5 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Paul didn’t need to be front burner but after that very unfortunate story, he seemed to slip even further down the chain to “talk to” to nonentity.

Paul was slowly marginalized.

First he lost family members over the years. Patty was brought back as a psycho and written into a corner.

Heather was given 3 recasts then dumped.

Ricky is SORASED, is a psycho and dies.

He's remarried to Christine but LLB hardly appears so he has no personal life.

A retcon gives him Dylan as a son, But SB leaves and the character is forgotten.

They never played his connection to Lauren.

So Paul is pretty much an island. And when he did appear in a police capacity he was always gruff or seemed disconnected.

I think Doug should still be there in some capacity.

 

You would never know Paul and Lauren were married watching today's show. I was suprised seeing how much of a gentleman/player Paul was in the 80s and early 90s. I think Paul's drif into oblivion started after he got ran over by Phyliss, even moreso by the early 2000s. He and Chris have become a boring old couple. 

I dont remeber much of Nina's second run the late 00s, but after her first stint that was it for Nina as a leading lady. Her best stories were up until the David Kimble saga ended. After that it was a repeditive triangle with Ryan, Cole and Victoria. She did have some interesting scenes surrounding Ryan and Tricia's affair though. 

Spermgate, Michael and Chris becoming more than work collegues and Paul raping Chris was the point the show chose scandal to bring in or stabilise viewers and began abandoning subtstantive story telling and character development. The insemination story of 99/00 wasn't so bad that the show couldn't just move on and forget it to a certain extent, I hate the story and what it did to three characters, but it was a minor dint and I could get over it. John Smith returning in Jun 02 was the point that these types of stories were becoming more common. The 02/03 season was a travesty and for me it only got worse over the next few years until I stopped watching completely in 06. The other big one from that time was Sharon making the moves on Victor, the true end of Sharon. And another being Lorie's return, which did not respect the legacy of that character and made her a simp for Victor, like every other woman. 

Bell's foundations were so strong that it took years to really unravel, but 2000 onwards was the beginning of the end. 2001-02 is the point I can no longer keep watching the show anymore. I don't even watch episodes when they pop up from that era on. 

I think Bell's illness getting much worse, Ed Scott leaving and Smith taking over all happened during this same time. 

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by will81

15 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

A retcon gives him Dylan as a son, But SB leaves and the character is forgotten.

And bringing on a grown @ss son that Paul had with a woman who has been committed to another man (to the point of obsession) was never going to get Paul back to being relevant.

I think 

On 4/14/2022 at 8:02 AM, ironlion said:

Christine & Michael! What do you guys think about this, and what was the general concensus back then? I think this would be controversial given that he attempted to rape her, reminds me of when OLTL's Todd & Marty almost got together, minus the amnesia.

The Kelly Simmons story was a complete silly mess and I didn’t think Christine should have ever gotten involved with Michael. Friends sure I could see but Michael, even when he was hanging out with Diane, Phyllis, and Marisa but he was still obsessed with Christine and involved himself in her life a lot. She should have known better but I guess Paul had to be trashed with the rape for them to even go there. 

Isabella also could have been recast and not gone crazy either, the character itself could have gotten a lot of mileage out of it.

I liked Paul and Christine together but the problem is they were the hero and heroine of the show as well as both peripheral characters so they could easily fall into the doldrums. Like her and Danny before, she and Paul were boring by themselves. 
 

Paul was better with vixens like Cassandra and Lauren; maybe in 1993 Christine should have gotten entangled with Brad by helping him out legally over custody of Colleen, which would have put her in the crosshairs of Lauren and, well the way she was written from 1992-94, a NASTY Traci on the warpath. Or Christine could have fallen for a sexy new bad boy PI working with Paul who was edgy with questionable ethics with a troubled past including his jealous ex-wife Phyllis lol.

 

odd to see y&r tackling politics so heavily in this scene, ABC soaps were always adept at this.

 

6 hours ago, will81 said:

Spermgate, Michael and Chris becoming more than work collegues and Paul raping Chris was the point the show chose scandal to bring in or stabilise viewers and began abandoning subtstantive story telling and character development. The insemination story of 99/00 wasn't so bad that the show couldn't just move on and forget it to a certain extent, I hate the story and what it did to three characters, but it was a minor dint and I could get over it. John Smith returning in Jun 02 was the point that these types of stories were becoming more common. The 02/03 season was a travesty and for me it only got worse over the next few years until I stopped watching completely in 06. The other big one from that time was Sharon making the moves on Victor, the true end of Sharon. And another being Lorie's return, which did not respect the legacy of that character and made her a simp for Victor, like every other woman. 

Bell's foundations were so strong that it took years to really unravel, but 2000 onwards was the beginning of the end. 2001-02 is the point I can no longer keep watching the show anymore. I don't even watch episodes when they pop up from that era on. 

I think Bell's illness getting much worse, Ed Scott leaving and Smith taking over all happened during this same time. 

As i've said before, 2001 was the last of solid y&r. early 06 is when the show started dying and 2012 was the end of the any semblance of quality. Bell had a specific vision and the show died with him. Other soaps have been able to sustain regime changes. Not this one.

4 hours ago, ironlion said:

Other soaps have been able to sustain regime changes. Not this one.

This show was a unique product, the vision of one person who generally knew exactly what he was doing.  Once that vision is gone (and heaven knows it's BEEN gone!), you're really just left with a mess.  Kay Alden could copy Bill Bell's style, but not his quality.  Jack Smith is a bumbling fool.  Lynn Marie Latham didn't know what Y&R was even supposed to be.  Maria Arena isn't a writer, and the writers she employed to do her job were frivolous and ill-informed. Sally Sussman could copy Bell's style, but was likely crippled by lack of planning and SONY's interference.  Josh Griffith is scared to take a chance and do anything unpredictable.  Charles Pratt is -- well, he shouldn't have been there.  Neither should Mal Young.  There's just evidently no one who can straighten out this mess.    

10 minutes ago, Broderick said:

This show was a unique product, the vision of one person who generally knew exactly what he was doing.  Once that vision is gone (and heaven knows it's BEEN gone!), you're really just left with a mess.  Kay Alden could copy Bill Bell's style, but not his quality.  Jack Smith is a bumbling fool.  Lynn Marie Latham didn't know what Y&R was even supposed to be.  Maria Arena isn't a writer, and the writers she employed to do her job were frivolous and ill-informed. Sally Sussman could copy Bell's style, but was likely crippled by lack of planning and SONY's interference.  Josh Griffith is scared to take a chance and do anything unpredictable.  Charles Pratt is -- well, he shouldn't have been there.  Neither should Mal Young.  There's just evidently no one who can straighten out this mess.    

Bill Bell I think was able to not let any network interference ruin any of his vision. I think the CBS/SONY people have been the real villains of everything wrong with the show for almost 20 years...even if there have been a lot of talentless hack writers and EP's the last few years.

I'm curious of how you would describe Bradley Bell's "vision and style" for B&B considering he's been HW for almost 30 years and has made many foolish decisions and can't really sustain any long term stories for the last almost 20 years. 

Edited April 17, 20223 yr by YRfan23

I guess Bradley Bell knows what he's doing.  It's a 30-minute show that always looks hastily slapped together without much forethought, planning, or depth.  Watching it is a mindless exercise, but it remains popular both here and abroad.  My feeling is that Bradley Bell has the attention span of a gnat, and his target audience likely does too.  So I guess it works for him.  

The networks have sought for decades to "dumb down" the other soaps to the B&B level, as that's what evidently appeals to the masses these days.  

20 minutes ago, Broderick said:

I guess Bradley Bell knows what he's doing.  It's a 30-minute show that always looks hastily slapped together without much forethought, planning, or depth.  Watching it is a mindless exercise, but it remains popular both here and abroad.  My feeling is that Bradley Bell has the attention span of a gnat, and his target audience likely does too.  So I guess it works for him.  

The networks have sought for decades to "dumb down" the other soaps to the B&B level, as that's what evidently appeals to the masses these days.  

My sentiments exactly! and I'm sorry but the fact he pays more attention to the success the show has had abroad and their fans, VS hear in the states I think is one of the most problematic things this show has....I have this feeling they prefer the show the way it is and not what we know it can be. 

It's just a shame we are stuck with him till the bitter end. Y&R has been a shallow mess for years now, but at least we can still count on multiple stories being shown as bad as they've gotten. 
 

Edited April 17, 20223 yr by YRfan23

1 hour ago, YRfan23 said:

Bill Bell I think was able to not let any network interference ruin any of his vision. I think the CBS/SONY people have been the real villains of everything wrong with the show for almost 20 years...even if there have been a lot of talentless hack writers and EP's the last few years.

I am certain that the less Bill Bell was involved the more corportate interference crept in.

I kinda feel sorry for Charlie in the American Dream clip.

Not only did he have to suffer a tongue lashing from Victor, he was further punished with a song from Brock!

Ah yes Victor- a country where you can lock someone in a bomb shelter and get away scott free or throw a woman from a moving vehicle without consequence....

20 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I kinda feel sorry for Charlie in the American Dream clip.

Not only did he have to suffer a tongue lashing from Victor, he was further punished with a song from Brock!

Ah yes Victor- a country where you can lock someone in a bomb shelter and get away scott free or throw a woman from a moving vehicle without consequence....

And Supposedly the very first 4th of July with Victor in 1980 he punched someone over having the same feelings as Charlie!  

8 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

And Supposedly the very first 4th of July with Victor in 1980 he punched someone over having the same feelings as Charlie!  

Way to go Victor. Use violence to sort out your differences...