MAB gets most of the attention, or scorn, rightfully so, but I still think it's Hogan and what I see as his hatred for women, and for the soap genre, that is behind this. His soaps all become cold, unpleasant, no family, friendships, or respect for history to be found. The woman hating is so pervasive in every part of his soaps.

With LML, at least the show was salvageable,as early MAB showed.

But now,with so many bad storylines and destroyed characters,Bill Bell himself would have trouble putting it all back together.

With LML, at least the show was salvageable

Not really.

The ship had already hit the iceberg.

My two cents, I believe a lot of this falls on Hogan Sheffer. I don't know, after ATWT he seemed to lose any ability to tell a decent story. Even some of his ATWT stuff was like ??? sometimes, his DAYS stint was like watching a slow-moving train crash into the river, and now we've got not one but two body doubles running around on Y&R. And hey I like camp actually, but...I prefer it on shows that have established themselves as campy. I don't remember Y&R ever being a campy show, so now it just comes off as desperate and bizarre. It's sad really, because my mother stopped watching for the first time in 35 years last week because its "just so hard to follow."

Edited April 22, 201015 yr by ChiTownBoi03

MAB gets most of the attention, or scorn, rightfully so, but I still think it's Hogan and what I see as his hatred for women, and for the soap genre, that is behind this. His soaps all become cold, unpleasant, no family, friendships, or respect for history to be found. The woman hating is so pervasive in every part of his soaps.

Yep. We maybe blaming MAB here, but Hogan is the elephant in the room, both literally and figuratively speaking. A lot of Sheffer's dark tortured woman tales from ATWT and Days are now being retold on Y&R. It's pretty clear he must have a lot of clout. I see it as Sheffer, Hamner, and Rauch doing all the work, and MAB simply signing off it.

Yep. Y&R was a turgid cesspool of sociopaths, narcissists, psychopaths, and borderline personalities. Everyone on the show was just like Gloria would be years later, only they wrapped themselves so tightly in their veneer of money, feeding an overactive cultural denial system. The worst people in the world, the denizens of Genoa City.

I was finally able to watch for more than a week at a time in 2005 or so, when Kevin was in jail. Him I liked. I hadn't watched a soap opera in five years at that point, which meant I'd never seen anything he did to Colleen, and thus had no obligation to hate him. I felt sorry for him, getting his ass kicked in jail. And he turned out to be Michael's brother. And they turned out to have this mother, who would eventually be played by the delightful Judith Chapman. And they seemed to want to make them the Number One Family of GC. Only then was I able to watch The Young and the Restless.

But back to the Grugeon thing. It was so refreshing to have Brad the Serial Marrier have an actual backstory. He's Jewish. Who knew? So it involved a Reliquary. It made for a better story than Brad had ever been in. Who gave a [!@#$%^&*] about his marriage to Tracey? His marriage to Cassandra? His marriage to Assley? His marriage to Victoria? And any or all of his other marriages I may be overlooking? God, if any character needed a backstory, it was Brad the Beautiful Bore.

And I could go on.

1. Thanks for the good laugh, I needed it today

2. What color is the sky in your world?

I see it as Sheffer, Hamner, and Rauch doing all the work, and MAB simply signing off it.

+1.

I sure did participate in ratsc, Jay! And it's really nice to see you here. LML was one of the things we agreed upon, at least at the start!

Hi, Mark. How are you? It's nice to see you, too.

Now we can agree on the fact that Y&R is not worth watching. I haven't seen it since March, I think. I've substituted ATWT on the days when Luke is on, particularly when he and Reid are on together. Today was excellent. Reid planted a great big wet one on Luke's lips. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven, and no one had to mail anything to TelVest or whatever it's called.

Hi, Mark. How are you? It's nice to see you, too.

Now we can agree on the fact that Y&R is not worth watching. I haven't seen it since March, I think. I've substituted ATWT on the days when Luke is on, particularly when he and Reid are on together. Today was excellent. Reid planted a great big wet one on Luke's lips. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven, and no one had to mail anything to TelVest or whatever it's called.

If Y&R really lost a half-million viewers last week (and I realize this isn't a static thing), that should be a clue. If the numbers stay low for the next few weeks...then we'll start to see some panic as they realize these insane plots are p!ssing off EVERYONE.

If Y&R really lost a half-million viewers last week (and I realize this isn't a static thing), that should be a clue. If the numbers stay low for the next few weeks...then we'll start to see some panic as they realize these insane plots are p!ssing off EVERYONE.

At first, I just stopped watching because it annoyed me so much. When I realized how little I missed it (kind of like Shirl a year ago), I decided it's a matter of principle as well. I'm just not going to watch such insulting hogwash (what is hogwash?). If they want me back, they have to fire Bell, Sheffer, and Rauch at the very least. I'm sure Janice Ferri could headwrite it beautifully.

Edited April 23, 201015 yr by Jay

At first, I just stopped watching because it annoyed me so much. When I realized how little I missed it (kind of like Shirl a year ago), I decided it's a matter of principle as well. I'm just not going to watch such insulting hogwash (what is hogwash?). If they want me back, they have to fire Bell, Sheffer, and Rauch at the very least. I'm sure Janice Ferri could headwrite it beautifully.

Sadly, I agree. Things have been bad enough long enough it is clear SOMETHING MUST CHANGE.

I still like performances and episodes (sometimes). But whoever is spinning these long-term plots is just sick, twisted, and has no sense of what viewers want. The train has LITERALLY gone off the rails with some of this stuff.

Sadly, I agree. Things have been bad enough long enough it is clear SOMETHING MUST CHANGE.

I still like performances and episodes (sometimes). But whoever is spinning these long-term plots is just sick, twisted, and has no sense of what viewers want. The train has LITERALLY gone off the rails with some of this stuff.

+1

Sadly, I agree. Things have been bad enough long enough it is clear SOMETHING MUST CHANGE.

I still like performances and episodes (sometimes). But whoever is spinning these long-term plots is just sick, twisted, and has no sense of what viewers want. The train has LITERALLY gone off the rails with some of this stuff.

I am not going to watch it again until they fire the current IIC, and I invite you to join me in ignoring it.

I am not going to watch it again until they fire the current IIC, and I invite you to join me in ignoring it.

+1

I still like performances and episodes (sometimes). But whoever is spinning these long-term plots is just sick, twisted, and has no sense of what viewers want. The train has LITERALLY gone off the rails with some of this stuff.

My, my... How times have changed?

Funny you say it now and not 55 months ago. Because it was the same 55 months ago and you said nothing. But a change is good. Better that than nothing or the same.

It's an interesting timespan, because, while some of us have been moaning and groaning about the show for ages, a lot of people were still enjoying the show. I think that there were still those who still enjoying and just didn't want to say anything or who aren't represented at some boards. It's when those viewers also start to have enough that the ratings seem to be cratering.

I will be annoyed if someone at Y&R thinks, "Hey, this is because of dopplegangers, we'll stop that, then things will get better." The show has many, many problems in many, many areas, from casting, to characterization, to pacing, to hostility towards women and minorities, to an inability to write interesting male characters, to poor attempts at romance. On and on.