Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Soaplovers]

Apparently Nixon/Marland wanted this soap to be a traditional soap for the 80s.. without action/adventure, etc that was hitting on all the other soaps at the time... and romance was to be at the center of the soap.

 

From watching the pilot.. it appears like there is a murder mystery that is neatly wrapped up at the end of the pilot.. but has enough plots to carry over into a typical M through F soap opera.  Perhaps that might not have been a good idea to have the main plot resolve itself in that 2 hour movie?

[John]

I wonder if there was any attempt at all to keep Lloyd Bridges as Johnny Forbes in the very least a recurring capacity

[Forever8]

Another episode of Loving from 1992.

 

https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/story.php?story_fbid=2857928467660227&id=267680516685048&anchor_composer=false&refid=28&_ft_=qid.6813117447580331095%3Amf_story_key.-1749239617912996657%3Atop_level_post_id.2857928467660227%3Acontent_owner_id_new.267680516685048%3Apage_id.267680516685048%3Asrc.22%3Aphoto_id.1240330312840146%3Astory_location.5%3Astory_attachment_style.video_autoplay%3Aview_time.1586302454%3Afilter.h_nor%3Atds_flgs.3%3Apage_insights.{"267680516685048"%3A{"page_id"%3A267680516685048%2C"actor_id"%3A267680516685048%2C"dm"%3A{"isShare"%3A0%2C"originalPostOwnerID"%3A0}%2C"psn"%3A"EntStatusCreationStory"%2C"post_context"%3A{"object_fbtype"%3A266%2C"publish_time"%3A1586278136%2C"story_name"%3A"EntStatusCreationStory"%2C"story_fbid"%3A[2857928467660227]}%2C"role"%3A1%2C"sl"%3A5%2C"targets"%3A[{"actor_id"%3A267680516685048%2C"page_id"%3A267680516685048%2C"post_id"%3A2857928467660227%2C"role"%3A1%2C"share_id"%3A0}]}}&__tn__=*W-R

 

@DRW50 @dc11786 

[DRW50]

Thanks so much for pointing that out. I'll enjoy that one later. 

 

I watched the first March 1992 earlier. I kind of liked Clay's chauffeur - I guess he didn't stay around long? And this is near the end for Carly and Flynn too, I suppose. Flynn might have worked as a longer-term character.

 

Larkin is very charming, but he is a bit hard for me to ever get used to as Clay for some reason. Maybe because he'd been on so many other soaps, or because Clay seems so ill-defined. Dinah Lee's cycle of romances doesn't help. How long was this after she'd been brought on as a bad girl? 

 

I think the part I enjoyed most was Stacey being written as spunky and sarcastic, rather than the victim she seemed to be on most other occasions. The Wayne's World-inspired "not!" she had after Trucker left felt very fresh in a way you don't often get with soap heroines. 

[Forever8]

I watched this episode earlier this morning.

 

This episode somewhat more defined why Stacey was investigating The Tides. She wanted something to distract her from missing Jack. And her fantasy of him reciting the letter.

 

I wonder who was after Stacey?

 

It seems this is the getting closer to the end of Carly/Paul/Flynn. Location shoot in New York City at night. 

 

We also get more focus on Ally lying to Giff about being pregnant. And it is my first time seeing Ally's mother Bonnie Rescott on screen. The actress looks familiar. Through Ava, we get to find out Bonnie is not only engaged to a graphic designer but she is pregnant too. I did like Ava giving her ex sister-in-law advice on how to handle her daughter's rebellion . Bonnie comes to see Giff on campus whom inadvertently spills the beans about Ally "being with child."

 

I hope the creator of the page is able to find more episodes.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Forever8

[Forever8]

The person uploading these episodes is in a roll. Another Episode from 1992.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2859899087463165&id=267680516685048&__tn__=*s*s-R

[dc11786]

I agree the show never really had a strong theme. I think there were ideas and concepts that they tried to use, but they never were used consistently. I wonder what pieces came from Agnes Nixon, which from Doug Marland, and if there was anything left from the collaboration with Dan Wakefield. Marland joined Nixon around the time he was finishing his Showtime project, "A New Day in Eden." In the scripts I have, there are definitely some elements that Marland reused. The layout of the town of Eden is similar to Corinth, a college town with a major family operated company providing major job opportunities for the citizens of their respected cities. In the Marland years of "Loving, " the Aldens operated a factory among their other businesses. Mike Donovan had to handle some of the labor issues. Also, there was a poorer section of town known of Milltown where Ava and Dane Hammond came from. I don't think this was referenced much after Marland left, but I believe he recycled the name on "As the World Turns." A lot of these elements seems to be abandoned pretty quickly. In the 1990s, Fran Sears revived the Alden University concept, but it was pretty much abandoned by Millee Taggert and Robert Guza. Nixon had Casey and Steffi quit school. Cooper may have quit as well. Nixon, however, did revive the Alden plant with a thread involving Frankie blackmailing Cooper into helping him with Ned Delaney, who worked at the Alden plant. Though, none of this seems to ever come together to give a stronger sense of location. 

 

@Soaplovers You pose an interesting question about the pilot movie. I'm wondering if the role of distribution had anything to do with it. I know that the pilot was sold internationally as a separate entity, and I don't believe the pilot was packaged with the series episodes. I could be wrong. On the other hand, I think the nighttime premier of "Capitol" is sold with the episodes internationally. If this is the case, maybe the narrative was kept closed for that reason. With that said, it is rather clunky as a stand alone telefilm. 

 

Based on your thoughts, I do think there were ways to leave some elements more open.I wouldn't have killed off Johnny Forbes. I think I would have had Amelia shoot Patrick Donovan, who was a retired cop instead. I think killing off the Donovan patriarch would have opened more story for the Donovan clan. Also, I would have had Amelia manage to evade the police and attempt to get Johnny to run off with her. When he wouldn't, Amelia would call Cabot Alden and use something she had on him to get out of Corinth. With this, it would close the film, but still allow you the opportunities to explore story within the series. 

 

@DRW50 The chauffeur is Arthur Davis, played by Keith Grummet. Grummet stayed on as Arthur in a recurring capacity through most of 1992 and into 1993. I think he sort of stops appearing around the time Trisha dies. He pops up again in 1994. I was just watching an episode the other day and he was featured in a scene at the ad agency. 

 

I agree about Larkin Malloy. I don't think he is bad, but this version of Clay doesn't work for me. He's not bad, and the writing isn't miserable, but I don't find much use for this. Dinahlee started in August 1991. When Addie Walsh takes over as headwriter in January 1992, Dinahlee is less of a scrappy schemer and more of a victim of her own doing. I don't think this is the most interesting version of Dinahlee. I like the stuff from early on when she was harsher and not having any time for women like Stacey or Trisha. I do like her during the triangle with Curtis and Trucker. 

 

I really like Lauren Marie Taylor. She is a highlight in the Tides storyline. I like that the writers usually let her maintain grudges despite being the one the audience was rooting for. She has no use for Dinahlee for most of the next few years which I find delightful and like Dinahlee. I just watched an episode recently where Curtis told Stacey he was the one who was leaving Trucker gifts from Trisha while he is sitting at the bar. Stacey shoves him off the bar stool and onto the ground. I laughed. 

 

During the Tides storyline, Jack is trying to keep a hold of Alden Enterprises. When Clay returned in January, Isabelle was trying to find a place for him within the company despite what he had done in the previous year before leaving town (he was involved in the faulty manufacturing of airplane parts and blamed Trucker). Jack has aligned himself with Shana and they have invested AE funds in Take Off! a diet scam that is being marketed by con artist Larry Lamont. When Larry leaves town in April, Stacey and Trucker's mystery starts to peter out. 

 

This is Flynn's exit story. He dies of the wounds he sustains when he is hit by that car.

 

Ally's mother, Bonnie, is played by Lisby Larson. Her best known role is probably Paige Marshall on "Texas." I think her most recent role was Eve McBain on "One Life to Live." Bonnie returns to Corinth in February 1992 and stays through March. I think we meet her boyfriend. Bonnie loses the baby.  

 

The woman going after Stacey and Trucker is someone that Isabelle has paid. The secret of the attic room is Isabelle was carrying on a fling with Tim Sullivan, a stable hand, before her marriage to Cabot and that Clay is Tim, not Cabot's son. Tim dies during the summer. Clay learns of his paternity after Tim's death. 

 

I believe the poster said they will be releasing episodes all week. 

 

That last episode (March 30) I believe is right before the debut of the sorority/fraternity storyline. 

 

[Khan]

 

For sure, I think the early emphasis on large families from different walks of life was due to Doug Marland's influence.  Like Richard Culliton said in some soaps-related book, Marland tended to create families with tons of relatives.  You could see that even on his first HW'ing job, with THE DOCTORS, when all of M.J.'s siblings showed up for her and Tom Carroll's nuptials.

 

Agnes Nixon, on the other hand, tended to create quirky, larger-than-life characters, which probably explains Tom Ligon's character (the college football coach, right?) and his wife.  As much as I adore Marland's contributions to the genre, I can't see him coming up with characters like Billy and Rita Mae Bristow on his own.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Khan

[Forever8]

Thanks so much for your always insightful in-depth analysis.

[Sapounopera]

The adopted Prince Charming who falls for the incest victim story was told on LOVING and GL in 1983. I wonder whether Marland had planned the story the Jack Forbes/Lily Slater story for Phillip, had he stayed.

 

The Donovans remind me of a Marland family. Doug was kind of a Seth Snyder type. The Bristows were all Agnes. Early Ava was more like a Nola Reardon type. She later transformed into mini-Erica. Stacey reminded me of Hilary Bauer.

 

Who has the heart and soul / the moral compass of early Loving? Cabot and Isabelle? Not really, though Dabney reminded me of an aristocratic Alice Horton at times. Patrick and Rose were never important characters. Meryl was sleeping with a married man from day one. 

 

I loved the early years. Things got weird with the Alex/Clay mess and I never truly accepted Lisa Peluso's Ava (although I love the actress).

 

 

[DRW50]

Thanks, @dc11786 . I had no idea the chauffeur lasted that long. I can see why viewers might have enjoyed him though. 

 

 

I think Marland had been gone about a year before that story began. 

[Sapounopera]

 

I know, but it seemed weird to me that both shows did the same story. Prince Charming finds out he is adopted, falls for a sweet blonde girl sexually abused by her father.

[Forever8]

This episode contained Clay/Dinah Lee's fake wedding at the bowling alley. I don't get why Dinah is doing all of this to impress her sister.  Louie was pretending to be the priest and from what I gathered employees at the ally were in attendance and Arthur stood up as Clay's fake best man.

 

I like Larkin Malloy as an actor. But he isn't Clay Alden to me. I think Horan and Parlato had more of a handle on him. If that makes sense.

 

@dc11786 You're right about Hannah being so sweet. It feels any minute she is going to say "Oh shucks" 

 

I was glad when Gwyn came to unnerve Clay and Dinah Lee. Christine Tudor Newman looked incredible. A year or so later they will have her dress like a frump. I wish she was on my screen today in some capacity. That wedding was so tacky.  The theme was the 50's. The color scheme was pink. One of Dinah's bridesmaids I recognized the actress from Orange Is The New Black and the voice of Patti Mayonnaise from the animated series Doug. 

 

I don't mind Stacy being spunky and not backing down from investigating. As she wants a Co-partnership with Trucker.

 

We also see Carly being a wino in New York. As a homeless woman begs her for a quarter. Carly is holding onto a liquor bottle having flashbacks of Flynn's hit and run. Whilst, back in Corinth, Michael, Paul, Ava, and Kate worry about her. As Ava and Paul plan to go searching for her. 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Forever8

[Forever8]

Loving Episode - 4/10/1992

https://m.facebook.com/home.php#!/story.php?story_fbid=2865066820279725&id=267680516685048&refid=7&__tn__=*s*s-R

[NothinButAttitude]

 

Thanks for sharing. This seems like a neat channel with lots of soapy goods.