Soaplovers

1997 was the last year that GL really felt like GL and the last time it had strong potential to correct itself after the death of Maureen. You had a love to hate villianess in Annie Dutton, Reva/Josh were together as were Vanessa/Matt.. and the start of Cassie was promising while you saw Blake/Holly/Roger/Ross/Fletcher front and center as well as Abby/Rick being positioned as the next generation Bauer tent couple. Who would have known 1998 would be almost the direct opposite of 1997 with Reva front and center at the expense of other characters, Dinah turning into a psycho and Holly becoming an alcoholic stalker (and I think the headwriters crafted the far superior Loving Murders which involved Gwen as a serial killer driven mad by losing her daughter and being rejected by her).

I didn't mind Gretchen in Season 4 at all, but once she hooked up with Slade she lost all purpose for me. I think she should have been cut loose after season 6.I t If I had to choose between Vicki and Tamra, I would say to cut Tamra just because Vicki is so funny to watch when she gets worked up. Every season has at least one funny meltdown moment for me. Family Van, Embarrassing Brianna on a date, surprising Michael at college, trying to reach someone in customer service, having a football hit her in the head, falling on her way up to accept an award, etc.

I think RHOC has always had cast changes so it's never been stagnant like New Jersey has gotten nor has it been as toxic as NY got in season 4. I think season 8 was starting to fall into Jersey territory (i.e. being stagnant with Tamra/Vicki/Gretchen fighting over Gretchen cheating since season 4 again with Alexis thrown into the mix since she was friends with Gretchen). With Gretchen, Alexis, and Lydia gone.. and with two or three new housewives coming on.. the show will either be recharged in season 9 or be directionless like BH was this season.

It almost seems like CH was miscast as Faith because her version wasn't wishy washy, she was upfront, independent, and totally was a strong supporter of Jill/Frank while the other three Faith's were somewhat similiar (with Faith #1 being all shy and fragile, Faith #2 being more confident but somewhat eccentric, and Faith #4 being whiny and more passive). I don't see CH's Faith ever going after Frank like KMG's character did either. Also, I just started the episodes with Mary #2 and I like her take on the character. She has some of the same mannerism as Kate Mulgrew, but she seems a little softer and not as harsh as KM was as Mary. I think had the show given her more time, I think she would have made a good Mary. I haven't seen Mary #3 or #4 yet to judge. While viewing the Pat/Delia marriage... I think both were at fault for the marriage being so dysfunctional. I think Pat should have taken a firmer line with Delia, while I think Delia needed to stop thinking of her needs so much. There were a few instances where Pat is high on pills and Delia is almost the logical one... one must question how far gone they are if Delia is making more sense then they are LOL. I am interested to see how Randal Edwards does as Delia.. but I have countless episodes to go through before getting to the cast switch. Also, love Rae! I can see why she took off quite quickly and was kept on for several years while other non Ryan/Coledge characters lasted a shorter time. It's a shame her daughter Kim was so annoying because Rae could have been a jumping off point to expand the canvas of the show beyond the Ryans/Coledges. I think part of the problem was that the Labine's kind of refused to evolve the show beyond their original format (The Ape, and the King Tut story don't count). Shame 1982 isnt available anywhere because it sounds interesting. It seems from reading monthly summaries of the show in 1982 that the Labines introduced Hollis Kirkland, and had him revealed as Kim's father while he was interacting/flirting with Jill. Shame the Jill/hollis flirtation was dropped cause it could have been an interesting reversal of Frank/Jill/Rae story from 1977/1978 with Jill in Rae's role and Rae in Jill's role.

When did Cecile turn into a cartoon?

Been watching some episodes on youtube from late 1977. I love Faith especially played by Catherine Hicks. I did find out the exact episode # that her replacement took over, and even though the script was written as if Catherine Hicks was playing the character, the new actress had a different way of delivering the lines. While CH seemed to have spirit, confidence, and a fun element... her replacement seemed a little whiny, a little unsure of herself, and more passive. It makes me wonder if Faith would have had all the perils of the 2nd half of 1978 through 1979 with Tom, if CH had stayed in the part. Or if CH would have played Faith as less of a victim.

I think the actress that played Katie opted to leave, but I think the reason that a Hilary/Jim/Katie triangle didn't happen was probably because someone backstage probably pointed out to Pam Long that Katie wasn't the type to fight for a guy, she would be the nice girl who would step aside. That said, I'm surprised Pam Long didn't write for Katie more... she seemed like the type of character Long would have enjoyed writing. Also, I noticed that Pam Long tried to recreate magic on her 2nd time especially in 1987 and 1988. I viewed the Dinah/Alan Michael/Cam/Harley story as an attempt at the 4 Muskateers part 2. While both sets were different, I still think she was attempting to have lightening strike twice.. and it didn't. Though anyone who created Nadine was a genius and I think Pam Long created her. It's a shame that Buzz's reintroduction isolated Nadine's character down the line.

For me, the trouble for GL started in fall 1984 with the pointless death of Hilary. It seemed like the show was hinting at a Tony/Annabelle/Jim/Hilary quadangle when Hilary was killed off. I think she could have been of great use in the late 80s especially when Roger/Holly came back onto the scene. Oh well. Plus, I did see a few 1983 episodes with Hope and she seemed more interesting to me. It seemed like the show was gearing up for a War of the ROses types of story between Alan/Hope when she suddenly was written off. I could have imagined Alexandra siding with Hope in her divorce due to anger with Alan over losing her son Lujack.

This is probably unpopular, but I actually was kind of bored with Marland's GL. I actually liked Pam Long's GL much better, though I do admit Infinity was not a great story nor was the mysterious Cain character (though I think Pam Long was gone by the time that story played out).

Oh dear... Brandi will appear on RHONY. Guess the witch isn't satisfied with hijaking one housewife series, she has to try to hijack another one. Smart that she isn't appearing on Atlanta cause Kandi, Nene, and Kenya would slaughter her. LOL That said, NY looks interesting from the previews. We have some fights, some fun moments, and family scenes.

I did read somewhere that one of the original plans for the final episode was to have Jo and Stu married but that Pam Long nixed it because she thought that the characters would never think of each other in a romantic light and had the idea to have the final scene between them as they looked at the Christmas lights. I can't judge Pam Long's tenue at the show since she was only there for a few months, but judging by the fact that the final scene between Jo/Stu was her idea, I think she might have been a good fit long-term.

Do you think had the show continued on, that L. Gideon might have put more of her own mark on the character of Liza? Afterall, she had only played the part for like only a year or so.

I wish there would be at least one episode without fights and just have each housewife shown in their day to day life without any interaction between the women. My fav scenes of the last episode were scenes with Yolanda and Kim with their daughters. Heck, I even liked the scenes of Brandi doing her photo shoot for her book and I think her editor is the sort of person that Brandi needs in her life. Someone who would steer her in the right direction, not coddle or mother her like Lisa and Yolanda do. I liked the party scenes until Carleton had to muck it up by starting trouble with Kyle. I kept wondering what set off Carleton and you could tell that Kyle was thinking the same thing.

Do you guys think that the lower ratings during season 5 was one of the reasons the show was hesitant to revamp Jersey? I think the producers could have added one new housewife to Jersey, in order to keeps things somewhat fresh.. like how they added Lydia during season 8 of RHOC.

We saw Kim's kids in season 1, but not in season 2 nor 3. I still remember Kim and Kyle's trip to the grocery store where Kyle was making fun of Kim buying I can't Believe It's not Butter while Lisa in a TH was questioning what it was LOL Then it turned out that Kyle's favorite dish that Kim made had I can't Believe It's Not butter.. and her face was priceless LOL I'm glad that Kim's private life is being shown, though too much of the dog was shown. I know Kim used to go to Disney functions, perhaps the show can't film when she goes to Disney get togethers or something. That could be why we've seen little of Kim's adventures in autograph and Disney land.

I think the Kyle and Kim scenes are what the show should be about. Kim is a former child star, basically a has-been and that authograph showcase showcased a different part of Hollywood while I'm happy to see Kyle's guest stint on DAYS was filmed. Carlton totally doesn't belong on the show, and she was totally talking about Kyle behind her back.. Pot meet kettle.

Were there any characters created by Marland on ATWT that would be considered campy, or zany? I know Shannon, Lucinda, and Barbara had their moments.. but he didn't create those characters. Perhaps Julie?

For me, Jax is the type of man that you'd have to shower after checking out, alone sleeping with him. He's good eye candy, but I'd certainly not touch that with a ten foot pole. I don't get the gay vibe from Flat Iron Tom, but Tom Swartz gives me the vibe a bit. Especially with him throwing girls underwear on stage when ever FI Tom is performing in his band. Stassi is such a bitch, but she owns it and is entertaining. Kristen and Katie=no words and Scheana is so funny pretending to be 'above' the drama LOL

This looks like the start of the Dobson's with Nick, the bookstore burndown, and Barbara making mysterious visits. When do the Dobson's start to dismantle the structure? Interesting that Annie and Barbara are roommates and friends. It would have been interesting to have seen Annie's reaction to Barbara and Emily's feud. Though I agree that the character was played out by the time she left in 1984, though I think Dee could have survived long-term if this Dee had stayed on instead of being recast by a more boring actress.

At first, I figured that it was because Marland was just starting out in 1980, but the Dobson's were just starting out in 1980 at ATWT and 1980 is being shown for that.

I don't think the Dobson's were horrible, just probably not a great fit for the show. At the same time, it all depends on what type of tone one enjoys. For me, I found good stuff with Marland, but I think he was also over-rated at the same time. Plus, the Dobson's were known for quirky characters and off the wall stories.. which seemed to fit GL and SB.. just not ATWT.

So on RHOBH, we are subjected to scenes of Kim with her dog or Carleton during some pole dancing and picking up girls for a 'sexy' pool party while on RH of Atlanta, we have some great scenes of gossip and cattiness. Though I don't think the fighting on next weeks Atlanta episode is a good thing because I like a show where put downs and slightly raunchy words are the way to go.

I agree with the previous poster who mentioned that the recurring housewives are adding some extra drama to Atlanta. I like that the housewives have basically slaughtered Mynique and Natalie, while being unable to slaughter Marlo. I think if Marlo can go another round with the housewives then she certainly deserves a spot as a cast member in season 7. Given all the crap Brandi has been spouting off in real life, I can't believe one slip up that Marlo said back in season 4 can still be unforgiven. I do agree that the lack of recurring housewives in BH this season is one of the many issues this year. In previous seasons, you had Faye, DeeDee, Dana, and Marisa to add some variety and cattiness. I understand why Faye opted to sit out this year, but certainly you could have had Marissa or even Brandi's friend Etrisa on more often. I also think the OC has done well with the recurring housewife starting with season 6 with Jeana/Lynne, season 7 with drunk Sarah, and season 8 with Lauri. I wonder if there will be a recurring housewife for season 9? I've heard that the new housewives have caused some waves during filming in a good way, so exited to see how season 9 fares once filming and editing are completed.

What Atlanta seems to have, that BH is lacking this season, is a perfect balance of the women together but also having interesting scenes by themselves with their family and friends.

Do you think the show was short-sighted turning Jill into a psycho? She was a pretty decent gray character that had friendships with Mack and Karen, a decent snark partner with Abby, and a built in rival in Paige given what happened to Peter. I think the Jill going psycho and trying to kill Val seemed out of left field for me, imho. Plus, with the departure of key characters, I think she would have been a strong player in the later seasons.