The Politics Thread

[SteveFrame]

Oh I forgot to add. Accountants are encouraging the ones that fall into this bracket to fix their W4's so that they are having more tax withheld. Again to fix the problem you end up negating the stimulus, because if you are having more witheld all you are doing is coming out the same as before.

[Roman]

I needed a great laugh. Thanks, Brian! :lol:

This is like a child waiting in the sandpit for the person he hates to break his leg so he can laugh and say "I told you so!"

[Roman]

Are these some of the representatives we are sending to Washington?!

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/rep-v...ored-matthew-sh

Sick and disgusting.

[MichaelGL]

I can't help but to think, please tell me again why Obama won the election if the majority of American's opposed what he supported and stood for? I know people will always cite the economy, but really? Over abortion, stem cell research, the fact that Obama wanted to talk to talk our enemies was well a known fact and put out there on every news channel, people still voted for him?

[Roman]

What kills me is this. Shortly after 9/11, Bush's approval numbers were in the 90s. Now, were only Conservatives and Republicans the ones being polled? No. The ENTIRE DAM COUNTRY got behind him and supported, regardless of walk of life.

But now the same ones who felt that "No matter who it we need to stand behind our president" when Bush was in office, come here and keeps up these childish, petty rants about Obama. They won't get behind for nothing.

Amazing. I really hope they remember that when a Republican is back in office. And to tell you the truth, I'm tired of it. If you can't stand Obama for whatever reason (including the color of his skin) whatever. The rest of us will move on and live in the 21st Century while you stay stuck in the dark ages.

[SteveFrame]

Michael I know what you are saying on that, and I agree that many did vote for him for those principles. I don't have the polls right now, but I remember Good Morning America putting up some polls toward the end of the election about the time that the polls started turning in favor of Obama putting him in a wider lead over McCain.

For awhile there esp. after the announcement of Palin McCain was leading and then for awhile it was very close. It was during this time that Stephanapolous cited that many undecideds began to make up their minds choosing finally to vote for Obama.

They asked what was the turning point for them and it was way up there in the % that it was the economy and the economy alone that changed their mind. They felt that Bush was the sole reason why the economy was in the shape it was in and that a change from his type of policies was what was needed.

So it did end up as a big deciding factor for them. As I cited before as much as there is a majority of the other reasons it was not all a moral thing. There are still some issues like gay marriage where there is still a big divide in this country. And the same with abortion. It is still an issue that almost divides the country down the middle. No side has a majority on them.

If it was all a moral thing then in a state like California where Obama won by a landslide then Prop 8 would have won big time. But it didn't which proves to me that on moral issues there is a still a greater divide than many want to admit.

Now if Prop 8 had come up in Tennessee and it got defeated it wouldn't have surprised me at all. McCain carried Tennessee by a landslide but it really surprised me in California because so many were preaching that Obama won the election totally on moral issues. They helped but Obama really got a booster shot in the butt with the economy really tanking toward the end of the election.

As far as all this [!@#$%^&*] of one party sitting around and waiting for the other party leader to tank - that is what I am talking about that turns me off of politics. We sit around every 4 years listening to this one bitch and moan and blame that party for everything under the sun, and then the other party comes into office and the roles become reversed.

There was a time when they did try to work together some but the 2 parties have gotten so far apart there is never any hope in my mind of them working together again. The moral issues and the problems that came up during the Clinton years with people like the Clintons, Gingrich, and so many others who acted like third grade children instead of leaders and representatives of our country - there is such a rift there that they will never be able to work together again. There are too many hard feelings and too much animosity there. I used to sit and laugh and think how childish Gingrich acted so many times with the way he treated the Clintons and the other Democrats and then to see the way Clinton made Gingrich sit on the back of the plane or something like that one time. I thought my children acted better than these reps of our country did.

I just think it will take years before the rifts that are there will ever be mended. Or at least it will take a long time. I do find it funny that after the last 4 years esp. when I hear Dems want to know why people just can't come together and support the President. Again it goes back to those hard feelings. Republicans have been sitting back and waiting for the chance for the shoe to be on the other foot. Now they can dog the Democratic President for the next 4 years in the same way the Democrats dogged Bush for at least 6 of the 8 years he was in office. LOL

Its a never ending cycle. The joys of a two party system.

Its like my mother used to say (she was die hard Democrat - I often said if Hitler had been a Democrat Mom would have voted for him). But anyway she used to say that it was against her religion to say anything nice about a Republican at all. And she didn't. Never did. Some people are so party oriented that they are not going to come togehter and support anyone unless they are of the same party.

Edited May 2, 2009 by SteveFrame

[GoldenDogs]

It's a tired and old line, Roman... If those of us who disagree with Obama's politics were as bigoted as you yet again try to paint us, we just couldn't be successful at all and function in the world day to day. I don't give a jolly hot [!@#$%^&*] about President Obama's skin color. Irresponsibility fiscal policy? Yes. Insane foreign policy? Yes. Inability to speak without a teleprompter? Not so much... but it is fun to watch.

Drop the whole "You guys hate Obama cuz he's black" routine. It truly weakens whatever argument you attempt to put forth. Try responding to me or guys like Steve or Kwing with facts we can't refute or some sort of evidence that discounts the points we offer rather than simply rattling off (and in a shockingly witless way, I might add) the same old rants and vanilla attacks.

Seriously, Roman. I have tried to chat and debate with you using so many different tactics, approaches, etc., and you seem to want none of it. I have attempted to befriend you with an invite for private messaging which you have blatantly ignored. The truth is that I don't give a crap anymore. You are a partisan hardass who chooses friends based on their ideology and political party affiliation. I wish it could be different because, I'll bet politics aside, we'd have an otherwise pleasant and enjoyable chat. I can disagree with people like Greg and UCLAN and not dislike them or exchange insults wit them. Why can't we do that, Roman?

I try to chat with you... and get called a racist. Go figure. Or don't. Who cares?

[SteveFrame]

I just to high five that post. I am tired of that one too. I won't even speak to a former friend of mine anymore because he throws that up with everyone who doesn't like Obama. And it is thrown up often on boards and in real life.

My dislike for the politicians I don't like has nothing to do with the color of their skin. I can't figure out why it has to even be brought up. I don't remember anyone going around and saying you don't like Bush just because he is white. I know the first time I ever said that I didn't trust him that was the first thing hurled at me was I was a racist. I was totally stunned and didn't know where it came from. I don't trust Newt Gingrich. I don't trust Teddy Kennedy. I don't trust Bill Clinton. I don't trust at least 99% of the politicians who are currently in office. And I don't trust Obama. The only thing they all have in common is they are politicians. They come from all different walks of life. They come with all different skin colors, different religions and so on. I don't trust them because of their ability to lie and that is it.

All I know is I just like you am getting tired of being called a racist just because I don't trust Obama.

[Roman]

Apparently you care, Brian, because you post these things and then don't want to take any responsibility for them or you demand that others who disagree with you are wrong

And Steve, for someone who is as negative about every single thing as you are, this is amazing. No one is doing the right thing as far as you are concerned. Nothing is working out right.

That is whatever. Brian, I would have tried to talk to you, but you haven't tried to come out with anything truthful to prove Obama is destroying the country (which is how you felt 6 weeks after he was sworn in) so now you want to sit back and cry that you are ALWAYS the one to reach out and listen? Man you are so full of it.

[GoldenDogs]

Thanks Steve... At least I don't feel as if I'm the only one with this mindset. It's ALL about values, beliefs, and political philosophy. It is absolutely ridiculous to attempt debate in a political forum and repeatedly have someone throw out that we're racists because we don't agree with Obama's leftist policies. I would have been absolutely thrilled to see President Condoleeza Rice -- NOT because she is woman, NOT because she is black -- but because I feel she is qualified to handle things in the oval office... and more importantly, it looks as if her political philosophies are more closely aligned with mine.

I still say those who play the race card most often are those with the most vile bigotry in their hearts. It doesn't have to be directed at skin color to be labeled bigotry. Roman occasionally hurls out the racist card when he has nothing else to say to underscore his point. He rarely debates passionately with logical reason... he reacts emotionally and tosses out accusations, and usually in the most hateful manner he can muster. If I had a dollar for every "Crooks and Liars" link offered up, I'd be able to pay the increased tax burden Obama's policies are creating. I don't mind reading op-ed's every now and then... but the least Roman can do is serve up the red meat of hard news occasionally! Like this one...

Study: Obama's Early Popularity Only Average Among Predecessors

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/02...n-predecessors/

Now, watch... Roman will spend more time debating the source of the news rather than actually reading the article and examining the numbers. Roman... DUDE... numbers are numbers. You seem to like Gallup, right?

I know, waste of time.

[GoldenDogs]

I take FULL responsibility for everything I have posted in this forum and stand by it 100%. ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY. And I also believe, 100% that you ARE wrong, particularly in how you conduct yourself and relate to others with whom you disagree. YES. I have reached out to you TWICE and have been blatantly ignored TWICE. All the while, you continue to insult and disrespect. Roman, sir, it is YOU with the "problem", not I.

Newsflash, oh Wise One -- I disagreed with Obama's policies before he was even elected. Dude, wake up... I felt Obama would destroy the country six months BEFORE he was elected. And you're SURPRISED?? Where the hell have you been? My opinions, which you so casually dismiss and right-wing racist fringe, have been consistent and I often provide links to CREDIBLE NEWS SOURCES to underscore my points. Like you, I sometimes post links to commentary I feel is relevant and thought-provoking... however, UNLIKE you, I don't feed the forum a constant stream of commentary from a third-party fringe blog with absolutely no connection to anything resembling a credible news organization.

And most importantly, Sage-Roman... I enter into debate with respect for others in the forum I am conversing with. This has included you, DESPITE the routine attacks on my character and the belittling and ridiculing of my beliefs and anyone else here who is like-minded. I can't believe Steve or Kwing hasn't verbally bruised your ass yet, because either one could easily debate circles around you if so inspired.

Thanks for listening and make it a great day!

[GoldenDogs]

Linked to FOX News, the source is the Associated Press:

FACT CHECK: Obama's Job Creation, Deficit Claims Questionable

WASHINGTON -- President Obama turned the page on 100 days in office with an iffy boast about job creation and claims of fiscal prudence that are hard to square with his spending.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/30...s-questionable/

[UCLAN]

Oh my! Away for a day and such ...... It's pretty obvious that this board is just a small view of the larger landscape. It's very unfortunate that this country is so polarized. I look at it this way. Pres. O's administration is all about change, a very radical change from the past 8 years. Socialist....nope, I don't think so. I think that label gets tossed out just for the fun of it.

The policies of this admin require a leap of faith...a huge one. If you don't trust politicians, then that leap would be major. I understand why some (Steve Frame) don't trust poiliticians. I can understand the disagreement. What I don't get and I don't like is all the hate, lies and fear that is being thrown out there. NO ONE here does that, but I know we're all exposed.

I have always enjoyed the comments and opinions of this board. This is the only board that I post my opinions on. ( I lurk on others).

GD you were right in the sense that 100 days don't matter. A big deal was made out of it. If we could look at an administration's performance in the scope of what happens and how it's dealt with would be better.

It's been alluded to that people can't figure out how Obama won. Well he did and we have to move forward. It's too soon to tell where we are going and what is going to happen. Our economy is recovering at a very slow place. You can see that when you look at all factors. When you realize that this administration is adhering to Kenseyian economic theory, you are able to understand their perspective and their reasoning for the direction they are headed in. We as a country are faced with numerous problems. How they are being dealt with is markedly different from the past 15-20 years. Is it the right way or the wrong way, we don't know.

That old saying "Knowledge is power" applies here. There is so much information floating around out there that you have to sift though the muck. You are aware that Obama is anti-abortion but is pro-choice. He views marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Some see Obama as far left. I live in that realm and he is most definitly not. He is a little (very little) left of center. If he was radical left, the war crimes trial would be in full swing.

On my last note, KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF SPORTS!!!! LEAVE THE BCS ALONE!. No I don't agree with their system but communist?!!. There is a bill pending in the house and one in commitee in the senate to re-vamp college football and institute a playoff system. Don't we have more important things to work on!

[SteveFrame]

I enjoying discussing too. And I enjoy looking at different opinions. And discussing them. As far as Roman is concerned, I just don't bother anymore. He and I will never agree so I just put him on ignore and unless one of you guys quotes him and I see it in the quote, I have no idea what he says anymore. It is the only way I can come in this thread.

I find the things that UCLAN, Kwing, GregGL, Jess and a few others to be so well thought out and intended that I do not want to miss out on them. For a long time I would not come in here and I missed it. So I did the ignore thing so I could come in here.

I learn so much from reading their posts and I don't want to miss it.

As down as I am on politicians I do not want to cut off myself from it completely because if you do not know what is going on and get other opinions then you have no chance of seeing if someone is doing something right or not.

That is why I love the articles I found and posted that demonstrated the first 100 days of Obama in a balanced manner.

I try to stay away from sites where there are biases like I expect Fox to be bias against him. I expect some of the others to be biased for him. I really George Stephanopoulos because I feel of so many that he presents it right down the line and calls it as it is.

I am just trying to hold out hope that for the sake of this country that Obama doesn't mess up because I just don't feel this country can take it right now. But my hope is stronger than my faith that it will actually happen.

[UCLAN]

That hope is what it's all about. Obama drives the message, but our government truly is one of checks and balances. Somewhere along the line we lost sight of that. We just have to keep faith that all will come out as the best for us.