2 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

Most of that was because Bergman got his way right? (Luna dying etc...)

 

Yep.

37 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Yep.

of course he did....oops, I meant Luan....LOL

4 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

Y&R's on set dialect coach insisted his name be pronounced Rall, which is what most of the cast did.

 

However some of the vets did what they wanted & referred to the character as Raool (Jerry Douglas was notorious for this).

 

For as much of a failure as Diego was (mainly due to Greg Vaughan) the Gutierrez family had it MUCH better than the poor Voliens. That story was one of the most racist stories in Y&R history. Up there with Tyrone painting himself white to infiltrate the mob.

Two white saviors learn their friendly neighborhood chinese takeout lady left a baby behind in Vietnam. They travel halfway across the world to find him which they do (after a week) living like Mowgli IN THE JUNGLE as a fullgrown adult.

 

Said fullgrown adult speaks almost perfect English yet has no idea of American customs and idolizes white women.

 

After a year of pouting & trying to screw any white woman he could get his hands on his LONG SUFFERING NOBLE mother eventually dies from a terminal illness he takes his sister AND RETURNS TO THE WILDS OF VIETNAM.

 

If that was the case then that dialect coach should've been fired. I have some Cuban ties and I've been to the island once and that is NOT the way you pronounce Raúl, not in Cuba (which is where the Gutierrez family was supposed to be from originally, no?) and not in either of the Spanish speaking countries I've ever been. Maybe France where it's Raoul.

 

Y&R had some embarrassing storylines involving POC for most of the 80s into the early 90s. Even Drucilla's introduction was stereotypical. Maybe due to Rowell and Williams' influence characters like the Barbers and the Winters veered away from the stereotypical writing that Black characters were often associated with on Y&R.

 

Phillip Moon (Keemo) has been on GL and ATWT and all I can say is he was a martial arts practicing bad guy on GL, which also bordered on stereotype. ATWT was probably less of a stereotype but he was still a bad guy. Y&R, I think was his last soap opera gig before he went onto big and better roles like the Joy Luck Club.

Edited November 25, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

The way that the dialect coach explained it at the time was that particular pronunciation was how people in the Midwest would say Raul's name.

 

Which somewhat makes since when one considers Genoa City is sandwiched between accent heavy mid-western states like Minnesota & Illinois.

 

There were a LOT of complaints about Drucilla's initial introduction (as there were with Jazz & Nathan) but Bill Bell's genuine commitment coupled with Vicki's tireless work in front of & behind the scenes is really what made the overall story work.

 

Y&R took all the tremendous work those actors did for granted & still do. Poor Kristoff is still there trying to keep Neil relevant but Y&R has made it clear (many times) that have no use for him or Neil as anything other than a token.

 

Phillip Moon is a great actor & Keemo had the potential to be a really interesting character but all that potential is gone now because of a certain actors "issues."

 

Much has been made about Eric Braeden's diva antics but other Y&R actors are just as bad but because they're beloved actors and/or part of popular couples they get free passes.

Edited November 25, 20169 yr by DeeeDee

13 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

@ajsp35801 Yeah, all soaps in the last several years have made the mistake of saturating the audience with storylines surrounding a new or relatively new character, which is a sure-fire way to build viewer resentment against these characters.

 

I still think, if done thoughtfully, it's not too late to write Hillary better.  I have been reading all the Y&R posts (though I admit I haven't watched the show in some time) and I think the environment they've put Hillary in is all wrong for the character.

Y&R needs to put Hillary back in a corporate environment. When Hillary is part of a team, you see more sides to the character, you can see the calculating side, the side that is about preservation and self-interest but you also see the side that is all about delivering a professional job performance for the good of the company.

 

Hillary should be a thorn in Jill's side at Chancellor Industry. Devon, as a major investor who practically helped deliver the company out of Victor's grasp into Jill's stewardship could have wrested a place for him and Hillary on the board of directors and Hillary could have twisted Jill's arm into creating a lofty position for her withing CI. Jill, thinking she could create a 'nothing position' with a lofty sounding title, could pretend to go along but surprise, Hillary carves out an actual career out of paper job title.  

It could be a lot of fun, seeing Jill pushback against this, despite the fact that deep down both know that they actually work really well together.

Tons of corporate-related storyline posibilities there.

 

Sounds great. But Devon also needs a title there. Part of the issue is that viewers seem burnt out on Hilary using devon's money to prosper. Especially  when it has been made clear she doesn't love nor deserve him. They've got to fix that before they try anything with her again unless it doesn't involve his money at all. 

8 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

Y&R's on set dialect coach insisted his name be pronounced Rall, which is what most of the cast did.

 

However some of the vets did what they wanted & referred to the character as Raool (Jerry Douglas was notorious for this).

 

For as much of a failure as Diego was (mainly due to Greg Vaughan) the Gutierrez family had it MUCH better than the poor Voliens. That story was one of the most racist stories in Y&R history. Up there with Tyrone painting himself white to infiltrate the mob.

Two white saviors learn their friendly neighborhood chinese takeout lady left a baby behind in Vietnam. They travel halfway across the world to find him which they do (after a week) living like Mowgli IN THE JUNGLE as a fullgrown adult.

 

Said fullgrown adult speaks almost perfect English yet has no idea of American customs and idolizes white women.

 

After a year of pouting & trying to screw any white woman he could get his hands on his LONG SUFFERING NOBLE mother eventually dies from a terminal illness he takes his sister AND RETURNS TO THE WILDS OF VIETNAM.

 

Well when you say it like that....

@ajsp35801 I would actually have Devon be on the board at CI and attend board meetings and pop in from time to time (to see Hillary and possibly try to talk her out of doing something shady/vicious in her ongoing war with Jill) but other than that I would have him in something completely unrelated to the corporate part of CI.  

 

Devon's adult character, believe it or not, seems fairly under-developed but from what I've seen, he does not appear to be a corporate type. Now, if Chancellor had a philanthropic arm, I could imagine Devon running that, given his life story- deciding what organizations/non-profits that Chancellor helps fund.

 

Also, with all these so called 'Tech Whiz' people in GC, doesn't it strike you as odd that there is no dedicated tech company in this city? Devon could invest in a company or be a founding partner w/Kevin and perhaps they lure Victor's new executive assistant to the startup.

It's time to grow these characters 'the hell up' and start having them run businesses of their own.  The next tech related scandal (hacking, sex tape uploaded), there would be a dedicated company that characters could go to for help. In cases that are criminally related (corporate espionage via hacking or money laundering using digital currency), they could still work with the GCPD

 

Did I mention too, that I think it was a mistake to put distance between Sharon and Hillary? They had good chemistry and if ever Hillary were at CI, she could bring Sharon in as an ally, which would give Sharon the potential to be active in storylines that don't involve Newmans. It could also be fun to see Sharon try to negotiate out of tensions created by Hillary and Jill's drama without aliennating either one.

 

Honestly, these scenarios practically write themselves, if only Y&R would bring their characters and storylines into the 21st century!

Edited November 25, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

On 11/24/2016 at 1:36 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

My most vivid memory of the Raúl character is that nobody could pronounce his damn name properly. Seriously, these people are his friends, how hard is it to learn to pronounce the guy's name? They didn't have the roll the r's but I was convinced that there was any true respect for a character from that time on.  It sounds like I'm joking but I'm serious, maybe because I grew up with a guy named Raúl and it strikes me as totally dismissive that no one would insist that anyone, I mean anyone would learn to pronounce his name properly.

 

The less said about Diego, the better. This had me convinced that Y&R wasn't serious about building a Latino family for the show any more than they were serious about building an Asian family with Luan, Keemo and his sister Mai.

 

The consistent mispronunciation of Raùl will forever make me cringe!  I hated YR for that!  

It always sounded like they were talking about Rowlf from the Muppets.

 

 

I realize Y&R was and is a profoundly white show in most ways but I can't believe no one stepped in to correct them on that. 

They should have just made it simple and given him a name like Jose or Pedro. As it stood, every time someone said his name it was nails on a chalkboard.

Thank you. I'm not alone!! Julio, Pablo...those names are practically impossible to fumble. I knew a guy named Francisco but everyone called him Cisco for short. There are so many names, LOL!

I was a fan of Diego Serrano from his AW and liked him on Y&R until he got shafted for the Charmed castoff Greg Vaughan got the part(I didn't mind Vaughan later on Days but still). 

 

Still can't believe that MAB wasted and humiliated Raul's character in 2009 either for a Billy/Mac pairing that went nowhere.  

Very fair points on the introduction of key POC by Bill and it was actors who made it worth Y&R's trouble to write the characters better - Dru and Malcolm. I mean this is a show that had a character named Mamie and then after years of being beloved, recast abruptly. But it wasn't limited to minority characters. Think Phyllis, JT and Brittany. All three were one-note stereotypes meant to push a somewhat short-term plot. But it was the actors who made the difference. What's lacking is the writing - I look at shows like Lucifer and HTGAWM and they have very diverse casts but everyone is part of the ensemble and the actor's ethnicity doesn't define the character or put limitations on how they are written. The way Y&R isolates POC actors by having them on a couple of times during the week (and usually all in same episode) has certainly created a sense of difference and it's always bothered me. I mean, have Hilary (without Devon or Neil in the episode) show up at Jabot to support her friend Jack and then gets into it with Ashley and Phyllis or Devon being a friend to Abby during her divorce (not her mother who is her estranged husband's ex) with no Hilary or Neil or Lily in sight, etc. 

 

Even though I've rarely been a fan of Bryton - except when he was in scenes with SN and JC - he's been hampered by wretched writing and storylines that don't suit him or do anything for the character. Maybe pairing him with CG would work. She seems to make everyone, she works with a better actor, cough, JM and EB. I really hope the new regime gives him a worthy story and finally give his character a better definition of who he is. Considering how many years he put in, Bryton deserves that. 

14 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

@ajsp35801 I would actually have Devon be on the board at CI and attend board meetings and pop in from time to time (to see Hillary and possibly try to talk her out of doing something shady/vicious in her ongoing war with Jill) but other than that I would have him in something completely unrelated to the corporate part of CI.  

 

Devon's adult character, believe it or not, seems fairly under-developed but from what I've seen, he does not appear to be a corporate type. Now, if Chancellor had a philanthropic arm, I could imagine Devon running that, given his life story- deciding what organizations/non-profits that Chancellor helps fund.

 

Also, with all these so called 'Tech Whiz' people in GC, doesn't it strike you as odd that there is no dedicated tech company in this city? Devon could invest in a company or be a founding partner w/Kevin and perhaps they lure Victor's new executive assistant to the startup.

It's time to grow these characters 'the hell up' and start having them run businesses of their own.  The next tech related scandal (hacking, sex tape uploaded), there would be a dedicated company that characters could go to for help. In cases that are criminally related (corporate espionage via hacking or money laundering using digital currency), they could still work with the GCPD

 

Did I mention too, that I think it was a mistake to put distance between Sharon and Hillary? They had good chemistry and if ever Hillary were at CI, she could bring Sharon in as an ally, which would give Sharon the potential to be active in storylines that don't involve Newmans. It could also be fun to see Sharon try to negotiate out of tensions created by Hillary and Jill's drama without aliennating either one.

 

Honestly, these scenarios practically write themselves, if only Y&R would bring their characters and storylines into the 21st century!

 

I like the tech start up idea. But there is no power in philanthropy only. let's not do to Devon what has been done to neil. Having Neil run some foundation is there attempt at making neil his own boss without giving him a corporation and real power.  Any character is  the business type if written that way. plus, I'm over Devon's money purchasing everything yet not providing him the day to day story that comes from running the business.  And so are other viewers if you go by complaints. 

 

I think I am one of the few that didn't care for the Sharon and Hilary friendship  I felt like it was a poor attempt at plug and play hilary as Drucilla with her married to Neil and all. I can't help but think I'm correct because as soon as the show realized that hilary didn't have a future on the show as Neil's love interest, they dropped the friendship. MiM nor Hilary need the Dru comparisons that comes with being Sharon's friend. I'd much rather see Hilary friends and rivals with the women in her age range. And I think that is now what the show is doing with the Hilary/Mariah interaction. If they were smart, they'd build up that younger set using Devon, Mariah, and Hilary. Let Sharon stick with the 40 year olds. 

 

 

2 hours ago, edgeofnik said:

Very fair points on the introduction of key POC by Bill and it was actors who made it worth Y&R's trouble to write the characters better - Dru and Malcolm. I mean this is a show that had a character named Mamie and then after years of being beloved, recast abruptly. But it wasn't limited to minority characters. Think Phyllis, JT and Brittany. All three were one-note stereotypes meant to push a somewhat short-term plot. But it was the actors who made the difference. What's lacking is the writing - I look at shows like Lucifer and HTGAWM and they have very diverse casts but everyone is part of the ensemble and the actor's ethnicity doesn't define the character or put limitations on how they are written. The way Y&R isolates POC actors by having them on a couple of times during the week (and usually all in same episode) has certainly created a sense of difference and it's always bothered me. I mean, have Hilary (without Devon or Neil in the episode) show up at Jabot to support her friend Jack and then gets into it with Ashley and Phyllis or Devon being a friend to Abby during her divorce (not her mother who is her estranged husband's ex) with no Hilary or Neil or Lily in sight, etc. 

 

Even though I've rarely been a fan of Bryton - except when he was in scenes with SN and JC - he's been hampered by wretched writing and storylines that don't suit him or do anything for the character. Maybe pairing him with CG would work. She seems to make everyone, she works with a better actor, cough, JM and EB. I really hope the new regime gives him a worthy story and finally give his character a better definition of who he is. Considering how many years he put in, Bryton deserves that. 

Sally has said that they are developing his character and asking those questions about who he is that no one has asked before. 

 

But truth be told, Devon is not the only character  suffering from this. Noah and Kyle have suffered as well. They all need career paths. and despite a the focus lily has gotten since she was 14, she needs a career and development too. most  any character under 35 besides Faith. go figure. 

 

POC aren't the only isolated characters. no character really interacts outside of a love interest and rival plus family. I've also never understood the complaints that POC are isolated. They aren't anymore than anyone else. Just think, when has Billy interacted with anyone other than a love interest, rival, or family. same for Sharon. Nick. vikki. That's how the show is constructed for everyone. 

Edited November 26, 20169 yr by ajsp35801

5 hours ago, Juliajms said:

They should have just made it simple and given him a name like Jose or Pedro. As it stood, every time someone said his name it was nails on a chalkboard.

 

Raúl is a simple as Sharon, Nicki and Victor. It was very disrespectful to continue to mispronounce the name. 

 

Brittney used to call him Rowl and I would literally cringe. 

14 hours ago, edgeofnik said:

Even though I've rarely been a fan of Bryton - except when he was in scenes with SN and JC - he's been hampered by wretched writing and storylines that don't suit him or do anything for the character. Maybe pairing him with CG would work. She seems to make everyone, she works with a better actor, cough, JM and EB. I really hope the new regime gives him a worthy story and finally give his character a better definition of who he is. Considering how many years he put in, Bryton deserves that. 

 

I love CG and believe she could work with anyone but I firmly believe that soaps have to get out of the tendency to look to pairings to do the work that character development should be doing.  

 

If you've heard my rants (and there were many) about the 80s Super Couple being the best, then the worst thing to happen to the soaps, I really think the idea of looking to pair off characters doesn't work unless each individual character has their own unique foundation that has been built on strong writing and character development. I honestly believe this is the best (and easiest) way.