AMC: Monday, June 14, 2010

[Khan]

The part I've emphasized pretty much answers your question. PASSIONS gets no credit, b/c their efforts at breaking taboo were so atrocious, they were better off not trying at all. Say what you will about how Kish, Nuke, Otalia, or Bianca turned out, but at least these attempts were more in earnest.

[Ms. Chandler Quartermaine]

But Passions wasn't THAT bad....aside from Vincent, they handled the stories well enough to earn them some credit.

I loved the way they were so unapologetic about it, they didn't pull an ATWT and whisk Chad/Vincent off screen to show their sex scene.

I don't know why I'm defending them haha, but if most of the remaining soaps had Passion's boldness, it would make for a more interesting industry.

[DeeeDee]

Of course.

But in reality that's NEVER gonna happen.

[Khan]

As I told a past online friend of mine, if you're gay and on TV, you can't have sex unless it's off-screen and in the shower. (Of course, this was long before Kish's "Thrust Heard 'Round the World.")

[DeeeDee]

+1.

[DeeeDee]

No.

They just finished emasculating one Minority Male (after conceiving a child with his possible SISTER & losing her to his White Brother) before having him be murdered by his own White father & turned another Minority Male into a perverted sociopath who had sex with HIS own White father when not raping his sister or trying to kill his Black Whore of a Mother.

[Khan]

I thought we all agreed never to speak of the Ethan/Theresa/Gwen triangle again on this board. ;-)

[DeeeDee]

It didn't work for Clint & it wouldn't work for J/A.

J/A have always been (for the most part) extremely tolerant & progressive.

Cindy Chandler much?

Generalize much?

Which amounts to OMGBLACKPEOPLEARESOMOREHOMOPHOBICTHANWHITEPEOPLE let's shame them for not being more enlightened!

Which is different from Homophobia in the White Church how?

And that's where you're wrong.

Each family is just that. A family of individuals & not a conduit for a generalized blanket condemnation of an antiquated stereotype that is just as applicable for any other race of people.

[Khan]

No, it shouldn't be about Jesse and Angie's intolerance toward Frankie's sexuality, b/c they just aren't the types for that.

It should be about trying to accept their son being in love with David's long-lost son.

;-)

[DeeeDee]

Angie interfering with lesbian Cassie's love life would be much more in character.

[Cheap21]

She wasnt all that interested in Carlos at all. And Brot, well they have a sister/brother type relationship. He is defiently intetrested but she doesnt seem to want him like that and seemed turned off when he did try to pursue her

Maybe. It would help to actually give her a love interest to change this

bc the happy hooker likes d--k!

[SFK]

SFK

But it could be in character

It didn't work for Clint & it wouldn't work for J/A.

J/A have always been (for the most part) extremely tolerant & progressive.

Cindy Chandler much?

While I conceded that Jesse or Angie wouldn't be the best choice to take such a stance in such a s/l, neither of them are above the complexities of human personality. Frankly, we don't know HOW they would react, we can only assume as we're doing here, putting a lot of thought into fictional characters whose lives are at the whim of the latest hack's pen. And that's where the "could" comes in, you never know how tolerant progressive Jesse (or a father of any color) might react to his son bringing home a dude.

SFK

it has been my experience that a LOT of men of Jesse's age and race have homophobic feelings.

Generalize much?

DeeeDee, I am not one to pull stuff out of my ass, as I said, "It has been my experience" being a black person living in large urban cities in the northeast. ALL black men of a certain age, of course not. But a healthy enough amount for me to have made the comment.

SFK

But to me, my concern, my interest would be in exploring the issue of homosexuality in a black social context which is not what we've seen before in a gay s/l in daytime.

Which amounts to OMGBLACKPEOPLEARESOMOREHOMOPHOBICTHANWHITEPEOPLE let's shame them for not being more enlightened!

Which is why I said that a show like AMC is probably not the best place to even tell such stories. It's too bad that we don't have more (any?) hour-long predominantly black wonderfully written cable dramas where these issues could be explored. They'd be poorly executed in today's shortsighted daytime. And it shouldn't be about shaming anyone. The issue of homophobia in the black community certainly wasn't raised for the first time in this thread, and pretending that our community doesn't have its unique set of issues because we're embarrassed about white people knowing our [!@#$%^&*] is not the way to go. White people are smart enough to know that all middle-aged white men aren't homophobes, they're smart enough to know that one homophobic black character doesn't trump the other three who are not. Exploring the social implications of the same subject in a different community context is something I would find interesting.

SFK

But mean, the hypocrisy of homophobia in the black church when homosexuals in many many cases are RUNNING the black church, breaking bread with the adored gay uncle and going out and beating a f@%%*! who looked at you wrong, the black gay subculture, THAT kind of stuff.

Which is different from Homophobia in the White Church how?

If you grew up in a black Baptist church or the Church of God in Christ you'd know exactly what I mean. The "homophobia" in and of itself may be the same, but the way in which it manifests itself is unique in the black church. The whole gay-black-church-gospel-music experience is the stuff soaps are made of, a thread of its own.

SFK

they should in a way serve as a microcosm of the issues of that community

And that's where you're wrong.

Each family is just that. A family of individuals & not a conduit for a generalized blanket condemnation of an antiquated stereotype that is just as applicable for any other race of people.

Yes, each family is just that, but if I'm writing for the only black family in a vast sea of white, I'm going to try to work in as many shades of the black experience that I can and there's going to be some controversy along the way. With Carla Gray there was the danger that folks wouldn't "get it" and think white was the prize that all blacks dreamed of and the "lucky light ones" grabbed like a brass ring. But at the hand of a skilled writer, it was explored inside out and made clear what Carla's true motivations were. There's a lot more to this subject of blacks and homophobia besides a wash of generalized ignorance and hate.

I can't figure out this quoting thing and now I have a major headache.

[Sylph]

How about an arrow for you?

You just click on Multiquote on every single post you want to quote (the button turns green) and then click on Add Reply. And you're done!

[R Sinclair]

I call bu

I can totally see Jesse being intolerant if one of his children announced they were gay. This open minded, progressive man had a titty attack when Natalia posed tastefully nude. That reaction was incredibly over the top for the kind of photos they were. He has his idea of how his children should be in this world, regardless of the fact that they're grown ups, capable of making their own life decisions.

If Erica was able to be the heavy in the Bianca storyline, even though Erica spent 20 years in the fashion/cosmetics industry surrounded by gays... including her trusted Val, then so can Jesse. It's a realistic angle to say "Not MY child!" no matter how accepting that character might be towards others.

[DeeeDee]

While I conceded that Jesse or Angie wouldn't be the best choice to take such a stance in such a s/l, neither of them are above the complexities of human personality.

A fancy way of saying "it doesn't matter if it is OOC to make a character act a certain way as long as it serves the contrived plot".

we don't know HOW they would react

Since when?

They're characters with established histories & clear motivations.

Nobody blinks an eye when Erica fights with a romantic rival over a man or Opal gives someone home spun advice.

Now all of the sudden when it comes to doing certain stories what came before all of the sudden becomes arbitrary? Very Pratt of you.

So then why is the conversation limited to how Jesse would react & not how Adam or David or Tad or any of AMC's other Father's would act?

If that's what you want to believe then that's what you do.

Who said that?

You're the one trying to make homophobia unique to Black People.

OLTL run by a bunch of Middle Aged White People felt the need to thrust an entire group of middle aged white homophobes into their recent coming out story which in turn made it even more cliche.

Really?

Certain viewers refuse to discuss race (especially as it applies to the way legendary characters like J/A are being ruined to prop their White counterparts) BECAUSE they are Black even though J/A are a significant part of the reason why their White counterparts even have a show to be on.

But then it's ok to discuss race as long as it doesn't interfere with propping sociopaths.

Again. Which is different than homophobia in White Churches how?

No it isn't.

The only thing different is the music.

Then you're not writing individuals, you're writing tokens just as much as AMC (and Daytime as a whole) is now.

They didn't & still don't.

Which is why 40 years removed from Ellen Holly's groundbreaking progress Daytime has regressed so thoroughly Minorities (especially Black People) being marginalized, emasculated, oversexed, second choice, bed warming placeholders is now SOP.

There really isn't.

SOME Black People are homophobic like SOME White People.

The end.