The Walking Dead: Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I never saw this "selfishness" and I still don't, but oh well. I'm very happy to be in the minority on that here and in the fandom in general.

Edited March 8, 2015 by DRW50

[AllMyDaysatGH]

For me it was in S4 I really found them particularly selfish. Both, especially Maggie seemed to disfavor all human life & cared for nothing except each other. Did Maggie forget about her sister? She mentioned her like once or twice I believe but her main focus was always Glenn and I found that pretty off putting. When she only put Glenn's name on the Terminus sign & made no mention of Beth...Really?

[Cheap21]

aint no shame in my Rick hating game. The episode they finally kill his ass off, Im throwing a party

[Antoyne]

That [!@#$%^&*] was PAINFUL to get through.

[DRW50]

The thing is, none of that was about Maggie or her character.

I don't agree that they disfavored all human life. Remember when Glenn was going to stay in the tunnels with Tara even though he would have died? Or when he kept Tara's secret (even to Maggie, whose father was murdered because of Tara's group)? Or when Maggie realized she needed to be with Sasha and Bob rather than keep going off on her own and shutting herself down? There was a wonderful scene with Maggie and Sasha when they saved each other's lives. None of that was about Glenn.

I can see why it annoyed people, because it annoyed me too, but I don't blame the character. I can't. It was OOC, [!@#$%^&*] writing designed to put a spotlight on woobie prince Daryl Dixon. And again I just didn't see it with Glenn at all, other than his wanting Tara to go with him. Even then, it was her choice.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Edited March 8, 2015 by DRW50

[Vee]

I don't think Glenn and Maggie were written to be callous or unfeeling about Beth, but I also don't think they were poorly written. At the same time, I also don't think they wrote Beth's death to be about Daryl or to spotlight him. He's not had much to do this season period. They had a bond, they paid it off but the season has hardly focused on Daryl's Quest for Beth, IMO. I also don't think the show has ever cared about any maybe-couple with them, at least not to the point of distraction. It will play with dynamics but the writers and producers never seem to feel remotely beholden. It's always just gonna do whatever it's gonna do and it has no interest in its fanbases.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Vee

[DRW50]

I wasn't sure if the poster wanted that spoiled, but I was the one who brought it up and it did air months ago, so...

I do think they were pushing Daryl as the only real person in Beth's life. Not necessarily just for shipping (although that was part of it - Daryl having to go try to rescue his women, the endless baiting on Talking Dead and in press interviews), but also to build up the idea that Beth was Daryl's world and without her he'd lose hope and slowly melt down, as he's been doing ever since the hospital.

I think they decided in order to sell this story, Maggie had to be out of it. Maybe they also just forgot about Maggie's relationship with Beth until near the end, but I wonder.

Whether it was intended or not, it wasn't much fun to have to spend a year hearing fans call Maggie a bitch and a slut and a whore whose only purpose in life is Glenn's dick. And I still hear people say this. I guess it's a good thing no other character on this show is imperfect.

[Vee]

Well, fans watching TV shows can be stupid. That's been the case since TV was invented. We've been around the block on this but I don't think any show bears any responsibility for an audience's behavior unless they actively try to induce it or skew the show around catering to it, and I don't think TWD has ever done that. I don't watch the talk show and I have no interest in it or the fanbases on social media, I'm just going by what I watch episode to episode. And I think most of the general audience is the same - I think there's a lot of people out there who had no idea "Caryl vs. Bethyl" was a thing. I would never have known unless you told me.

I do think they leaned on Daryl and Beth's bond and their friendship, as well as the question of whether it was or wasn't something more, but they never broke that seal because they decided it wasn't right for those characters (and especially his - I have doubts he'll ever be paired with anyone). They used it as a human touchstone for Daryl's character this year and his driving motive, but I don't think she was his world or his woman or anything like that and I don't think the show ever wrote them like that. What the press does or what AMC polls for on the talk show is really not relevant to me when I watch it. It's like people freaking out about the new blonde chick with Rick - who gives a !@#$%^&*]? I'm not seeing any other character done a disservice by her presence on the show when I watch, not thus far anyway, so it doesn't bother me. Would I rather he be with Michonne, sure, but the woman likely has a story purpose, which may be finite. Until I see it turn into the Rick & Whatserface Show in lieu of Michonne's current central role, I'm not gonna stress about it. Everything else is static to me, and almost certainly to the showrunners who clearly have no problem with outraging the more crazed segments of their audience.

[DRW50]

I do, mostly because it's so contrived. I don't believe that Rick would let someone he doesn't know come at him with scissors. I don't know why viewers are expected to be caught up in this relationship solely because she's an attractive blonde. I don't believe Rick would ever be with a woman unless he knew her for a long period of time. He's not Abraham. He has kids and he has huge trust issues. Even if Michonne weren't around I'd feel that way. I think it's just a big cliche. It reminds me of stuff on episodic TV dramas 40 years ago. The whole thing irks me, because Rick's one of my favorite characters and now his story is veering into stuff I tend to cringe at.

It's the same with Maggie. I would have been less annoyed by Daryl's endless sad panda faces if I didn't feel like it had been at Maggie's expense. For me this show is about characters and the integrity of characters. I know people make fun of TWD and say the writing for the characters is awful and it's rare that the show doesn't suck, but I don't think that's true. I think they have some brilliant characterizations that you can't find anywhere else on TV - Carol, Michonne, etc. So when things like this happen, they bother me.

Edited March 9, 2015 by DRW50

[Vee]

I think Rick's gotten to a point in his life - utterly exhausted, finally given some respite - where he might have a fling or a beginning relationship with someone new and comforting and vaguely reminiscent of Lori, all of which that woman would seem to be. But I don't think it's going to amount to much or end well. I don't think the show is even remotely hyping her or them as the next big thing. I don't see that kind of marketing or narrative in any of the show I watch or the episode teasers or ads they run. I think any time Rick really moves on, if he ever does, it will be with something much more profound. Maybe this can grow into that, who knows, she's only been on for one episode, but I doubt it. And I don't see the show leaning on it in any way. What the press does or the talk show does I don't care about, and obviously the show doesn't either considering how many beloved characters have yet to be risen from the grave.

I think they've given a lot of time to Maggie in the second half of this season, so that makes me happy. But I also think they purposely separated the characters to split them off on separate goals for the back half of last season, and they decided to have Glenn and Maggie's driving purpose be finding each other. Which I understood, personally; I thought that made the most sense. Everyone they knew and loved had been scattered to the winds, not just Beth, and of course anyone's first focus would be finding their spouse and life partner. I think criticism of her is silly on that point, but I don't think the show did it to shortchange Maggie for Daryl. I think they did it because Glenn looking for Maggie and Maggie looking for Glenn was the first and most logical dramatic choice, while Beth and Daryl were total opposites, so why not put them together on a journey.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Vee

[DRW50]

I don't really know what they have in mind for her - I know their social media has been pushing her, and the actress has said she wants Jessie to be what Andrea is in the comics (of course I guess she would say that as she wants to have a big role). I don't expect Rick to be a monk, I just don't think this is true to his character.

I guess we'll see.

I never felt like Maggie's story in 4B-5A was all that bad - I enjoyed a lot of it - I just think they should have had her mention Beth a few times. Once, even.

[slick jones]

I'm looking forward to some more Tovah before her voice of reason gets her knocked off!

[Juliajms]

Holy F*ck, Carol!!

[quartermainefan]

That was weird. Carol is truly the most hardened of the group, and mentally the toughest going all the way back to season 2 when she needed a walker to practice c-sections on. I liked this episode because it was about how the core three are going about their business and it seems it is Daryl who is the one being seduced most. That he didn't want the gun was telling and I think he really wants to make this work. Rick is being more obviously seduced but he is honestly experiencing the personal drama of being there. Carol though is different in that she is not honestly interacting with any of them, not allowing even a moment to be truly in the moment. She would never allow herself to honestly interact with anyone the way Rick and Daryl have, and I have a slight worry for her on the show.

[Vee]

I loved everything with Daryl, Aaron and Poor Doomed Eric. That was really good stuff. I really love all of the weird gamesmanship and scheming in this new setting, and I think the core characters especially are thriving in the new environment, dressed in their suburban drag - Rick, Carol, Michonne, etc. Even Abraham and Rosita look wildly different, and had that great beer gag. Oddly enough, Daryl seems like the first one of the original 3 to fully begin to acclimate, while Carol is doing Carol (and her monologue to the kid was pitched on the right knife's-edge of horrifying and hilarious, and Melissa McBride clearly played it for both) and Rick is retreating into a sort of Governor-lite mindset - relating more to the dead outside the walls then the people.

Michonne looked like a million bucks at the party. I think they're still clearly very committed to her, and to all those relationships, whether she ends up with Rick or someone else or whatever. I'm familiar with Jesse in the comics and the character just doesn't bother me. What's happening with Rick indicates to me that whatever he's doing with her is not serious and not meant to last. It's either a foolish flirtation or a scheme within a scheme, or both. I do think it's a little rushed, but I also think it's meant to be seen that way. It's this rash, unhealthy thing and Rick is in a rash, unhealthy mindset. Rick, Sasha, Carol, etc. are all traumatized and managing it in different ways. I didn't see anything in this episode or the last one that indicated that the show is seriously trying to push a sincere insta-love story for Rick and this random chick. Everything he's doing now is a reaction to his experience, both here and now and long-term.

Good episode. I hope Sasha finds her way, though. They seem to be giving her more and more, and I hope it's not the end of her. I also love the idea of Maggie as Deanna's second in command.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Vee