Members Chris B Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 This just slayed me! They start so young on the Y&R set... Many of us has been disappointed with Sara Bibel's soap coverage, but her new Samatha Bailey interview was classic. She plays Phyllis' "dotter." I can't wait until they try and sign her to a contract. Eric Braeden who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 They were, reportedly, asked once, but declined. Translation: they won't be asked a second time. Nor should they. No to Trent Jones, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Ooh, they were actually asked? That is interesting to me. I think a lot of the legacy writers assumed they had -- in the Bell style -- a "gig for life". Their eradication from the show must have felt like a huge betrayal of expectation. And, like some of the actors who have had to do battle with Sony lately, I'm sure they also felt betrayed that the Bells did not somehow "go to bat" for them. I wonder if the Bells DID go to bat, but that Sony played their 51% card? It's all so curious. Houghton had a trial at B&B, but it obviously was not a success. I wonder what the story is there? And then, of course, we see what happens when legacy folks like Birn, Minnis, Alden, Smith go to B&B. The show gets WORSE. Thus, I'm with you in that I don't think these legacy folks SHOULD be back. That is probably where I disagree most with Alvin. The show was clearly better pre-LML (but not unflawed), but that seems to have been more about the legacy team still cresting on the fumes of Bill Bell...not creating anything new or worthwhile. Is there a single character or situation from the Alden-Smith era that really has any meaning today for Y&R? Most of the core families and situations were still set up by Bill Bell. This is why I'd like to see the show brought to a planned ending. It would be good to involve Alden/Smith/Houghton/Jones/whomever in the planned ending. Then, though it will never happen, I wish the network would consider investing in a new daytime drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimTolkien Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I like these points!! I would say though the reason why Sony played their 51% card is because CBS drew "first blood". I LOVE IT!! I can already understand the reason why Sony didn't send Victor & Nikki "off into the sunset". So I hope EB didn't think it was because of his sparkling personality LOL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Bill Bell set up a show which could run for many years, with the proper care. The elements he set up were long-ranging, complex relationships and histories which could still be communicated in a single glance. Long running branches of various families and love stories. It's when Y&R chose to move away from that, and got into the, "Hey, look at how different I am!" not realizing just how generic this stuff was, that the big problems began. I guess the better question I would ask is have any of the new stories or characters created since Alden and Smith had any real meaning or positive impact? I'm not too sure. If anything I think they've managed to both fumble the ball with new characters and destroy a slew of legacy characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimTolkien Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Honestly, adhering entirely to the Bill Bell structure does not work in this day and age - we apparently don't have the writers who can build on this to make it work. And if Bill Bell was still alive he would have to do some restructuring himself. It's a great thought, yes, but it is not doing what the network wants and that is increasing the audience. Unfortunately CBS is now about increasing the audience - when you have a company that most of its revenue comes from 65% of ad revenues (the other networks are not built that way) and gets it product from another provider, #s become more of an issue. Where are they? Soaps cannot survive on longtime viewers alone - right now they are in a hanging on, desperate mode. Y&R,daytime's #1 drama should be knocking this out of the park, MAB was brought in to do that..she was supposed to be heads and tails over LML. I am still waiting for her to show me that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'm not even sure if the Bill Bell structure is that complex. Have strong families. Have interesting, layered relationships between couples and families. Watch them struggle with themselves and with those around them. Bell managed to do this for over 20 years, even when he had to completely overhaul his cast halfway through. It takes work to write this, because it is a general respect for the underpinnings of drama that Sheffer and Hamner sneer at, but it shouldn't be so difficult if someone tries. Instead, we get all these "shocking" cliches which are rushed through in the blink of an eye, no fallout, no purpose, nothing, and to boot we also get dull couples, pathetic women, unpleasant men, no friendships, or families, beyond the most grudging moments, and the lamest "mystery" stories possible. It's just rinse and repeat of the same old stuff, while the foundation is worn to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimTolkien Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 You are absolutely right, it really isn't that complex, which brings us to why this is so hard. And as I said we don't have the writers to do that currently though I have to say the past 2 weeks wasn't all that terrible so I have a feeling some butting-in-ski is going on. And I am not going to nail Sheffer and Hamner to the goalposts here - I really don't care about what soaps they came from and what they did there, they are currently at Y&R now. What I get from all of this quite frankly, is that MAB has some shortcomings, Sheffer and Hamner have to make up for it and obviously their writing sends everyone into a tizzy LOL and then they get blamed for it - the scapegoats. MAB can write I know she can, she however cannot write entertaining and energetic stories that we can sink our teeth into. It is as obvious as the nose on my face. If I recall, MAB had talked about HS on glowing terms after several months of working together, surely, they are all in the industry together and know of each other's work. So what's the problem? Is her vision for the show clashing with the network/Sony in some way? Sounds like it to me. I do get the sense from the past 2 weeks however that perhaps we could be turning a corner somewhat, time will tell, I enjoyed watching a lot more than I have in the past few months so I guess that's something on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Jack Smith and co left the show at a low point, but you could see things turning for the better. The Sheila story was over and Nick and Phyllis were beginning to heat up. 2005 was a year with some lows, but the highs were HUGE. I would take that year over 2007, 2008 or 2009. I think the original team with minor shake ups would've gotten back on track and things would've been fine. Their failure on B&B is because B&B isn't the show for them. I think ABC or NBC writers would fare better at B&B. Kay Alden in particular seemed to be writing a parody of B&B during the writers strike. She mentioned thinking that show was nuts and I think that was the vision she projected on it. She looked at previous nutty stories and probably figured thats what viewers wanted to see. Personally I thought it was hilarious and we even got some good performances out of it. Especially Kyle Lowder, Katherine Kelly Lang and Hunter Tylo. If members of the team were offered a chance to return, you must consider how they'd be returning. Would be be under MAB, a script writer who hasn't worked in 15 years? It's very possible the offer they got was insulting. If they don't get asked back I feel we're in for another crappy writer who will start out decent and go downhill. I expect with each writer the show will lose more core characters and vision. I think they'll go with a big heavy hitter next....like Megan McTavish. Someone we'll know sucks in advance. Just a feeling for this next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 So, how come, Chris B, you can only come up with Smith & Alden? This is insulting to the show, that these two back would mean it being honoured or that that should flatter the viewers or whatever. Kay Alden was abysmal in many respects behind the scenes. And her sense of entitledness to run this show is even more of a turn-off. She is 63, I believe. Close to retirement, which I suggest she should do. How old is Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chris B Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I don't think they are the end all, but when you have three HWs and none have any history with the show, how can you expect that to work? I don't think Alden or Smith should've even been let go. When LML was brought on she should've been equal with one or both of them. Giving her the reigns entirely was clearly a disaster. Same with the current team. There is nobody there who understands the show or these characters. Even from a production stand point. I don't think Alden and Smith are the only options for HW, but probably the safest choices. You must consider who will most likely have the biggest imput in these decisions--BARBARA BLOOM. What soap opera does she come from? Port Charles. Do you really think those ABC rejects are going to work at Y&R? After this experiment with MAB failed she'll go back to what she knows which means another ABC writer. Whoever the choose I feel needs to be a true Y&R fan and they do need Alden or Smith as a Co-HW. I'd prefer Alden because I think she had problems coming up with interesting stories, but she wrote the characters well. I think she could reign in a new writer enough to keep it Y&R-esque and make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I can expect that to work, and how! Just because these recent choices were appalling, it doesn't prove a thing. I am sure there are many writers, inside and outside of daytime, who would know how to write this show and who would be more than glad to honour its history. But they will probably never get a chance to do so. Safe/"safe" choice is another thing that killed these shows (e.g. We need to bring in McTavish to write AMC again because her first stint was good. Look how that turned out.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aMLCproduction Posted November 28, 2009 Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 I come in here to talk about Y&R from this past week and as usual it's about the behind the scenes shoulda coulda woulda's. Look We can sit here all day until the cows come back home hoping for a writing change at Y&R. It's not going to happen no time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted November 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Oh please, B&B has been getting progressively worse for at least 10 years now, with or without those people. Y&R might have needed some tweaking in late 2005, but it didn't need an overhauling. The show was still very consistent and held true to its identity, that cannot be said anymore. Just because they weren't good at B&B, it doesn't negate the years of service they gave to Y&R. Can that be said now? You know, Maria and her "Bill Bell is watching over my shoulders" crap that she can't wait to plug in every interview. What has Maria done that's exciting, new and worthwhile? Her entire tenure both before and after Sheffer have been about "fixing" Latham's mistakes (and Maria and company only make them worse) or paying tribute to "classic" storylines. Where is the creativity in that? At least the old regime set up their own storylines and were far better at establishing a new group of character and developing them. Also, the day to day writing was much stronger than the crap we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted November 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2009 Oh please, stop sainting the frigging Bells, they're the ones who signed off on all this. It was Bill Bell, JR that signed Latham to a contract and assisted her with her "changes" and it's his wife currently responsible for running the damn show (into the ground, mind you). The Bell's could have easily stepped in with Latham was getting rid of every from the writing team to themusic department. Instead, the stood back and did nothing. Latham was a collaboration between Barbara Bloom and Bill Bell, Jr. Also, if the Bell's really cared, why have they hired people with extremely disastrous track-records to run this show? Maria has no experience, Hogan lost a million viewers at his previous show, and Hamner had a horrible run at PC and was Latham's right hand man. Where is the sense in this "creative team?" They could have just as easily supervised the show while hiring ONE Head Writer with a fairly decent trackrecord and a EP to help him/her out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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