Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

@victoria foxton @dc11786 @Elsa @SFK @Vee @DeliaIrisFan @Paul Raven @slick jones (sorry to anyone I didn't get) Not sure if these have already been around but someone has uploaded the first two episodes...and holy hell, the first episode has a lengthy introduction by Dorothy Lyman! I had never heard about that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3jUaUwwBf1UGEswAYEjJJQ

[SFK]

Wow! How has this gone unmentioned for all these years??  Maybe folks forgot, or just didn't catch it. I'm so glad Dorothy was picked to do it, and it really speaks to her popularity.

 

I had never heard of Rita Mae. Looks like they were going for their own version of Opal.

 

Lorna, you little bitch. That's terrible what she said to her ADOPTED brother.

 

That original Loving theme is quite pretty. I've mentioned this before, but Steve Harvey uses it on his morning show for their soap parody.

[DRW50]

 

Oh I didn't know Harvey did that. Is the parody any good? 

 

I'd read about Rita Mae but never seen her. Generally the Opal-esque offshoots on other soaps didn't seem to work out (Nadine from GL may be an exception).

[Paul Raven]

Thanks for posting.

I wonder if that intro actually aired?

There was an edit on the tape at the end of Dorothy's segment.

I'm thinking that it might have been a marketing tool used for advertisers and affiliates to get them on board and perhaps for affiliates to use in their local shows to hype Loving.

[slick jones]

Thanks for posting these.  I thoroughly enjoyed watching the episodes. I wish we got a Curtis scene, but it was great to see the rest of the original cast.  Susan Walters played bitchy so well (and still does).  Seeing the seeds of the Slater's secrets right off the bat.  Ann Williams was a treasure, and rotten to the core Garth.  I loved when Merrill shredded him politely. Bryan Cranston breathed life into Doug, and Shannon Eubanks was surprisingly lovely as Ann.  All in all, much appreciated!

[DRW50]

 

That would make sense.

 

Glad you got to see it.

 

I can see why some felt that Shannon shouldn't have been recast. She seems less generic than Callan White. 

 

Bryan Cranston is a real spark plug. You can see why he became a star.

[robbwolff]

Actually, I have recollections of seeing the introduction with Dorothy; I believe it aired directly after the Loving movie.

[Jagger1966]

I remember Soap Opera Digest doing a review of Loving a year or two into its run and in it they said it was unfortunate that the show chose to dismiss talent like Jennifer Ashe, Shannon Eubanks, Patricia Kalember and Ann Williams.  I felt the same way (although I did like Callan White in the roll of Ann).  All four of them were terrific in their roles.

[OzFrog]

 

Thanks @DRW50. These were fantastic to watch. I love how charismatic Dorothy Lyman is in that intro section.

 

Re the episodes themselves, I’ve heard a lot about the Roger/Merrill affair in passing, but it was nice to see it in action. And also helped to solidify and clarify in my mind all the relationships between the families (eg. I had no idea Merrill was a Vochek). The exposition done in just these first two episodes was written magnificently and it’s a shame it never really gained ratings legs.

 

Why did they get dismissed? I was hooked into all of them as well just in those first two episodes.

[victoria foxton]

The creepy incestuous underpinnings between Lilly and Garth. Were already in place at the very start of the show.   Jack and Lilly had a chemistry.  Rita Mae was a fun character. I'm so confused about Jack being adopted. Maybe someone can explain? I like this Ann. Loved the sense of community Doug infused to Loving. Via the party at the Alden estate. Through this party we are introduced to many of the residents of Corinth. 

[rlj]

I remember that and yes that thrmd song was used!  Rita Mae was s hoot!

[dc11786]

 

Jack's biological parents were Dane Hammond and Linda Henderson. Dane grew up in Corinth in the working class section and fell for wealthy Linda. When Linda got pregnant, her parents married her off to a wealthy counterpart, Hemsley. Hemsley was aware of Linda's pregnancy and the truth about the baby's father. Shortly after they were married, Hemsley and Linda were killed in an automobile accident. Hadden and Ada Henderson, Linda's wealthy parents, asked the recently married Roger and Ann Forbes to adopt their infant grandson. 

 

After Roger Forbes dies, Jack becomes interested in looking into his paternity. At the same time, Dane began to ask questions about Linda's baby, who the Hendersons claimed had also perished in the car accident. Jack learned from Hemsley's aunt, Millicent Whitehead, that Hemsley had informed her he (Hemsley) wasn't Jack's father. Jack eventually learned that Dane was his father and, since Dane and the Aldens were enemies, conflict ensued for the time that Dane remained in Corinth (1983-1986, 1990-1991).

 

Regarding the cast purge, the show's original two plotlines were abandoned for different reasons. I think the general consensus was that the Merrill / Roger / Anne triangle didn't work. The show didn't commit to Merrill after the affair with Roger fizzled. Merrill had some brief relationships with Warren Hodges and Clem Margolies (the Alden family attorney), but ultimately she was just shipped to Washington, D.C. after accepting a new job. I believe they even had Merrill leave town before they killed off Roger. The show may have intended to repair Doug and Merrill because it was only when Merrill left Corinth that Edy Lester arrived and quickly married Doug. Originally, there were hints of pairing Lorna and Doug. Even during the Edy / Doug storyline you have Edy's secret husband Jonathan Maitlane involved with Lorna. 

 

The claim regarding the Slater storyline the plan was to kill off Garth from the beginning. June and Lily were written out because ABC wanted to nix the incest storyline so that they could promote their telefilm "Something About Amelia" as the first time the network had dealt with the issue.  

 

@DRW50 Thanks for posting the links to these. The amount of location shooting for the garden party was impressive. I think a lot of the actors are very green, but I do think that Susan Walters really stands out. Jennifer Ashe is incredibly stronger in those later sequences posted by Ann Williams' children. I really hope that more of Lily's original storyline would show up. I'm particularly interested in the romance between Curtis and Lily's alter. It was surprising to hear Lorna state that Curtis had been chasing after Lily for a long time. 

 

It's funny. I don't have much interest in Merrill / Roger, but I thought Bryan Cranston and Shannon Eubanks were very interesting. Not necessarily as a couple, but they had a nice rapport. Lorna as the thorn in their side was very good. Mike and Noreen were much more interesting. The conflict between Noreen and Mike over having a child was nicely done. Noreen's rapport with Rose Donovan was also nice. It was interesting to see that no one had been cast yet as Patrick Donovan. Garth's manipulation of June and Lily was disturbing. 

 

It was nice, but odd watching Augusta Dabney's more grandmotherly Isabelle, after watching Pat Barry's society snob Isabelle meddling in the lives of her family in the 1990s episodes I've been watching. 

 

It was unfortunate that neither Curtis nor Stacey appeared in the episodes. Jim's introduction with Rita Mae I believe was intended to be shocking. I believe flirtatious Rita Mae makes a pass at Jim by the end of the episode before learning that Jim was a Catholic priest. 

[Jagger1966]

 

     I don't know what the reasoning was behind their exits.  With Jennifer Ashe and Ann Williams I guess once the story with Garth was over the show decided to move away from that particular topic.  With Patricia Kalember it always seemed like they didn't know what to do with her.  As for Shannon Eubanks who knows.  They also recast John Shearin's Roger Forbes with Peter Brown.  But there always seemed to be a lot of behind the scenes turmoil and abrupt cast changes during the entire run of the show anyway.  BTW, I loved Pamela Blair's portrayal of Rita Mae.  I wish she had been on the show longer.  She was great.

[DRW50]

 

Wasn't it a combo of the Merrill/Roger affair story not clicking and Patricia getting her hair cut without asking permission?

[John]

On the Loving Ladies reunion Jennifer Ashe stated taht ABC cut the incest tory eary because ABC had was ready to air on a TV film on the subject & wanted that to be ABC's big prod for that issue.

 

So maybe loss of that story made Lily easier to let go of. But didnt they recast the role later?