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AMC: Monday, June 14, 2010


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Yeah, it would be the *stronger* choice to go with a Jesse or Angie, just like it would have been the stronger choice to make Joey Buchanan gay and not Billy Douglas, but yes, you have to be smart about these things when we can count on half a hand the number of beloved black legacy characters still around in daytime

Nah. It would be the wrong choice to make Jesse, Angie or Frankie arbitrarily homophobic for the sake of a story like it was for OLTL to do to Clint.

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I wasn't trying to be offensive. I'm just looking for something -- anything -- that will bring some life to this character and give Darnell and Debbi some good material to play, too.

Then write for the characters as humans instead of marginalized tokens that sit on the backburner when they're not being humiliated/emasculated/over sexualized or their White Peers need to be propped.

It's not that hard.

If that comes across as being offensive, though, then I apologize.

It's not you that's the problem. It's Daytime.

A minority character being LBGTQ isn't the problem.

It's the need to make them LBTGQ solely to avoid dealing with them as 3 dimensional human beings with sexual urges like their White Peers & render them eunuchs which is the real problem.

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I see Natalia being drawn to lesbian Casandra. I see a negative reaction only to mask what she may end up feeling herself

But see that's the thing outside of one scene with Randi (which didn't really have any implied subtext) Natalia hasn't even been hinted as being a lesbian neither in the writing nor the acting.

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But see that's the thing outside of one scene with Randi (which didn't really have any implied subtext) Natalia hasn't even been hinted as being a lesbian neither in the writing nor the acting.

she's been on the show for nearly 2 years and has shown zero interest in men. That time she got dressed up and let that con artist to flirt with her so she could bust him up was about the most play she's gotten since coming to town. I dont see them making her a lesbian, but really it could go either way with her bc theres been just as little to confirm that she is straight. Making Randi a lesbian now would be a rewrite and wouldnt make sense. Natalia? Not so much

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Nah. It would be the wrong choice to make Jesse, Angie or Frankie arbitrarily homophobic for the sake of a story like it was for OLTL to do to Clint.

Just to be clear, by "stronger" I don't necessarily mean "better", I mean more dramatic and envelope pushing because when you give a beloved character an unpopular point of view it challenges the viewer in a powerful way, like one day hearing your darling grandmother call someone a spic, nigger, or fag out of the blue. It really tests you emotionally. But I am conscious of what such things did to Clint (character and actor) for instance, and I maintain that Jesse and Angie aren't the ones we go taking such chances with. But of course, to tell a gay story in a black context, someone (who is black) has got to be the bearer of homophobia or we aren't telling the full, socially relevant story. If it's a sweet aunt, an angry uncle, a homothug, a preacher on the D.L., whoever, someone within the community has to be the heavy.

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she's been on the show for nearly 2 years and has shown zero interest in men.

She's had interest in men (Brot, Carlos & even flirted with computer dude) but she's also been really career driven & doesn't want to settle down.

It also hasn't helped that TPTB have kept her & Martinez in a holding pattern since the end of last summer.

That time she got dressed up and let that con artist to flirt with her so she could bust him up was about the most play she's gotten since coming to town.

She had a date at Thanksgiving (Carlos) that left cause she was more interested in flirt fighting with Brot than being with him.

I dont see them making her a lesbian, but really it could go either way with her bc theres been just as little to confirm that she is straight.

Not really.

Everything thus far has said she's straight.

You're the one saddling her with cliche lesbian stereotypes.

Making Randi a lesbian now would be a rewrite and wouldnt make sense.

Why?

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I mean more dramatic and envelope pushing

But if it's not in character it defeats the purpose.

Lisa being against Jessica/Duncan worked cause Lisa was a woman of a certain generation & she wasn't used as a 2 dimensional external obstacle to create needless tension.

But of course, to tell a gay story in a black context, someone (who is black) has got to be the bearer of homophobia

Not really.

Just like there are varied experiences within EVERY racial/ethnic group in terms of LBGTQ experiences & EVERY racial/ethnic group (including Straight White People) has issues with homophobia not all are gay people (even Black Gay People) are hindered by homophobia.

To insert homophobia in every gay story (for no other reason to acknowledge it exists) is unnecessary.

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I dont see them making her a lesbian, but really it could go either way with her bc theres been just as little to confirm that she is straight.

That's the thing, we're just talking fan *vibes* here, like in the past when people wondered where they might go with J.R., or Rex, or Jonathan and Sandy, it's purely speculation (and for some hard pressed fans, wishful thinking :rolleyes: ). If Natalia, or anyone else turns out to be gay, that's cool. But I don't think that's what we've got here, we don't have potentially gay characters on the page as much as we have hetero characters whose love lives are being underwritten.

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"But if it's not in character it defeats the purpose.

Lisa being against Jessica/Duncan worked cause Lisa was a woman of a certain generation & she wasn't used as a 2 dimensional external obstacle to create needless tension."

But it could be in character, who's to say that someone doesn't harbor these feelings and they hit the surface when things hit home. Jesse and Angie are also of a certaingeneration, and Jesse in particular being a black male of that generation, it has been my experience that a LOT of men of Jesse's age and race have homophobic feelings.

"Not really.

Just like there are varied experiences within EVERY racial/ethnic group in terms of LBGTQ experiences & EVERY racial/ethnic group (including Straight White People) has issues with homophobia not all are gay people (even Black Gay People) are hindered by homophobia.

To insert homophobia in every gay story (for no other reason to acknowledge it exists) is unnecessary."

But to me, my concern, my interest would be in exploring the issue of homosexuality in a black social context which is not what we've seen before in a gay s/l in daytime. And I can admit that AMC may not be the best fit for the kind of stories I would tell. I mean, the hypocrisy of homophobia in the black church when homosexuals in many many cases are RUNNING the black church, breaking bread with the adored gay uncle and going out and beating a [email protected]%%*! who looked at you wrong, the black gay subculture, THAT kind of stuff. We can pick or choose where we want to go with ANY story, I just think that if you are going to tell a gay story using a black family, they should in a way serve as a microcosm of the issues of that community when people of color are given so many limited opportunities for their truth, their love, and yes, their dirty secrets to be told.

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Why does Passions in all of its over-the-top glory get no credit...although, they didn't handle these stories with as much grace as they should have, they had no problem knocking down every taboo left in the soap world. They had the first black lesbian character(Simone),the first black gay character (well was Vincent gay, I have no clue) the first bisexual character (Chad), they dealt with the "down low" situation, and they even had the unapologetic disapproving parent scenario.

Passions was so ahead of its time. I miss that show!

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I didn't watch Passions and I guess you're right, but I suppose it's like doing a staged reading of The Three Sisters in the ball pit at Check E. Cheese.

I do remember reading that Aunt Irma (Marla Gibbs) was very nasty towards her lesbian niece, I'll have to check out some of those scenes if they're on YouTube. I would be interested to know if fans felt that these stories could have easily been played by cast members of any color or if the racial implications were there. I could imagine that from someone like a religious elderly old aunt, but like I said, I haven't seen any of these episodes.

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For me I really felt the storyline with Chad, dealt with the racial implications well. Chad had a really hard time dealing with the situation, especially because he was a black male, if I remember correctly Vincent brought it up before about how Chad couldn't face the fact that he was a black gay male, and that "he was just another brother on the down-low".

The Simone storyline, was less racially motivated. But Aunt Irma wasn't the only one who disapproved of her sexuality, Simone's father was also disapproving. I think the Simone story was more universal, but then again, I don't really remember her story to much as she was not a favorite of mine, so I'm not 100% sure.

Hell, come to think of it, the show even dealt with being a hermaphrodite as well...oh Passions how I miss you so.

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LOL, very interesting, thanks for the info. Oh right! That was Rachel from OLTL playing Vincent when he... switched. That was nasty though, wasn't he trying to get pregnant by his own dad? At any rate, I'd like to see the Hubbards get some heavier story, period. I hope this thing with Angie is old-school good. (From my lips...)

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A minority character being LBGTQ isn't the problem. It's the need to make them LBTGQ solely to avoid dealing with them as 3 dimensional human beings with sexual urges like their White Peers & render them eunuchs which is the real problem.

You're right. TPTB would treat a gay minority character that way. In a so-called perfect world, however, I'd like to think you could have it both ways (meaning, a gay minority with as normal a sex life as anyone else on-screen).

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