Y&R: Potpourri Thread 3

[DeeeDee]

Nick, Billy, Adam, Tucker, Daisy, Ryder, Lane, Giggly Heffa & Emily.

[soapfan770]

My take on Alden's solo stint?

The Good:

--Rejuvenating Katherine and Jill and their rivalry. Sure it may have been a contrivance but it wasn't bad. Remember both characters were effectively cold, unused for most of the mid-90s. Katherine hadn't had story since Rex died, Jill was getting isolated stories when it didn't involve Jabot or John's newest stroke. Using Phillip as the cause was better than endless fighting with Nina over P4. The Billy/Mac pairing worked because it served as a further extension of the rivalry, although I think it could have been better had they SOARSed Phillip IV then before the much younger Billy to date Mac.

--Rejuvenating Newman vs. Jabot. Under Alden's solo stint Jack finally was able to wrest control of Jabot away from Victor which of course let to a renewal of business stories and the rivalry between Victor and Jack.

--She built up a teen storyline that was well-written, well-layered, and mostly well-cast.

--The reigns of terror of Diane Jenkins and Tricia McNeil. What more can I say?

--Alden used history respectively to tell a story when she used it.

The Bad:

--Who's stolen Victor's sperm this month?

--I liked Kay Alden when she first took over. I thought she did a lot to get the show moving again. But by 2001 she seemed to be doing everything entirely by the numbers, safely sticking to the number one rule of all storytelling: There must be conflict. Who cares if said conflict is utterly boring, predictable, or not very logical? (Hello to the Christine/Paul/Isabella/Michael quad!!!)

--The deaths of Ryan and Malcolm. The misuse of Nina.

[DRW50]

That was one of my favorite Y&R stories ever.

I generally enjoyed almost all of Y&R in 1998. I know those days are gone forever but I still wish we could get to a point where the show is at least coherent and not degrading.

Poor Nina. That book story was so dull. Weren't they going to have a story where the soccer coach she was dating was abusing Phillip?

I never liked Ryan so no tears from me there...

[DeeeDee]

Billy is a plot device.

He exists to move story.

[Faulkner]

MAB wishes she could create a psycho as compelling as Tricia McNeil. Try as she might. And Alden knew when to end the story.

[lmfan]

You know this whole we must keep all legacy characters is a bunch of BS. Like with Colleen. No way should they have killed her off, but the actress was not working, so she should have been written out, and could have been brought back at a different time. Yes, the core family characters are vital but to put every character who is born an Abbott, Chancellor or Newman above anyone who is not part of one of these families is a stretch. That is like saying Baby Faith is more important than any non Newman, Abbott or Chancellor character. This show isn't going to go on for 20 more years, so the legacy characters are not as important as they once were. Yes, some legacy characters are very important but not all of them.

And I don't care what people say, Chance is not more important to the fans as a whole than a Lauren Fenmore. Mac is not more important to the fans than a Lauren Fenmore. Lauren may be boring to some but how entertaining is Mac or Chance? I liked Ashley B's Mac but she came to this show in the mid 90s and was recasted poorly three times and spent years off the show, and the show did fine. Katherine has so many psuedo grandchildren that it would not be a great loss if she was written off. She was brought back prematurely anyways. They should have brought her back after Billy and Chloe has actually developed genuine feelings not the day they were married.

As for Lily, Dru is dead. Dru and Neil both came after Lauren. This actress is not cutting it and the pairing with a man old enough to be her father is a bore. I am not saying kill off the character, but MAB has dug her quite a hole with this cancer storyline that frankly the actress is incapable of pulling off. If they actually have her raising these babies, what do we have to look forward to? A 22 years old girl woman raising two babies. That's why I say write her and Cane off, recast and return her in a year or two Cane free.

Who cares about Chance at this point? Sure he is Nina's son, but he was off screen since he was an irritating kid. I like Nina but they have not developed him and he is not working. What more do we know about Chance that we didn't know in July when he came back? Nothing. So write him off and I guess they can bring him back when and if they have a viable story for him.

Kyle and Kemo Abbott, Ricky Williams, Scott Grainger were all legacy children and they are not on the show now. Look what they have done with Adam Wilson, turned Hope's son into some sociopath.

So all this we must keep these legacy characters at the cost of talented vets rings a bit hollow to me. TEB started on the show 27 years ago and is played by a long time favorite. Whatever you think of CLB, the man is a talented actor. They are not new characters and they should not be unceremoniously dumped because they are Fisher-Baldwins. Could they be written out under MAB? Of course, but losing this type of talent to keep the likes of a Christel Kahlil, Daniel Goddard, John Driscoll would be a shame in my book.

[DeeeDee]

Why should Lauren & Michael get preferential treatment?

PLENTY of couples & fanbases have been hosed REPEATEDLY in the years since Lauren & Michael got together.

And the whole "they don't have story so they should go even if they're legacy characters" doesn't wash cause TPTB are NEVER at a loss for story for The RappaDavidsons Baldwin Fishers.

The idea that Lauren & Michael are SO important the whole canvas should be adjusted FOR them & ONLY them is rabid entitlement.

[lmfan]

Give me a break on rabid entitlement. Who the hell wants preferential treatment? Who wants the canvas adjusted? Mark was stating the whole family should be fired. I was stating who they could let go if they needed to.

I want them to have a story once in awhile, like many of the other characters. Preferably one that is not wrapped around some psycho stalking Lauren. I don't want Tracey Bregman fired so we can add yet more legacy characters played by at best mediocre actors. Why is that so much to ask for?

I am not asking that all the Baldwin-Fishers get story. I want the two veteran actors to get story. I am not asking they be front burner all the time. I am asking for some story once in awhile, some presence on the show, some effort by the writers.

[alphanguy74]

Oh, Mark... I SO disagree with that!!! Remember when Beverly Archer came on as that "maid" that was hired by Jill... and then Jill brought that DOBERMAN into the house, I LOVED THAT STUFF. When Esther accidentally set the kitchen on fire during the court battle, and when Jill finally DID get ready to do some remodeling, it was the straw that made Katherine fall off the wagon. That New Years Eve party where Jill announces in front of the entire TOWN "This is my house!!! I'm taking you to court, this house, and everything belonging to it is MINE, and there is not a DAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!" And then in the court proceedings, they pulled out the divorce documents as evidence where Kay crossed out the property settlement, and then they show the flashback when she did it! To pluck something like that out of a 1975 SL and have it come back to bite her in the butt 25 years later. It was brilliance. The attic catfight!!!! the courtroom catfight!! Oh, Mark, how could you NOT have loved it! and stuff like THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVxegGElkC4

[DeeeDee]

TPTB made the Baldwin Fishers important & fans who didn't like them had to deal with that.

Now you know how they feel with Maria in charge.

It sucks but that's how it goes.

Michael/Lauren are suffering the same suck that the other couple/characters are.

Ask Don Diamont.

Join the club.

[YRBB]

MacKenzie: Yes. She was fabulous, and greatly introduced.

As for hating the Jill/Kay/Mansion story... sigh.... one of the best things on this show, ever. I'll just file this under "Mark's Illogical Frenetic Dislikes," including but not limited to Brittany Hodges. Trust me Mark, get over it. There are FAR more worthy stories qualifying for your hate.

Bell really dropped the ball during the last few years on his show... Nikki, Jill, Katherine... too much Sharon/Nick, Christine/Victor... he had some great stuff, like Olivia/Nathan/Keesha AIDS thing.... but he was tired. The show was still consistently good, but Katherine, Nikki and Jill were near ruin. The Chancellor story not only played brilliantly with the long past, but it also reignited the characters, in a fantastic way.

Yes to all the good.... I enjoyed Spermgate... thought it was a lot of fun, campy, soapy goodness.

Malcolm never should have died, yes.... and as for Ryan, I think it was poetically tragic that he died before being able to reunite with Victoria for good. Although there were still some options for him--for example, pairing him with Jill. I always felt they had great chemistry. I don't know if it would have worked, though.

And, yep, gotta give you Nina... there's so much more she could have done with that character. I wish she had done the whole baby story... she was the only one who would pull it off.

OMG, that was the original plan? I would have loved to see that.

Ah, Tricia Her slow decent to madness (over two years)... her unspoken feelings for Tony... her involvement with Matt Clark... her suicide attempt... the whole wedding thing. Just pure brilliance.

Oh, and whoever said that if Bell was writing the show during the Internet era we would be trashing him? Sorry, that's a myth. Good storytelling is good storytelling, no matter what era you do it. I cannot imagine people would complain for having a good show when, in our time, one good episode is enough to ignite pages upon pages of "it was soooooo good! " and people have historigasms etc....

BRILLIANCE.

[DeeeDee]

To be fair the bar has been lowered.

[YRBB]

True

[JackPeyton]

As a HUGE Lauren fan, i couldnt agree more.

[dm.]

I HATE these two. They stand for everything bad that ever existed in soaps.

All of these kids need to stay away from Genoa City until something is resolved on the writing staff. They'd either end up as dull as Chance or as evil as Adam.