Khan

Same. As a matter of fact, I can't recall the last time GH introduced a character who didn't feel like an anthropomorphic chess piece. I mean, maybe Carly? And even SHE turned out to be some sort of miracle since, by Patrick Mulcahey's own admission, the writers introduced her with no actual game plan for her. If Sarah Brown hadn't turned out to be so interesting to watch, even without a real character to play, chances are, Carly would have come and gone without anyone even batting an eye.

True. All true. The thing is, Sonny did evolve -- that is, he evolved from what he was originally, which was nothing -- but he also DE-volved, and that's the problem.

That's because stanning for Josh Griffith requires a lot of effort. And I mean a lot.

But that would have run counter to who and what Nikki was designed to be. Casey was considered the more ambitious one, since she was a doctor. All Nikki wanted out of life, IMO, was to be adored and cared for. And I know they've tried over the years to evolve Nikki from that, to show how pursuing such shallow wants or needs has led her to a very unfulfilling existence as Victor's eternal trophy wife. But, if you ask me, it's an evolution that's never been entirely convincing. I truly don't believe that Nikki has ever wanted more out of life than what she has already. She just wants Victor to look at her the same way he looked at her back in 1981 or whatever, and he can't, because the newness of being in love with "darling Nikki" from the poor side of town wore off a long time ago.

Both.

I give Claire Labine MAJOR props for fleshing out Sonny. Before she came to the show, Sonny was just a plot device; a low-level thug, created by her predecessor, Bill Levinson, to make Karen Wexler's life hell through drugs and stripping; until he was ready to dispatch with Sonny, either through imprisonment or, more likely, through murder. (Even back then, I could easily see a scenario where strung-out Karen would have been accused of and stood trial for killing her slimy boss/drug dealer/pimp.) But, Labine saw there was more to Sonny, and to Maurice Benard, so she began giving him more emotional and psychological layers that went beyond mere villainy. Then, when she saw the chemistry between MB and VM, it was like capturing lightning in a bottle. Their initial romance was, IMHO, the best thing to come out of GH in a very, very long time. If only Sonny (and Sonny/Brenda) had stayed that compelling....

Nightmare fuel.

To me, neither Chelsea NOR Sally belong on this show. Especially if all they're gonna keep doing is fight over some doucheboat who won't give either of their panties a second sniff. Where can I see this spinoff? It sounds more exciting than Y&R!

No. It couldn't. And if that's what you believe, then you need to check your house for gas leaks, because you are definitely impaired.

Yeah, I don't understand Marlena's love for Chelsea either. You could literally stop featuring her tomorrow -- pretend she was just a figment of everyone's imagination -- and absolutely nothing on the show would be affected at all.

Agree. IMO, that's why Victor and Nikki's relationship has always been an on-again, off-again kind of thing. For Victor, the initial challenge was remaking Nikki, a stripper from the wrong side of the tracks, into a "lady." Once that was accomplished, he got bored.

Honestly, even if I was an Adam fan, I'd still be pissed over how the show is writing him these days. The fact that he's on so often would make no difference to me.

Oh, I absolutely agree w/ you, @titan1978, about Luke and Tracy. I never thought they worked as a couple...and I never will. Same. I figured Brenda/VM would return someday -- and she did, lol. To me, Sonny and Brenda were like ATWT's Tom and Margo. Once they got together, seeing them NOT together in some fashion was almost inconceivable. Even now, after all that has happened while Brenda has been away, she could return tomorrow, be in one scene w/ Sonny, and the magic would still be there. I truly believe that.

TBH, I've never seen Carly as someone who could become part of a supercouple, regardless of which actress was still portraying her at any point in time. To me, she was just too complicated. On the other hand, I definitely see Sonny and Brenda as the kind of couple who could withstand just about any obstacle you could throw at them, precisely because their chemistry just works.

I've always seen Victor as someone who was attracted to women who presented a challenge to him. The stronger the woman, the more determined he was to break her. That's why it remains a big deal how Lorie was able to get Prentiss Industries back for Lance from Victor; because she was (and is) the only woman who could beat Victor at his own game.

JG might be as sweet as pie, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the abysmal way he's been writing this show. Y&R is in a lot of trouble, and if he can't find a way to fix that, then he needs to go. Period.

I'd say it was during the early '80's, when all the action/adventure stuff began taking off.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: IDC that Ali Sweeney doesn't want to be on contract. Sami is too crucial to what the hidden spoiler suggests. If she can't be there long-term anymore, then find a recast who can. Period.

I think it makes TOTAL sense. And I think the show needs to acknowledge it, too; either through Sonny and Carly themselves, or through others' reactions to their nonstop drama. Instead, like you said, they insist on marketing it all as still one of the greatest love stories ever told, when it clearly isn't anymore. Conversely, look at Phil and Jessie Brewer. From everything that I have read over the years, even Jessie herself knew what an absolute pig Phil was. Yet, even though she always acknowledged how better off she was without him, she also admitted that there was something that was nevertheless irresistible about him, too. I wouldn't say Jessie was PROUD about that, but she was intelligent enough about Phil to know what she was always getting herself into. And THAT is how you create great, nuanced, adult relationships.

God, @Darn. Chloe's moved past it. Why can't you?

Frankly, I blame the right-wing media, going way the hell back to Rush Limbaugh. I believe they're principally responsible for the muck we're still mired in with this virus, thanks to all their decades of blather about not letting the government control people like sheep. Never mind that they've never actually been controlled by anyone OR that the ones who ARE controlled are also the ones they never give the first [!@#$%^&*] about.

The title of this thread reminds me of one of my all-time favorite one-liners on "Mystery Science Theater 3000": "It's a plot point. It's very flimsy, so be careful!"

I never thought I'd say this, especially after all the talk we've had about it in other threads, but...I think there's a way you could sell people on Phyllis finding love with another woman.

Agree. After everything that Sonny and Carly have been through, whether together or apart, we need to see some evolution from the two, instead of the same-old, same-old. If anything, when Carly first learned about Sonny and Nina, her reaction should have been almost muted, for lack of a better word. Because, my God, Carly, we've ALL been down this road before with you and Sonny on countless occasions; and how many MORE occasions must we go down it before we finally get it through our thick-ass skulls!? Then, Carly could have arrived at the conclusion (either on her own, or with help from someone like Bobbie) that if she didn't react as badly toward the knowledge about Sonny and Nina as she thought she would, or as she would have at any other time in their long, tumultuous relationship, then maybe she and Sonny are really and truly over. Because, you know, that's life. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to make a relationship work, it just doesn't work.

IKR? I keep thinking about what Ron Carlivati said at the start: that he didn't know how to approach revisiting this story until he realized that the devil was just another villain. Talk about being led in the wrong direction, lol. Johnny is supposed to be a filmmaker, right? If he is supposed to be a filmmaker, and he has been possessed by the devil, then why isn't the devil exploiting Johnny's filmmaking abilities to spread his message(s) and win souls everywhere? Why does the devil even BOTHER with DiMera Enterprises? As I've said COUNTLESS times, I really don't approve of telling stories about demonic possession, especially on a daytime soap opera that, for the most part, has never been a supernaturally-based show. (Heck, I don't think this would have belonged even on DARK SHADOWS, lol.). But, if you're gonna tell this kind of story, then tell it right! We live in very polarizing times. We have become more tribalistic than ever before. If the devil didn't sow the seeds of our current state, then he is certainly working overtime, figuring out ways to exploit it. THAT should be the message of Ron Carlivati's story: that the devil is busier than ever; and that, to quote Reba McEntire, we gotta give this world back to God. Instead, it's like we're watching the worst teen sex comedy imaginable, with a possessed Johnny panting after Gabi like some damn cartoon dog, which is a form of Hell even the devil himself wouldn't want unleashed.