist history that she was a bad recast - in fact, much of the soap press praised her at the time, and she definitely added more layers to the character. In fact, her Lilly felt more like the daughter that Lucinda would've raised to me. 

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26 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

I never liked Lilly until Heather Rattray, and I stopped liking her again when Martha returned. It is absolute revisionist history that she was a bad recast - in fact, much of the soap press praised her at the time, and she definitely added more layers to the character. In fact, her Lilly felt more like the daughter that Lucinda would've raised to me. 

 

There were times with Heather Rattray that she sounded like Martha.. especially when her Lily was frustrated by Lucinda.  It was a great recast.  She combined some of the characteristics of Martha's Lily.. along with the more subdued ones of the brief 1st Lily Lucy Deakins.

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1 hour ago, antmunoz said:


Thank you. Hunt Block was great and was playing Craig AS WRITTEN. 

 

Scott Bryce was in Hollywood doing prime-time. He would not have come back then. 
 

Should he have been fired from his second stint on ATWT?  No. 
 

But Hunt was very well-received at the time, by fans and soap press. So was Heather Rattray as Lily. It’s revisionist history that they weren’t. 
 

You can blame Goutman for effing up Craig, but Block seems to get so much heat for his portrayal. It was on the page, in the script. 
 

Weirdly, when a character is NOT recast, but has major personality shifts ( Zenk’s Barbara, more than once), it’s ok. 

 

I agree that Hunt Block was great as Craig, and he was playing the role as written.  My problem with "that" Craig is that Craig had almost completely reformed under Marland's pen.  He was still a bit of an anti-hero, but he had reformed.  When the character returned with Block in the role, there seemed to be absolutely no motivation for Craig's return to the dark-side.  Why not show us that motivation, so Block's Craig would be more easily accepted?  Or perhaps Sheffer could have just created a new character for Block to play.  Or former character not so reformed, Scott Eldgrige for example.   

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Was the issue with Rattray‘s Lily that she didn’t have the same chemistry with Holden?

 

I seem to recall reading that somewhere.  That it also led to the Holden has amnesia storyline.

Edited by titan1978
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3 hours ago, antmunoz said:


Thank you. Hunt Block was great and was playing Craig AS WRITTEN. 

 

 

 

Hunt's portrayal of a grieving Craig after Bryant's passing was wonderful, in particular the scenes at the hospital. I also bought him as an overprotective father to Lucy. The same for his love for Rosanna. It's a shame MBE's stints on the show were short and supporting in nature. I was thought she had Hunt had decent chemistry. 

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1 hour ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

I agree that Hunt Block was great as Craig, and he was playing the role as written.  My problem with "that" Craig is that Craig had almost completely reformed under Marland's pen.  He was still a bit of an anti-hero, but he had reformed.  When the character returned with Block in the role, there seemed to be absolutely no motivation for Craig's return to the dark-side.  Why not show us that motivation, so Block's Craig would be more easily accepted?  Or perhaps Sheffer could have just created a new character for Block to play.  Or former character not so reformed, Scott Eldgrige for example.   

 

Sheffer didn't want to make the effort because all we really needed to know was that Craig was a "man with balls," so to speak. He was tough and nasty and that was meant to make us swoon. That's why he included scenes of Craig laughing and sneering at Jack for being raped.

 

I would agree Block was playing what was written, but I was never that thrilled with his performance either. I remember a lot of weird noises and a lot of deadness and coldness even in moments that could have been played differently. I couldn't connect to him at all when Bryant died - I remember cringing at his attempts to show grief. And I really enjoyed all of Block's work on GL, so I was not averse to finding him good in the role. It just didn't happen for me.  

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