DRW50

I wouldn't say the stories should never have existed...I just meant it's depressing going back to that time and feeling the panic and the tilt toward what Guza brought in, followed by the panic over what happened when his filth stopped working for viewers, and the swerve into where the show has been over the past decade. I wish there had been a world where the stories had been better received, although I guess those trends were inevitable.

It matters in the sense that I think the reaction they had to the ratings helped lead directly to where we are today. With that said, if the show was capable of telling these stories now, I'd support them. I'm just not sure viewers as a whole would.

We have, yes, with people who lash out at the story and even send out threats and act like lunatics, but seeing people act physically sick over the whole thing and go on about how Drew was her abuser...that was what felt new to me.

They were, yes. Unfortunately, the response to those (ratings drops and the ushering in of Guza and his sicknesses) does make me wonder again if soap viewers just didn't want to see the real life illness plots. I didn't see any of the older plots either - if there were a large amount of painstakingly realistic illness stories on soaps in the '50s and '60s and '70s, my apologies to the people who wrote them.

I see what you mean, but I would say that only wanting a soap character to have any kind of passion with one character and being so vehement when that doesn't happen is also part of the new puritanism.

I think he's been used a generous amount given his very limited range. I respect him for trying today, and I know he's been going through a lot recently per the article about Kamar, but when I just see the effort, I can't connect. It means that those writers and soaps in general in those years were more likely to be vague about soap illnesses than later writers who felt more obligated to try to write a specific illness even though they weren't capable of making it feel real. People remember the legendary issue stories, but most illness stories back then were not so detailed. The abortion plotline is another subject entirely and I'm not sure what I should say about that part.

It used to be, but I'm not sure these days. The demos who watch soaps now don't seem as interested, younger people don't seem as interested, etc. Looking at the response to Nina/Drew, for example, outside of a few fans, reminded me of how much times have changed. I hear people say they want to see a character being a ho, but the reality seems to be different. I do think the show needs stronger relationships in general, along with actual storylines and characters who have more of a spark to them. The scene where Finn was over Gregoy's corpse, weeping, looked like someone trying to recreate a painting. You could sense the "moment" rather than feeling a genuine response. Coronation Street is currently telling an ALS story which has gone on for over a year, and they've shown the loss of function over that time - no longer being able to walk, or speak, and recently, putting in a feeding tube. I question whether viewers actually want to see this (it hasn't helped the ratings, although Corrie, like all the British soaps, is just about unwatchable these days anyway), but they are committing more. Generally, I do feel like daytime just isn't a great place for this type of plot - much as we all probably used to laugh at "soap opera disease" when we were younger, I wonder if Bell, Nixon, Irna, etc. had the right idea.

I do wonder if there is any particular heat with the twenty/thirtysomething cast, or if any attempt at such is just stumbled upon. Even if Chase left and Amanda Setton got down and dirty, this just isn't that type of show. I know DAYS has a lot more sex, but any time I watch and see them try it just feels cold and forced to me, not helped by charmless Ken dolls like RSW. So even if GH did go in that direction, would it work? Is it worth the effort? I saw some of the Dex and Joss scenes today, which admittedly were not meant to be hot stuff, but I was reminded of how old and played out Joss feels - even more than her mother. The one younger couple I can remember interesting me, somewhat, in recent times was Spencer and Trina, and you know nobody at GH gave a damn about that pairing.

I think that's what led to the therapy story and flashbacks and the visit home, yes. (Hubbard later complained about how the whole thing played out onscreen but I still give Marland and Caso a lot of credit for taking that swing) I need to rewatch some of that soon. I remember some lovely scenes where John went to visit her at the stables or somewhere. That whole period of ATWT, 91-92, will forever fascinate me (well, mostly).

The handling of the betrayal is compelling because there were so many different angles. Connor wanted the company and also wanted to punish Lucinda for her own insecurities and hurting her father. Evan and Kirk just wanted power. Holden felt he owed nothing to Lucinda because she'd already treated him like garbage. There was no good and no bad. Lucinda did pay, but unlike when OLTL did this with Dorian and she would have to go on outlandish revenge schemes, Lucinda refused to let them get her down and she retreated with dignity, only to come back stronger than ever. The whole story was very mature and I could care about everyone involved. One of the few times a corporate espionage story on a soap was worth watching, and a reminder that you can tell these types of stories and have years-long consequences even without a lot of misery or slaughter.

As so many old writers were pushed out, newer people would not know her. If they had brought her back, she likely would have drugged and raped Holden and tried to kill Lucinda and Lily to get their money.

@Vee https://deadline.com/2024/05/fred-roos-dead-francis-ford-coppola-godfather-producer-1235925291/

Freeze and watch frame-by-frame and I bet every one has Katie.

The lack of progressiveness would actually work in this case... I think the show makes a token effort, mostly through Joss and her burgeoning male harem. The viewers they might have gotten through Sprina they seemed to actively resent, for sadly obvious reasons.

The Trump campaign openly saying he will lead a "reich." Yet so many in the media and the public will still tell us both men are the same, or Trump is better than Biden. https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-2024-rhetoric-germany-antisemitism-31002afb91b642c0314223d19e51f427

I think the idea of Kyle had potential (much more than what AW did with Sharon Gabet), and I think he worked well with Kim Zimmer and most of the other people in the cast. His acting was theatrical, but this was a very theatrical era for the show. I just don't believe the stories were compelling - they were unpleasant (everything with Roxy), convoluted, and gave you no real reason to care. The Maeve material was like something out of a '30s movie, and in order to avoid having her get into it with Reva, Miss Sally had to run around doing everything. Leslie Denniston was also extremely dull as Maeve. If P&G were going to try to find a role for Sharon Gabet, bringing her in as Maeve might have been more interesting. I can already see the print ads - "The one woman who could come between Kyle and Reva."

There is a genuine pushback among younger people about sex scenes in movies and television. A viral tweet went around from one of them saying they wanted the Hays Code to return. I don't know if the treatment of Chase and Brook Lynn is meant to appeal to that audience. Probably not. I get the feeling the show mostly gave them a big wedding because there wasn't anyone else to do that with at present and this was initially planned as a moment of change/a new era for the show, until the caving and backpedaling began.

Oh I've already said a few too many times lately how dull the show was for me in 99/00. I stopped watching regularly around that point. I have to admit I did like Jerry. The Lucky "death" makes sense as well. I mostly remember her being put into that dull, dull pairing with Stefan that you could tell no one at the show gave a damn about.

She's been around, helped by Spencer's presence, but I do think the core of the character has not been there in a very long time - probably since that fateful maternity leave (not that I am blaming a maternity leave, more how the whole thing ended up playing out backstage, allegedly).

Thanks @Soapsuds And how could I forget that badass guitar riff. Here's to you, Chris Goutman.

We should all flush a toilet in honor of that opening.

I don't think it would make a difference. I remember some fans used to send death threats out to actors during the Liz/Jason/Sam years. And of course Laura got those types of threats when she was at GL.

The bad blood between Genie and GH or ABC over her extended maternity leave helped to disenfranchise the character, followed by Guza and Tony Geary's clear contempt for her (and need to turn her rape into her rapist's pity parties and her son berating her) created a hole for her that she never got out of. Then we have Geary's contempt for any Lucky not named JJ, plus JJ's depressing return that pleased no one and kept him away from the show for good, plus JMB's lousy turn as Lulu followed by a poorly received recast, followed by all the tragedies with Tyler Christopher... Pretty much everything went against Laura and her relevance on the canvas. I have to admit I've never cared about Laura, and I don't think Genie Francis is that fantastic, and even I would agree she's been disrespected in so many ways when you think of what she did for GH. The only reason she is there is lip service. I won't claim the treatment of Tracy is top-tier (especially the degradation of her when she was married to Luke) and is likely going to decline with Mulcahey's departure, but still, if you were a viewer in 1980 and someone showed you Tracy's relevance vs Laura's in 2024, you'd be shocked. (once you get past the shock of someone from 2024 being in your house to talk to you about a soap)