Guiding Light discussion thread

[P.J.]

Oh, to have Maureen for the Peter saga....

Have you found a good playlist of '82 episodes in English? I've been stitching the year together from clips and random episodes mostly. The German episodes are good to fill in, but the translations are awkward at best. I found an episode in German of Carrie going off on Vanessa, and whatever Carrie says scares the bejesus out of her.

[Maxim]

Nope I'm only watching in German. 

If you can find anything 1982 to 1991 in English... please share.

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[wonderwoman1951]

re maureen and roger: i always thought that rather than driving off the road and dying, had maureen gone to a lawyer and begun divorce proceedings against ed, things could have gotten very interesting between the two of them. not a romantic relationship — though they could have teased that — but their friendship would have deepened. ed would have fallen off the wagon into a bottle of scotch, and maureen and roger aside, dealing with michelle and that fact that maureen wasn’t her biological stories.

jill farren phelps squandered so much potential story by killing off maureen. but… since buzz cooper arrived in springfield less than a month after maureen died, i’ve always believed it was to free up enough money to bring justin deas on board. 

Edited April 19 by wonderwoman1951

[chrisml]

I don't think it's interesting to have everyone in the town hate a villain if that villain is going to stick around. Maureen was definitely needed to humanise Roger. Roger and Maureen's friendship could also have come into play during the Ed/Lillian affair and created more story. When I watch the takedown of Roger scenes, it makes me angry how much potential was there for all of the characters and how JFP indeed squandered so much of that for the sake of easy/sweeps drama points. Leaving Maureen aside, Mindy became brain dead and desperate once JFP took over.  It's to Simms's credit that she made a lot of it work, but once Simms left, Mindy was never the same.

 

[vetsoapfan]

Over the decades, I have lamented many times about how crushing a blow the 1983-84 Massacre of TGL was, and how it seriously crippled the series. I don't need to regurgitate my personal complaints in extended detail...AGAIN, lol.

I will say, however, that it's gratifying to see other posters, who had been watching prior to the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era, acknowledge how abrupt, extensive and damaging the massive structural changes were.

The show gutted its core family who had been essential since 1948, changed the style, focus and tone, and chopped off most of the soaps' memorable history. 

In exchange, we got saddled with the Shaynes, the Coppers, the Lewises, the Santos mob, the Winslow royals, and a seemingly endless revolving door of irrelevant and pointless newbies. 

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For me, 1982 was the last, great year of "The Guiding Light That Was."

[DRW50]

When I got into GL around 1990 or so I didn't even notice as much that there was such a lack of a core family compared to other soaps (like ATWT) because there were several dynamic characters or actors who helped keep the canvas vibrant. Unfortunately, when most of those actors filed out in the early '90s, it did expose how hollow the show's core was, especially Maureen's death, as Alex and Mindy had been so poorly written by the time Beverlee and Kimberley left that they weren't at their strongest anyway. Maureen still felt more central. That JFP did this solely because she assumed viewers wouldn't care otherwise if Maureen died says a lot about how she approached soaps.

[P.J.]

 

Of course these are all on youtube:

Tennbelle---has Josh and Reva (and Reva/Kyle) playlists from 1984 on

SentieriGuidingLight---Italian episodes (seem start summer of 86)

Jimmuneco--random episodes from 79-91

SoapsNthings---random episodes 79-84

quintnola---focuses on the Quint/Nola romance from 82-85

Leorubysun--episodes from 1980, 1981, 1984

classicGL---videos by storyline

blakemarler---playlists from 89-07

[vetsoapfan]

If you joined TGL in 1990, then you were lucky to come in at a time after the worst of the destruction had already taken place. I honestly don't know how anyone survived watching the mid 1980s. The show rebounded more than I ever thought possible under Nancy Curlee's writing regime, and through some miracle, many in the audience had come to accept Maureen Bauer as the warm, benevolent matriarch the show desperately  needed. As a bonus, Reva was off-screen for years, so we didn't have to endure over-the-top, ham-in-a-can histrionics. The cast at the time was strong.

The resurgence did not last long, alas, and a few years later the quality of the writing was gone, some of the best actors were gone, TIIC killed off Maureen, dismembering the Bauers yet again, and show went back to circling the drain. Only this time, it never recovered, and limped along on life-support until finally being put out of its misery.

It should have been laid to rest before Peapack, honestly.

[DRW50]

I remember cancelation rumors around early 1995 AND fall 1996. I'm glad the show didn't end then (especially fall 1996, which was just a miserable time for the show), even if it probably would have been fitting, but they were extremely lucky. I know those last decades the show was kept on just through malaise and blind luck, but that sheer force of will always makes me wonder what might have been if they'd ever had a sustained period of quality in those years...and why a part of me will always wish the show could somehow be revived.

[j swift]

Looking back, isn't wild that 60 Minutes did a story on the end of Guiding Light in 2009?  It's not like 60 Minutes does a lot of CBS cross promotion.  I mean, I don't think they ever did an interview with the cast of The Jeffersons.

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  Also, a quick check reveals that they never interviewed Larry Hagman, arguably one of the biggest CBS stars ever.  CBS had other promotional opportunities, such as their morning show and other news magazines.  And I know there were also stories in the New York Times, and mainstream entertainment media.  But, it is just unfathomable that one of the traditionally highest rated shows on the network did a story centered on the idea that a soap opera was cancelled. 

Even composing this note, I imagine there will be someone who will try to argue that it was not that wild.  But, you'll never convince me otherwise.  Because that was objectively wild.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKyYmdz_PsQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGB1Tg5U7zM

 

Edited April 20 by j swift

[Maxim]

Wow, wow, wow. THANK YOU SO SO MUCH. I will be diving into this later today. AMAZING.

[FrenchFan]

Some episodes written by Theodore & Mathilde Ferro dealing with Robin's death.

#5175 – Friday, September 29th 1967

At the lodge, an hysterical Robin confronted Paul and Sara. She said she would go back to the cabin alone. Paul tried to calm her but she didn’t want his help, she said he could stay with Sara. After Robin left, Sara felt sorry for Paul. She was really hoping Robin would improve. Paul and Robin had met Dr. Walter Sanders earlier that day and he talked about his neurotic wife he had divorced from. It made Robin very uncomfortable. Sanders had insisted on how Paul and Sara met in Chicago years ago and spent time together. Paul admitted to Sara he never forgot that he proposed to her years ago. Sara told Paul she turned him off because she knew Paul was alone and didn’t really love her. Paul admitted he should have been more honest to Robin when Sara joined staff at Cedars and she became suspicious.

Paul and Sara didn’t notice Robin was listening to them. Paul asked Sara if she was in love with him at the time. She admitted she was very fond of him. Sara advised Paul to bring Robin to Dr. Lindsey and she left.

When she arrived in her cabin, Sara was shocked to find Robin seated, waiting for her. Robin told her she had listened to her conversation with Paul. She was not crazy, there used to be something between Paul and Sara in Chicago. She heard Paul had proposed to Sara.

#5176 – Monday, October 2nd 1967

Robin said she should have listened to her mother Kathy and never gave all her heart. She knew that Paul proposed to Sara years ago in Chicago. Sara assured Robin there was no love, Paul was lonely and had found in Sara someone to talk to. Robin said Paul would like her to be crazy but she was not. She was sure Sara came to Cedars to see Paul again. Sara couldn’t deny she remembered Paul when she came to Cedars as a very good friend and a teacher. She was glad he had married again since Anne’s death and seemed happy. Robin countered they stopped being happy when she lost her baby. She asked why Paul lied to her about his past feelings for Sara then. Robin told Sara she was letting Paul go. It might be a new beginning for them. She slammed the door and left.

Sara hurried to the lodge to see Paul. She told him Robin was on the terrace when she heard them talk. She had confronted Sara and told her she would divorce Paul. Sara was worried about something Robin said – « there are many ways to give Paul freedom. Divorce is only one of them. ». Paul began searching for Robin but she was nowhere to be found.

#5177 – Tuesday, October 3rd 1967

Paul told Sara that Robin was not in the cabin and that clothes were missing. Paul was very worried as he hadn’t noticed how sick Robin was. They realized she had probably left and they had to find her. They asked the clerk if he had seen Robin or if she had called for a taxi but he assured them it was not possible at the time of the night as they were out in the country. The clerk checked and Robin hadn’t taken Paul or Sara’s car to leave the mountains.

Paul told Sara that Robin might be trying to worry her. She did that once when she went to the Bauers in the middle of the night. Sara was sure Paul would get help for Robin once they were back home but Paul wasn’t so sure. Sara realized Robin could still be there and hiding, only to frighten Paul.

Back in the Fletchers’ cabin, Paul looked for Robin again to no avail. He couldn’t understand why Robin was trying to punish him. They had hard times when Johnny couldn’t accept their relationships, when she lost the baby but Paul was always there for her. Paul found a note. Robin had written : « Goodbye Paul ».

#5178 – Wednesday, October 4th 1967

Paul and Sara wondered why the note could mean. Paul felt guilty for not reaching to Robin earlier. The only option they saw was that Robin was walking towards the train station, ten miles away from the cabin. They decided to go by car and look for her.

In the car, Paul and Sara were stopped by a police officer because there had been a car accident. When the officer noticed Paul’s M.D. on his license plate, he told him there would be need of a doctor.

When Paul and Sara arrived on the site of the accident, they recognized Robin. She was the one who was run over by a car. Paul tried to call for Robin but she wasn’t responsive. Sara and Paul noticed she was probably suffering from a skull fracture. The car’s driver was very agitated. He said he didn’t understand what happened. He saw Robin with a suitcase near the road. He didn’t know if she was trying to thumb a ride of if she threw herself voluntarily in front of the car. Paul was shattered. The ambulance finally arrived but Paul knew there was no time left.

#5179 – Thursday, October 5th 1967

Late at night, Bert, Bill and Papa were back from Ed and Leslie’s wedding. They had coffee and tea talking about the day. Bert was touched Dr. Jackson seemed moved their families were tied. She was worried about Robin though.

In Leslie’s apartement, Ed carried her across the threshold. Leslie was touched the room was full of flowers Ed had bought for her. Ed admitted it was Bert, Bill and Papa who thought of the flowers. They noticed the Bauers also filled in the fridge for the newlyweds.

After eating, Leslie told Ed she felt grateful being loved by the Bauers. Ed assured their past mistakes were all behind. The phone rang. Ed answered. It was Paul. After he hung up, Ed told Leslie that Robin had been run over by a car and suffered a skull fracture. Ed was wanted for surgery. Leslie totally understood and gave him his coat.

#5180 – Friday, October 6th 1967

At the nurses’ station, Paul told Sara that Robin’s state was still the same. He was waiting for Ed to operate. Paul felt guilty. He thought he did everything he could to help Robin. He kept thinking about what the car’s driver told them about Robin maybe jumping voluntarily in front of the car. Ed finally arrived.

Dr. Canfield, member of the local hospital, greeted Ed. The doctors thought she wouldn’t survive the surgery and Sara suggested they could stop the internal bleeding with no surgery but Dr. Canfiled assured they couldn’t wait. Either they stopped the bleeing but she might not survive surgery or they didn’t and she would probably would die of internal bleeding. Ed asked Paul if he wanted them to make the decision but Paul assured he had to. Paul chose for her to have the surgery.

A neurosurgeon joined Ed. Paul told Sara that Robin had been suicidal when she lost her baby but he could help her go through. He said he wanted to help her again. Ed arrived. He gently told Paul that Robin didn’t survive. Paul put his head in his hands.

 

[Paul Raven]

@FrenchFan thank you so much for continuing to share these gems.

The Paul/Sara engagement from the 50's was a retcon by the Ferro's I think. Pretty sure Paul was established as a loner who never had time for women when he was introduced. That changed when he met Anne.

[Reverend Ruthledge]

You are correct.

[DRW50]

@j swift It definitely had a sense of tradition respecting tradition. The end of GL felt like the death knell for daytime - not because GL had been a big hitter in recent decades, but just the opposite. The show finally going was the blood in the water. DAYS was seen as likely to go soon, we knew it was just a matter of time for the ABC lineup, and ATWT was already canceled by this point (or all but canceled). I'm surprised Les Moonves even allowed it. Sad to say 60 Minutes cared more than the [!@#$%^&*] Daytime Emmys that year. 

@FrenchFan Thanks for the synopses for Robin's last days. I had never known if viewers actually saw her throwing herself into traffic or not. It's all so bleak. I'm surprised they had her mention her mother Kathy, but it's very fitting - Kathy too was so plagued by mental problems, and Robin's death closed the circle. I don't know if Irna had any ties to GL by this point but I'm sure she was proud. 

Ed's involvement feels ominous as some of the details (the cabin, the adultery, death by car) remind me of Maureen's death. There are also some hints of instability in Maureen's last days. I'm just glad they didn't try to suggest she killed herself.

I wonder how viewers felt about any of this, or about Robin in general. She sounds so exhausting. I wonder if Gillian Spencer parlayed any of this into Viki.