Victoria Rowell: "Debbi Morgan wanted to come to Y&R"

[DeeeDee]

Back to trolling with pseudonyms again?

You can do better than that.

Now you're just being hyperemotional AMS!

[bellcurve]

Kimmer leads by example.

[crc]

[DeeeDee]

LMAO +1.

[All My Shadows]

Wow. Or maybe we're speaking from experience? I don't need a professor to tell me about what I see all the time in life.

I love, love, love, love it when people who aren't part of these minority groups just dismiss those who are when they have something to complain about. Just completely dismiss us. You don't have to believe everything or be convinced of everything. But at least acknowledge that you are in no position at all to say that black people or women or blind people or whoever is just "spewing" stuff that's been "crammed down [our] throats." Really? Really? What's your experience with the matter?

I didn't even want to get into the race side of this. I was just gonna stick to the "Ria's crazy!" side. But this here is just ridiculous. What are you even basing this on? Our cries for daytime to introduce and integrate more minorities both on an doff the camera? Dude, that's a legitimate gripe. If you disagree, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[crc]

+1

[ian]

I agree. You will always have the people who will worship at an actor's altar no matter what and then start throwing the issues in there. This isn't even about Victoria Rowell, it's about a "bigot" and a "a hyperemotional, wave the race/sex card at every opportunity, objectivally-defunct whiner.", not my words in either case.

I think alphanguy and DeeeDee both have made huge contributions to this board and I enjoy reading both their posts, and they are not the only ones who fit what OldSchoolSoapFan is referring to... but every situation should be looked at separately. It's like some people read a post, then one sentence in, their Racist Radar Detector goes off and then bring in the wronged ranting. If we could enter a headspace that allows Victoria Rowell to be both an imperfect person AND an African American Woman (Mutually exclusive. Does not compute.) We could comment on her actions as being right or wrong without everything being an affront.

I think the evidence about Y&R being divided along race lines speaks for itself. Look at what Bill Bell did for diversity and how it's been destroyed. The marginalization is all across the board. However that doesn't mean that the people who think Victoria Rowell is a trouble maker are akin to those wearing sheets and burning crosses.

Am I homophobic if I think Rosie O'Donnell was more trouble than she was worth on The View and caused problems? I agree with a lot of what she says, but she's a mouthpiece. She alienates a lot of people with the way she conducts herself. That doesn't make me homophobic or misogynistic or against those who don't fit the typical size-zero Hollywood image, it means I don't like Rosie O'Donnell.

So if we can all acknowledge the fact that the Y&R writers are hacks and minorities have suffered, and this is a disturbing trend on all shows (prove it isn't), and that there's a strong possibility that Victoria may be difficult to work with as evidenced by her public antics, we can try to be a little more objective.

And... I have to agree with Alphanguy - Crazy is crazy. Being a "Hot Mess" has nothing to do with race.

[SFK]

alpha, you may very well be right, maybe she is an aloof diva on set, I cannot say. But the fact remains that the injustices she speaks of don't (or at least SHOULDN'T) have anything to do with her personality. If TPTP are not writing for black characters because they do not like Victoria Rowell, yeah, we have a huge problem there. Sure, you can attract more flies with honey than vinegar, but if Victoria got frustrated, a little loud, and a lot angry that the black actors couldn't get their hair properly done or weren't afforded the same wardrobe courtesies (loaded subjects btw that make ANY actor look petty and vain for even bringing up so damned if they do, damned if they don't), they shouldn't have taken their anger for Victoria out on the other black cast members nor the fans at home.

She hasn't said that everyone was against her, she mentions specific people who she did and did not get along with. I'm not doubting that she's a little eccentric a LOT of actors are, but that doesn't equal certifiable batshit crazy bitch either. Honestly, the more I hear from VR the more I'm reminded of Robin Strasser, the things said about her and the things she's said about herself re: work ethic/co-worker relations. VR just has the added burden of racial inequality which sells short the work she knows the show is capable of doing, and doesn't provide a level playing ground for the entire cast. I don't think she's using her race as an excuse for people legitimately disliking her for bitchery. Yet it's impossible to separate the issue of race because that's the issue that's making her "bitchy" to begin with!

[bellcurve]

The problem "I" have with this is that people are saying Victoria Rowell is crazy. Even if she is crazy, what the hell difference does that make with regard to her claims? Especially if we're seeing the EXACT same thing playing out with people on Y&R long after she has left?

Kristoff has been nothing but a loyal employee to SONY/Bell, often criticized by many in the black soap watching community for "Tomming" and "not speaking up." When Kristoff finally sees the writing on the wall and decides to go on record about the lack of diversity on Y&R, the way his character has been treated, and what is happening to fellow minority actors on his show, the show gives him a "suck it up and take what you can get from us because this will be your fate if you don't straighten up" vacation. Instead of Maria Bell and Paul Rauch taking these criticisms and concerns seriously, the show chastises him and then puts him in yet another pairing where he is sacked for the "ruthless tycoon newcomer" endgame.

Now is Kristoff a crazy black guy, using the race card, pulling stuff out of his ass from Race/Gender studies classes too? The approaches were different(Rowell bringing in the fire truck, Kristoff using the water hose), but their messages were the same. Y&R takes its minority audience and minority representation for granted.

[alphanguy74]

Bellcurve, I can't speak for everybody... but I know that as far as i'm concerned..I think maybe you take people's claims of "crazy" too seriously. Like when I say I love Brenda Dickson, I don't mean I LOVE her like I love my mother... I love her like I love ice cream. Almost all of in here really like Ria, me included... doesn't mean we don't thinks she's off base soemtimes, and I DO MEAN ONLY SOMETIMES. Ian... that post of yours was BRILLIANT. To hear Dee Dee tell it, Victoria Rowell is perfect in every way and has done nothing wrong in her life, EVAH. i'm sorry, but last time I checked, the name on her birth certificate was NOT Jesus Christ.

[SFK]

re: bellcurve, exactly. Apparently, when it comes to this subject you can be loud and "crazy" and call people out, you can be calm, cool, and collected and go through the proper channels, you can be a good little soldier and sit back doing absolutely nothing... all meet at the same end.

[OldSchoolSoapFan]

When I was in college, I had leftist professors tell me every half-assed cliché about white people, black people, women, homosexuals, and every other categorized group you can think of. It was by that time I realized it was all a joke, and that the only one grounded in reality was myself. The professors were naturally mouthing off what every other professor was saying, so in essence they were not hallmarks of objectivity. And lest I should forget about the learning process...the only thing you were expected to "learn" from college are the following:

White=Bad

Black=Good

Male (only if they're white)=Bad

Female=Good

In my later years, working in NYC and interacting and making friendships with people from all walks of life is what has made me today. Reality, in terms of race/sex/whatever, is what it is. What television, the media, music, etc. want you to believe is bullcrap.

[bellcurve]

Like I said before...regardless of if someone is "crazy" or "sassy" or "holding a grudge," does that make their claims any less valid, especially when the same vicious cycle is being repeated with other co-stars?! That was the question I posed. Now that I've cleared that up, feel free to answer.

[bellcurve]

Wow. Someone reads WAY too much Michele Malkin.

[SFK]

alpha, I get what you mean about "crazy", and I agree with you. I just think that some people take that innocent "good kinda crazy" and twist it against people like her when they don't like what they're hearing or to simply dismiss/discredit their valid arguments (that's the impression I got about PB's comments about her). I'm not saying that you're doing that, but I think some of her detractors have. Like a devoted Bill Bell fanboy/girl who giggles at "Welcome to My Home" but turns and calls BD a stupid certifiable bitch when she says something perhaps disparaging against the man.