Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Kane]

I came across an old Soap Opera Digest recently from around the time Robert Tyler left and it mentioned that his contract was originally up in June '94, which has made me wonder if the Trisha's alive fake out story was originally supposed to be his exit story. It's strange to me that they talked him into signing a six month extension just to recast Dinah Lee and have her and Trucker become supporting characters and then basically repeat the "Trisha's alive" story to write him out.

 

They never found out. Immediately after Trisha's death the family wonders what the message she left on Curtis' answering machine was about and Jeremy initially investigates, but it gets dropped very quickly. It's always annoyed me that the fall out to the '94 Trisha's alive story has Buck getting high and mighty with Curtis when, as far as Buck knows, he scared Trisha so much that she was speeding to Trucker and lost control of her car and died.

 

At one point Curtis tauntingly calls Dante "Daddy" (I think he says "Daddy's getting angry" or something like that as Dante's plan starts to unravel).

 

Not sure if it was cat food, but he fed Curtis food in a cat's bowl: 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Kane

[amybrickwallace]

Thank you. In the words of the stage manager of Loving, Brendan Higgins, "that was a crazy story!"

[slick jones]

Chris Marcantel's new project.

 

Great to see him on my screen again.

[amybrickwallace]

 

That's awesome.

[dc11786]

We have been talking about Agnes Nixon's run so I watched some May 1994 episodes yesterday. By this point in time, most of the show is solid, but, as @Kane has said, characters waver a bit. Because it's sweeps, everyone seems to be appearing, but some more than others. 

The biggest lull in story is with Angie / Charles / Frankie though they will be more involved in story by the end of the month. Charles and Angie are still trying to navigate a relationship while Charles is adjusting to the idea he would be an insta-parent to a teenager. Shane McDemott appears as one of Frankie's friends in a party sequence. The AIDS scare must be over and done with because I know another medical crisis is looming. 

What was more interesting to me was seeing Angie hanging out with Stacey and Shana during Shana and Leo's dinner party. "Loving" really slid Angie into the Trisha position. I know Shana and Angie were acquainted due to Angie's involvement in Shana's pregnancy, but I'm trying to remember if they really even made an effort to create a relationship between Stacey and Angie. I vaguely recall the two talking in the park about dating after their husbands had died, which would have been months earlier, and everyone was present for Thanksgiving at Stacey's house. I wish a bit more was done with this grouping. 

Leo and Shana have slightly more story, but only in the sense that everything is coming to an end. Shana is still talking about feeling like an outsider. We get another reference to Shana and Isabelle animosity which seems to be foreshadowing Isabelle's return. Shana has received the offer from the Italian law firm that wants her to come work for them. The two are also planning their wedding. Very different from a very earlier where they were driving story under Millee Taggart and Robert Guza. The Patti story remains very vague. Does she have developmental issues? They skirt around it never stating whether or not that there are problems. Shana and Leo have been involved in early intervention programs with Patti, but in the latest consult with the doctor, it remains to soon to determine what kind of life Patti will have. 

Also present, but sort of spinning their wheels, are Ava and Alex. Ava is still recovering from her surgery from being shot in the head while trying to remember what Uncle Harry warned her about when she was in heaven. She has finally remembered that someone is going to die. Of course, Alex doesn't believe her. There is also some very minor tension between Ava and Alex involving Trudy, Ava's physical therapist, who is constantly around and makes Ava feel threatened. One thing I will say about Trudy that I appreciate is the actress bears a resemblance to Linda Cook so I could see why an Egypt doppleganger being in her home would cause Ava some anxiety. 

Now onto the most plot driven couple: Buck and Stacey. I like Buck and Stacey. They have nice chemistry. Stacey is very relatable. I definitely see her as the soccer mom who is trying to do it all (shuffling the kids, maintaining the house, and working a full time job). I like that Nixon has emphasized that Buck comes with baggage as it is leading into his next big (but aborted) story with Janie. Buck and Stacey have been on the outs since about March when Robert Lupone's loan shark character was threatening Stacey and the kids. In order to reunite Stacey and Buck, they literally put J.J. on the train tracks and have Buck and Stacey stumble upon his friend while driving. This is a bit preposterous and stands out because so much of the show is just really strongly written. After cutting J.J. off the tracks (his dumb @ss was literally tied to the tracks), Buck and Stacey admit they love one another and end up sleeping together.

Don't get too excited though as Buck gets up and leaves moments later. To top things off, Buck goes to some random dive bar (a set I liked much more than the Rodeo Bar), gets drunk with Tess, and falls into bed with her. The Tess / Buck hook up I actually liked. Not in a way where I want them paired, but I appreciate the fact that Tess was looking for casual sex as a way of dealing with Cooper's rejection and Buck as a way to self destruct his relationship with Stacey. Also, Buck sleeps with both Tess and Stacey on the same evening, which, if it happened today, would have led to some baby switch storyline. 

The Dinahlee / Trucker / Curtis stuff is moving nicely. Dinahlee realizes she has gotten herself in over her head and that Curtis' mental health issues are going to take months, not weeks, to be treated. I do think that some of that day to day stuff is well done. Dinahlee is concerned about Curtis' lack of sleep and Curtis using this to try and get Dinahlee to spend the night (on his couch in the gatehouse). They also go to great depths to torture Curtis; he is definitely presented as a sympathetic antagonist. He still has flashbacks to his wedding day with that country song that was Dinahlee/Curtis' theme. Curtis learns that Dinahlee has taken the song off the jukebox at Pins as well as learning Dinahlee is staying at the Corinth Towers under her maiden name. Buck's annoying self has butt in, but has set the stage for Curtis' next scheme (to convince Trucker that Trisha is still alive). Dinahlee and Trucker have lots of tension trying to avoid sleeping together, which is really effective. 

@j swift While watching this, I do see more what you mean about Clay and Curtis. I think Nixon has chosen to go the mental health route because it gives Curtis a dimension that is different from Clay and Cooper. If I were writing, I would have allowed Curtis to be more sullen and brooding because, at present, they are playing Clay as sort of the casual, aging playboy, which is a role that would have made more sense for Chris Marcantel to play based on his initial characterization in the early 1980s. Ideally, I would have written Curtis and Clay as openly hostile whereas Clay would have done more to mentor Cooper, who would at times accept the advice and later reject it. This could have caused Curtis and Cooper tension, which would have sent Curtis to work for some rival of Clay's (possibly some relative of Dante's). Eventually, the Cooper / Clay / Steffi situation would have allowed Curtis to basically tell Cooper that he told him so. Also, it would have been very interesting to see what would have happened if it was Jack Forbes, not Cabot Alden, who had come back from the dead in 1994. 

Cooper manages to be different because his parents. Also, I feel like it should have been addressed either directly or in passing that Cooper's affair with Tess, an older woman, was an interesting choice given that he was sexual abuse survivor who abused by his nanny, who was also a woman several years older than him. Tess and Cooper's relationship is interesting. Both claim they want it to be just sexual even though there does appear to be a bit of actual feelings there. I don't necessarily want them together, but I like what is going on. 

Cooper and Steffi are where it is at and they have really just started. Steffi is still deeply devoted with Clay. Her eating disorder isn't really touched upon other than a passing comment about her weight by Cooper, but her insecurities have manifested in this obsessive need to have Clay love her. Clay does enjoy Steffi and Dennis Parlatou does a great job sort of balancing the icky quality of the dynamic by making Clay's concern for her at the forefront of their relationship. Clay wants Steffi to be happy. Is it because he wants to make her his wife or his new daughter? That doesn't seem clear, but it's a gray area that I find myself enjoying. Edmund Genest is appearing as the creepy Wendell Barnes who makes a pass at Steffi, while Susan Pratt is using some over the top posh accent as Wendell's socialite wife Elizabeth. There are bits and pieces of Clay's story happening offscreen which is annoying (there was a significant board meeting that we only see outside the doors and Elizabeth and Steffi have an outing that is important to getting Wendell to keep Clay in the CEO position), but overall I really enjoy this story.

Now that Tess and Cooper are self destructing, Cooper makes a play for Steffi and kisses her during an argument. Meanwhile, Deborah has hired Tommy Fontana, a sleazy PI, to get the details on Clay. Tired of Deborah manipulating Steffi, Clay tracks Deborah down to her motel room and starts throwing money at her while she is in her nightgown trying to buy her off. He completely degrades her moments before she drops the bomb on him that she has proof of his underhanded dealings (the photos from Fontana). She then requests Clay to dance with her in some wild moment of victory. As a result, Deborah is back living at the Alden mansion which is just tons of fun because Cooper has no use for Deborah's meddling self. 

Clay also has his hand in the business at the ad agency. Still owning a controlling interest, Clay leverages his power to get Tess to break up Gwyn and Jeremy, which seems to be for both personal and professional reasons. Jeremy catches on to Tess' ploy (which it is implied Tess has done on purpose) leading to a confrontation between Clay and Tess, Jeremy, and Gwyn who convince Clay to sign over the ad agency. I'm not sure when he gets control of it again, but, for now, it seems to be out of Clay's hands.

The other younger couple, Casey and Ally, are planning their wedding. Cooper makes a rather important gesture (helping Kate secure the permit to have the wedding in the park) as a way of having Cooper move on from loving Ally. Casey isn't that lucky. He remains convinced that Ally is still enamoured with Cooper or at least the life that Cooper could provide her so he has become focused on his work. He has been doing photography for the police department (putting himself in dangerous situtations) which upsets Ally. Casey quits only to be offered money by Tommy Fontana to do some work for him with a very omnious "That guy is going to get someone killed" comment from the cops regarding Fontana. 

I think this part of the year is very good. Once the initial Dante stuff concludes in December 1993, Nixon seems to have a much firmer grasp on where she wants things to be going.

[Kane]

Stacey and Angie pretty much become "instant friends." I'm pretty sure that conversation you describe about dating is the first actual onscreen interaction they have and it's played as if they're already fairly well acquainted.

As good as Alimi Ballard was when the show actually wrote for Frankie, I've always thought it would have been better if they'd brought the character on as a contemporary of JJ's (which I believe would have put Frankie at his actual age if he'd been aged naturally). The two could have gotten up to things and gotten into trouble together, which would have created story for Angie and Stacey and would have given them a natural avenue to becoming friends. Bringing Frankie on as a 16/17 year old didn't really make sense because he never had any peers on the show (even his love interests were women who were a few years older than him) and as a result he never had a lot of story of his own.

[amybrickwallace]

How did that Dante story finally end, by the way?

[dc11786]

There are four phases to the Dante story. 

The first phase (May - September 1993), Tess joins Buck in Corinth where they are suppose to conitnue their scheme to bilk Trucker out of Trisha's inheritance. By the time Tess has arrived in Corinth, Buck has already softened and doesn't want to continue with the plan. This is when we get the details about what happened in Kuwait: Tess was married Dante and had met Curtis and Buck, who helped her escape from Dante. On the airstrip, Dante caught up with Tess leaving Curtis to shoot and (presumably) kill Dante, while Tess and Buck fled the country leaving Curtis behind. At this point, Dante is presented as dead. Ronald Guttman appears in one sequence in June 1993 as Dante in a vision Jeremy Hunter has of Dante and Tess together in Monte Carlo, or somewhere else where they are gambling together. Tess uses the gun to blackmail Curtis into keeping quiet about why she is in Corinth. 

During this stage, both Michael Lord and Patrick Johnson play Curtis. By the time Lord leaves, the Dante stuff isn't getting much play (as I recall) however Curtis has already started to unravel mentally due to his father Clay lusting after his very new bride, Dinalee. 

In the second stage (about November - December 1993), you have the big Dante arc. This is where he is harassing the Aldens putting them all in danger. Dante first arrives in Corinth pretending to be Joe Young, some man who comes to live above the bowling alley. I don't remember when we learn Dante is Joe, but I know the clue was that Dante had a spider tattoo on his hand. Anyway, Joe kidnaps Tyler for a hot minute, is toying with Dinahlee, and has his mystery guest locked in his apartment. Soon, we learn it is Curtis just as Dinahlee has accepted that Curtis has abandoned her and decided to reunite with Trucker. Meanwhile, Alex is revealed to be on the case and agrees to impersonate Clay for a meeting with Dante, but things don't work out in Alex's favor and he gets caught in his own trap. 

I think the canvas finally realizes it is Dante in December when the spider shows up at the fashion show and Tess realizes it has been Dante all along. Then, there is the whole Dinahlee kidnapping showdown where Tess offers herself up to Dante in order to end all this with Dante being shot in the process and left (again) presumably dead. 

This sets the scene for the next stage, stage 3, where Dante is faking a coma and manipulating things behind the scenes. Dante has a series of accomplices (his guard, a doctor at the hospital who is in debt due to malpractice, and Egypt). The bulk of this stage is Dante helping Egypt with her plan to fake her own death in order to frame Ava. Egypt realizes she is in too deep when Dante threatens to hurt Alexis if Egypt is to say anything about him being alive. 

In the meantime, Curtis is convinced that Dante is awake; he is. Curtis tries to convince others of the case but cannot. Eventually, Dante is shipped off to surgery in a case of a wrong patient receiving the wrong surgery. I think he has his jaw wired shut or something. Anyway, Dante dies again shortly there after. Dante was pronounced dead by the doctor on his payroll so it was left vague whether or not he was actually dead. This would be late March / early April 1994. 

Finally, Dante appears again in the fall of 1994 as visions to Curtis. I think Curtis sees Dante when he shoots Gwyn. Thom Christopher reprises the role. 

The story got some heat in the press because of Dante being presented as a villain. Speculating here, but I think Nixon was hoping to revive the character once things quieted down. With that said, I didn't see much long term potential in Dante. He was a poor man's Stefano Dimera.

[amybrickwallace]

Wow, thanks. I don't see long-term potential in a character who entraps people in cages and feeds them cat food!

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[Vee]

I'll never get over Thom Christopher's incredible wig as Dante.

[amybrickwallace]

It was...something.

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[pdm1974]

I read Agnes Nixon's autobiography, and I was disappointed that there was no mention of Loving. All the focus was on OLTL and AMC. It would have been so interesting to get her take on why the show struggled in the ratings.

[amybrickwallace]

I was disappointed, too. It just seemed slapped together.

[danfling]

I always have wondered (going back to the 1980s) why Wisner Washam was not hired to write this show, especially following the departure of co-creator Doug Marland.

[FrenchBug82]

Did anyone ever explain what the thought was behind this... choice? Surely, they could see how it looked the same way we did!