As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

 

I think in this case someone was just giving an anecdote as they ran into her and enjoyed talking with her. I agree that an actor's opinion is ultimately just their opinion.

[Soapsuds]

Silly and stupid stuff like that I had forgotten until you mentioned it. The writing at the end was just horrible for ATWT. I never bought the Henry/James stuff so it easily left my mind.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Soapsuds

[adrnyc]

 

Oh yes! I got them all except the James Stenbeck one. The Bob & Kim one made me long to see more of the 80s. (At the time, I didn't know so much sequential stuff was on YouTube.) I thought the 2 weeks of that DVD set were a perfect jumping off point - I wanted to see everything from that point forward. I'm still hoping!

 

I was one of those who was convinced Henry was gay until '05. I think the everyone working on the production thought the same way. In order to put him on contract, they obviously felt they needed to pair him with someone. The Katie pairing failed miserably because those two were best friends, they could never be lovers. The actors had to have thought it was super weird as well - it came across in their performances. 

 

However, that being said, once he was with Vienna, I could see the change in the character and was forced to go with it because Henry was one of my favorite characters up until that point. (Katie is as well - I don't understand any hatred for Katie Peretti unless it's just from people who were fans of the show for years already. Coming into ATWT in 2000 - and the transformation that the brilliant Sheffer wrote for her later that year - she was part of the main reason I watched the show. Katie/Simon, Katie/Mike, Katie/Brad - gimme, gimme, gimme!!) 

 

Because I had no real connection to Vienna, I wasn't super into her and Henry - they were ok. But when they put him with Barbara - so much fun!

[Soapsuds]

Not a James Stenbeck fan?

[adrnyc]

 

I'm not trying to be super b!tchy or anything - however, I believe that there are some audience members who get so stuck on the past that they can't go with a good story because of their pre-conceived notions. 

 

That was the BIGGEST smh moment of the entire series. There were many of them but I think that's right at the top of mine.

 

I'm in the camp of "Gunnar who?" That was just soooooooo looooooooooooong away from the ending of the series. Almost 20 years! I don't understand this obsession that people have over Gunnar. I've seem some clips of that time period and he's just so bland. He does absolutely nothing for me.

 

For my money, Hal was Barbara's soul mate. However, he was dead by then. (As was Gunnar.) I thought the writers did the best they could given the characters they had.

 

But there was more than an assumption. They got word that he had died. I remember watching the characters go through that just last year. (For me, at least. Last year would've been '86-'87 for me.)

 

 

Not enough to buy an entire DVD of him. Having only watched the aughts, I only had one really good storyline of his (with which no-one on this board will agree with me) which was the kidnapping the 3 ladies so the pregnant women could have their maternity leave. I found Stenbeck to be everything the soap opera magazines were saying about him at the time - frightening, manipulative, yet sexy as hell. Pretty much every other time after that just got worse and worse - ending with that awful James-in-a-young-man's-body storyline. That was as bad as Marlena as the Devil for me.

 

Now that I've seen those episodes on YouTube from the DVD's, as well as what else exists of his first (which, now that I think of it, might only be the DVD episodes) and second tenures on the show, I'm more of a fan. Once again, I would just hand P&G my wallet if I could see the entirety of James' first stint and his battle with John Dixon. Since Gunnar is in there as well, maybe it would help to give me an appreciation of him as well.

Edited June 22, 2018 by adrnyc

[Soapsuds]

This is classic ATWT and glad it was included in the DVD releases. His return was a complete shock!

 

[DramatistDreamer]

I never had any preconceived notions about Henry's sexuality, tbh.  Hey, I'd lived in NYC and knew guys who were heterosexual, metrosexual, bi-sexual and polyamorous.  In the arts, I'd realized that identity was not as cut and dried as others made it.  I was open to see different aspects of masculinity from the ones that had been dramatized on T.V. in the past.  The problem for me with how Henry was written was that he was all over the place. No consistency, nothing to really hold onto.  He was written as a utilitarian character and the problem was when they tried to write him into a kind of leading man.  This didn't work for me.

 

I thought that Henry had a kind of chemistry with Katie (early on) and Vienna.  I don't know why but I didn't get much of that with his pairing with Barbara.  To me, it seemed a bit contrived and the Henry as Stenbeck's son bit seemed to be yet another attempt to tie these two characters together somehow by happenstance. 

Maybe the problems started for me when the show decided to parade TD around as his female cousin.  I really couldn't take the Henry character seriously as anyone's love interest or ideal after that. 

 

Maybe I'm just too picky and I know it's a soap but ATWT had always been more grounded in its storylines  and how it wrote it's characterizations(it wasn't Passions, a soap I tried to watch and knew it wasn't for me) and in the last several years, it appeared to have become completely unmoored in how characters and storylines were written.

 

Audiences can accept new directions for a character or a storyline if it is grounded in logic.  Even in the worlds of science fiction, the characters and stories must be grounded in some type of logic.  In other words, there are "rules".  To me, it just seemed as if logic went completely out the window within the last decade of the show.  Characterizations went bats*t crazy and very little was grounded in actual logic.

 

Call me old school, I care not, but to me, from a Aristotelian dramatic prospective, the storylines were just not well-written.  They lacked depth, consistency, cohesion and were mostly unmoored from logic.  I'd loved to hear an opposing perspective that specifically addresses how any of these specific storylines and characterizations in the last several years were well written.  Or even defensible.

Edited June 22, 2018 by DramatistDreamer

[adrnyc]

 

 

Yes, I'm quoting my own post here because I really don't mean that to come across b!tchy but I think there's no other way it can. I've felt that way a long time, however, and not just about soap opera fans. I feel the same way about Doctor Who fans, Star Trek fans, Star Wars fans. Those are shows I personally watched and loved for decades and now that they're being redone/rebooted/sequeled the eff up, I see so many fans who hold onto the past stuff at the detriment of their being able to enjoy the present stuff. And, where I absolutely can see that everything-is-not-for-everybody, I sometimes wonder why fans keep watching something that they no longer enjoy and then badmouth it all over the place - I think "Just quit watching it" - haha - that's what I did whenever I didn't like something - ATWT included. I missed a lot of '05 and then '07 and half of '08 because I just wasn't enjoying it. Then I came back and it wasn't the same, but I had missed the show so much that I just went with it. <cough> JanetLiberty <cough>

[Soapsuds]

Just saw this and picture quality is superb. This is the Ruxton Hills Murder. The episode following this one was included in the DVD release unfortunately this one wasn't. Unless I am wrong...I need to double check...LOL

 

[adrnyc]

 

I've got a master's degree in acting and could go full-on with you in this conversation. I think we'd both get along and enjoy a good debate. It's something that would best be done in person over coffee/wine/dinner, whatever - not in a "date" way - but I think you probably know what I mean - a message board discussion that detailed I think would make me bonkers as opposed to just a good hour long convo. However, a message board is where we are. You've already got me thinking but I must go start my Friday night. I may PM you though at a later date as our debate over things could bore everyone else.

 

I actually agree with you about so much of what you've said; however, because I did enjoy those last 18 months of the show (after kinda despising/not watching it for a few years like every one else, albeit for different reasons) I would like to take the other side and see how well I can defend it!  

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Hey - thanks for posting these!  I've actually been watching everything on YouTube for the past year and a half. 1986 and 1987 both had roughly one half of the episodes on there so I watched both of those years last year. (One episode a day M-F just as if it were still on the air - I'm a bit of a loon but a harmless one.) So I've seen those - the Hello Barbara reveal was brilliant even though I, of course, had that spoiled - how could I not? It's such an iconic moment.  Loved the Ruxton Hills as well!

 

Right now, I'm in the bowels of the 1988 writers strike. Half of this year exists as well but I've slowed down and watch just half an episode day - so it should take me all year to get through it.

[Soapsuds]

The show was awful the last year and half...the only thing good about it was this......and yet they killed him off at the end.

 

IMO ATWT best year was 1986-1987 followed by 1991-1992 season.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Soapsuds

[DramatistDreamer]

Have I taken breaks from watch?  Of course I have.  Every soap, I've ever watched, I've taken breaks.  Either because it was no longer worth my time or because I just became too busy (college and grad school). 

 

I'm a big believer in not watching something I don't enjoy but if you're going to write ten miles of bad story, then don't complain or try to guilt the viewers when the show gets canceled. 

I sense a lot of that from some fans of some shows, particularly soaps, which is why the 'O.J. defense' that the soap industry likes to use is just not a good one.  The writing quality severely declined and many soaps lost audience and could not (or would not?) do enough to get them back.

 

(By the way, wasn't it the Star Wars franchise that has recently decided to pull back on putting out more movies in the series?  From what I understand, the quality was not good in the last movie so it has caused them to rethink how they will write/produce the next film.  Wise move. Haste makes waste.)  Many of the fanboys in science fiction ground their complaints based on misogynistic and racists reasons.  Perhaps some soap fans do this also but as a woman of color, that would never be me.  I'm far from traditional, except when it comes to writing a consistent character and a storyline grounded in logic.

 

TBH.  I avoid watching most of the last decade of the show because the way the characters and storylines were written struck me as poorly written and sloppy and painful to watch.  I'm not a nostalgia nut but I believe in writing a story that makes sense.  When I was in grad school, had I submitted some of these premises that were dramatized in the show's last decade, the professor would've told me to start over.  

 

@adrnyc and I've got a M.F.A in Dramatic Writing, by the way.  Some of my work has popped up on stage with some talented actors.  I've been trained to write scripts for film, television but my passion is for the stage, which is probably why I'll never be rich, LOL.

Edited June 22, 2018 by DramatistDreamer

[victoria foxton]

The unapologetic Reid was a breath of fresh. Reid even made that twink Luke interesting. I even liked his friendship with an overused Katie. Reid was a bright spot during ATWT dreary last months. 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by victoria foxton

[vetsoapfan]

 

In the same interview, he said that Hays, Hastings, and Fulton were the cornerstones of the show. How bizarre that he included Fulton, since his team had ignored and debased the actress and her character for years.

 

 Watching Henry feign heterosexuality was as painful as watching Liberace pretending to have the hots for poor Dorothy Malone in Sincerely Yours. Eeeek!

 

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[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Yes, Scott Holmes is my favorite Tom. He just got better looking as he aged. And he had that wonderful voice. Plus he worked so well with Ellen Dolan. Plus, unlike the other adult Toms he was not interested in running off to Hollywood. So he gave the show a very stable thing by ensuring that Tom never had to be recast again. His scenes with Don Hastings and Eileen Fulton were always so respectfully played. You could believe them as his parents just by the way he interacted with them. Very professional. Also I don't remember Holmes ever flubbing a line. A lot of actors over the years would miss cues or give bad line readings where dialogue was messed up because of a forgotten word or phrase, but Holmes never did that. He was just really smooth when he was on screen.

Marland spent so much time building up the stuff with Ruxton HIlls. But as soon as that mystery was solved the place was never mentioned again. It was supposed to be some new ritzy subdivision in Oakdale. You would think one of the later families introduced on the show would have lived there. But it was totally forgotten by Marland and by every other subsequent writer.