Members Skin Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 I would say the show's positioning of Sami definitely changed through out the last 7 or so years. This need to shape her as a heroine has been so mystifying to me and it's fallen flat on its face because Sami in general just isn't a good character. She is a selfish one, who wants her needs to be put above everyone elses and the character only works if you call a spade, a spade there -- which is what they weren't doing for the longest time with Safe and Lumi. It's not so much that Sami didn't do Sami like things, but that she was never called out for it or deemed wrong for her actions all of the time or even when she was on those seemingly rare occassions you had other characters who were made to be inferior to her on a moral scale even though Sami was a thousand times worse (i.e. Carrie, Nicole, Adrianna, Taylor, etc.) I was glad that Will threw her name in the mud a couple of times just to even the scales a bit. Ultimately Sami felt this need to be "good" that never made sense and was completely unlike the JER classic Sami who was who she was for better or worse. I just disagree. Sami was no victim, and she never has been. Sami is the victim of her own machinations -- she always has been and forever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 They def shifted her to more of a heroine role, but even in that role she was scheming, she was plotting. She just wasnt winning and was always made out to be EJ's victim. Her motivations were not selfish, childish ones anymore but ones she thought were for the good of her children. Thats a good shift, a good direction, it was just the execution of it all that failed. Even when she was in this heroine like role, she took on the good girls of the show - as you mentioned. the only bad one was Nicole, really, and it was nicole swapping the babies that truly shifted sami into heroine. Im not sure how you dont see her as a victim in the last few years, your honestly one of the only people ive come across who see it that way. i guess perhaps because she lied and schemed against ej and kept secrets from people? but even if she was actively doing bad things to other people, id have a hard time not seeing anyone who is raped, tortured afterwards by said rapist, has her kids taken away, family turn their backs on them, losing a child, finding out about a baby swap involving their child, having that child kidnapped - twice, and then that child being presumed dead, husband cheating on her with her sister, a psyco ex swapping her husband with a fake doubel who is boarderline abusive, etc... as not a victim. jer's return was one of the worst things to happen to sami, imho. he totally made her act like a teenager again. im not here for that anymore, i want an adult sami brady. she can scheme and lie and be her own worst enemy, but she doesnt need to act like a kid to do it. then she really suffered when she was the only female lead for so many years and then as the only lead alongside nicole/ari who was playing the villian so sami became the heroine even tho it didnt work. ideally they would have carrie as the good girl, sami in between, and nicole as a villian i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 Sami's always been selfish even "Good Sami" was selfish. She was never an objective do gooder such as Marlena, Hope, Jennifer or Belle for instance. She was always insanely self centered and self focused on what worked best for her, and she would with the drop of the dime do the wrong thing to better her own position and then try to make it flowery and goodness and light to get people on her side. Sami has always done that regardless though, even back in the 90's the only difference is the show went above and beyond to paint her as a heroine/ingenue and it so obviously didn't work. The audience saw selfish actions and saw that they were disguised as selfish actions but the show made her this saintly view point character that never existed and it fell apart like a house of cards. As to Sami as a victim I don't see it that way because literally every action that has caused Sami heartache and pain has been because of something she herself caused to initiate a catalytic action that had consequences for something she initially did. Every bad thing that has ever happened to Sami can be linked back to something she had a hand in. It's the same general principal that always gets her into trouble. Notice how it's always Sami's actions that are held against her when she is at risk of losing every happiness she scrambled to get. It makes great soap because it's the greatest irony their ever is. Sami's "rape" occurred because she tried to set EJ up with John and lured him out into the middle of nowhere with the promise of seduction and a romantic getaway -- had Sami not committed that action and try to entrap EJ he never would have been out in the woods needing a ride to escape the situation Sami placed him in. What does this mean? The bartering arrangement never would have came into existence or occurred at all because EJ wouldn't have been there. Which means yet again, Sami's own actions continue to cause her problems and effect her adversely, surprise surprise. I don't see the rape as rape because Sami agreed to sleep with EJ in order to save Lucas from dying, EJ is under no obligation to do anything. Is EJ ethical? No, hardly but what standard are we measuring by? Both Sami and EJ are evil villains who aren't supposed to have any moral high ground. I can't fault EJ for not doing the heroic right thing when he is under no such guideline to do something he isn't obligated to do. He isn't John or Bo, he's EJ. Prime JER villainous Sami wouldn't go out of her way to help anyone either in fact she probably would have bulldozed over them just to get what she wanted. Which is what she has done and which is what EJ did. Sami gets her kids taken away from her, why? Because she shot EJ in the head when he was disarmed, drunk and sleeping posing no threat to anyone. Why am I supposed to see her as a victim when she put herself in that situation and EJ only retaliated after Sami tried to murder him? I am supposed to feel bad for Sami for the Sydney situation when Sami did the same thing to EJ with Grace? Again why? It's not rational to feel bad for her. Sami causes her own pain and her actions have equal consequences here. I am not saying EJ is right, but Sami is no victim and never has been. She is complicit in her own suffering due to her own lies and deceit. I will agree that Sami was definitely a victim during the fake Rafe saga, but EJ was also a victim during the night Sami shot him and pulled the tape confession to blackmail him into not getting a chance to see his children. They both cancel each other out in terms of being victimized. EJ and Sami are true equals because they both inflict pain and hurt the other very deeply and thus it's an even reciprocation of hurt and pain. Neither one of their pain is worse or any better than the others. Sami isn't inbetween, she's a villain and she is at her best when she acts that way, she always has been and she always should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 I guess i dont see rape, torture, kidnapping, etc as an acceptable, rational, understandable retaliation and that's why i and many did see her as EJ's victim for so long. And Again, I do not want Sami to be this villainous character, that isnt her, never has been, and never should be. She is irrational, selfish and impulsive She makes bad choices that blow up in her face. That isnt evil, it isnt villainous Her motivation being good bad actions being bad is a dynamic role for a character, and is absolutely where she belongs. Shes not a vivian type thank god, and is truly more of a kate but hopefully they can make her less pathetic. kate isnt really a villian, she does bad things but her motivation is understandable for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hope looked like sh-t yesterday. Her hair and that outfit was just wrong on her Surprisingly, Jen looked great. Loved that hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jfung79 Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 Wednesday was fine, though not as exhilarating as Tuesday. Wednesday was also a Melissa Salmons episode. It was mostly a pause and setting things up for more in the next few days with Brady/Kristen and with Will getting the tape in the mail. Scenes still rang true, and show was entertaining enough for the most part. I think the writing team is taking a good approach as a whole at showing where the characters are coming from, and writing true to that, so I would not worry as much as KMan101 if there was scriptwriter turnover, though I do love what I call the All-Star team of largely P&G-trained scriptwriters and would hope for nothing to change. (BTW thanks, KMan101, for the positive words. Also I only started watching recently so I can't comment much more about EJ, but I don't think EJ is boring or one-dimensionally good/noble -- it is still possible to imagine him coming up with a Machiavellian plan like Lucas suggested to Will; that's what I meant by his not being defanged. Plus I think it's a good thing if a character grows and changes over time.) I do think Salmons is the best. I am a longtime Richard Culliton fan but I think he takes shortcuts sometimes like people talking to themselves a lot. The other scriptwriters are all pretty good too. Monday only seemed blah to me in comparison to the amazing run that Days has been on for a month. Agree Soapsuds, Will is kind of stupid right now not to at least suspect Nick a little. But I still love him. Glad Rafe and Kate didn't treat last night as just a mistake, and the Will/Gabi story is already tied into it as I was hoping. I am glad about Kate's instincts honing on to Nick. Hopefully Rafe will warn Gabi about Nick if he notices anything. Michael, I don't think Rafe saw or sees what he is doing with Kate as lashing out at Sami at all. He has truly fallen for Kate, you could see it in his eyes and the dialogue in the morning after. It could be a way to get over Sami, but it's not lashing out. Agree about looking forward to Sami and Lucas's reactions, AllMyDaysatGH. Glad other posters are enjoying Rafe/Kate too. Still rooting for Jennifer. Daniel is getting on my nerves the way he seems to have become oblivious to Chloe's obvious plotting (obviousness which Jennifer called Chloe out on Wednesday). Enjoyed the Jennifer-Chloe confrontation. Enjoyed Jennifer confiding in Hope. Hope annoyed me a bit saying the Hortons will all be behind Nick. She should have been trying to play a mediating role and saying she would talk to Sami or Will, showing concern for Will's predicament too. Like that Rafe acknowledged his own actions might have set EJ or Sami off to suggest the paternity test thing, I think Stefano works well in small doses as someone who is kind of commenting from afar on the phone. I'm not sure if I'll like it if he's in town interacting with people and trying to push his agenda on his kids. Glad there were flickers of Kristen being genuinely concerned for Brady again. I don't say it every time, but LOL, Cheap21, always love your posts with the pictures and the witticisms. Hope Sonny is on Thursday, and not just in a flashback like the one on Wednesday which showed how obsessed Nick is with blaming Sonny for things and how paranoid Gabi is getting. It's Valentine's Day so hopefully some movement for Will and Sonny ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 what bothered me about that line is that Will is a Horton as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jfung79 Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 Indeed, me too. I was actually expecting Nick to say, "But Will's a Horton too," instead of what he did say, which I think was "I know"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 Will and Hope have never had a relationship tho. She doesnt have one with Lucas either. She has always been vocally supportive of nick, even when he went cray. She and Julie have been positioned as Team Nick with Jennifer and likely Maggie going team Will, it could be good to see the hortons have this infighting. Abby would be in the middle, and Lucas while obviously on Wills side is truly a non factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 I didn't think there was anything wrong with Hope sticking up for Nick. Its just that line felt odd from a writing standpoint bc they are BOTH Hortons. The baby is going to be in the family regardless. Hope supporting Nick in this does make sense. Man it makes me wish it was she Rafe was getting involved with bc of the drama with Sami. Hope helping to keep Sami's son's baby away from him AND she's sleeping with her ex? I want to see that drama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 But again how does this not relate to Sami who has done the same thing at several points in time? Everything EJ has done, at some point so has Sami. Sami's motivations are not good or pure. Keeping Will from Lucas is not a good motivation, saying that Lucas beat his child and lying about it is not a good motivation, Trying to sell her sister on the black market, drugging Austin and having sex with him (raping him), trying to separate Austin and Carrie by telling them they can't have healthy children is not a good intention or a person who is motivated by good intentions. None of what Sami does comes from a good place, it comes from a very selfish place where she is only thinking about what benefits herself and other people don't matter when it comes to that. She will destroy entire lives to get what she wants, and none of that is good. Understandable motivation does not equal good motivation. I can read Sami like a book, but that doesn't mean that she is a good person. She never has been, she is the classic soap bitch antagonist at the heart of her core (i.e. typical soap bad girl). She is not a good girl in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlexElizabeth Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ms. Chandler Quartermaine Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 I think Blake is soo hot, to bad they ruined his character Also, Brian is so damn charming, that smile is gorgeous. And for once I actually saw chemistry betweem Will & Sonny during that shower scene! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marlenafan Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 I've always thought that Nick was somewhat sexy from the front . Now if he would lift a little more weights and just chizle out his body a little more without getting too big, he would be HAWT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members teplin Posted February 14, 2013 Members Share Posted February 14, 2013 I was stunned by that shower scene today. Brief though it was, it showed a lot of guts on the part of Days and NBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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