6 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

By the time they got to ATWT, P&G/CBS had a lot more mandates. ATWT was seen a dated show and had recently lost its #1 winning streak as ABC daytime had ascended in a massive way. It was seen as a show that was in much trouble and that needed to be "contemporary" - something Bridger and Jerry had successfully done with GL, which is why they were shipped over to ATWT to begin with. 

Allen Potter was a creative inclined EP as well (hence why he and Marland clashed), so he also played an integral role in shaping that canvas at the time. 

 

Thanks for filling in those details. Now can you tell me why in the world Allen Potter didn't see the incredible potential of the "3 Carries"? 

12 hours ago, mace44 said:

Interesting that Zimmer Vehemently opposed the suicide storyline, as it garnished her an EMMY and IMO allowed her character tremendous growth to independence, really birthing her character as REVA SHAYNE.  Before that storyline, she was always under the shadow of Lewis Men History.  1985-1986 was my Favorite version of Reva.  I loved the Kyle/Reva storyline and loved the Laura series.  I thought Kim Zimmer & Jay Hammer did fantastic work with that storyline. I thought Zimmer & Malloy had great chemistry and he held his ground nicely as a leading man on the show. 

Great info on the Cain stuff too.  I’ve just converted about 30 hours worth of VHS of GL 1985-86 videos that I am starting to post on YouTube under SampsonGirl.  Mostly Kyle/Reva/Fletcher/Maeve storylines but I have a lot of Laura series/Cain storylines still to post.  Trying to finish 1985 before starting a bunch of 1986.  Definitely gonna view with a different lens with this background info.
 

 

While it was not a good time for the show, this was really Reva at her best. She became independent and I actually liked Fletcher for the first and only time here, and love that they didn't do the obvious, but that Reva and Fletcher were buddies. While I don't like Kyle that much (I think Malloy was a very effected actor by then and his Kyle came off as cold and controlling..) I do think he would have been a great character down the line for Reva2.0 with a new actor.  Instead of San Crud, maybe Kyle is married to Amanda, comes to SF just to get in Reva's orbit and then finds our he IS Marah's dad. I would have sent RR's Alan off someplace and have Phillip take over Spaulding and he and Kyle go head to head, etc. 

I always do a lot of research and reading through the back thread via searches on a lot of stuff I'm curious about, but I wanted to get a fresh take from anyone as well: What was the reason for Pam Long's exit and return in the mid-late '80s? She brought in Harley and the Coopers when she returned, right? What was the deal with Sonni/Solita saga in her choices vs. the strike for example, and when did it become a division of labor creative situation with Curlee/Demorest, et al at the show? I know Curlee officially became co-HW in either '89 or '90 but I also know she was instrumental in pushing for the returns of Roger and Holly well before that.

Any information on the creative choices surrounding this whole era, the transition from the last (like when they had Larkin Malloy on and Josh was gone), or any stories or characters at all is always welcome.

Edited February 22, 20233 yr by Vee

5 minutes ago, Vee said:

I always do a lot of research and reading through the back thread via searches on a lot of stuff I'm curious about, but I wanted to get a fresh take from anyone as well: What was the reason for Pam Long's exit and return in the mid-late '80s? She brought in Harley and the Coopers when she returned, right? What was the deal with Sonni/Solita saga in her choices vs. the strike for example, and when did it become a division of labor creative situation with Curlee/Demorest, et al at the show? I know Curlee officially became co-HW in either '89 or '90 but I also know she was instrumental in pushing for the returns of Roger and Holly well before that.

Any information on the creative choices surrounding this whole era, the transition from the last (like when they had Larkin Malloy on and Josh was gone), or any stories or characters at all is always welcome.

I swear I remember reading Long left GL to go on maternity leave, while her stint on SFT was forced by P&G as a last ditch attempt to see if they could salvage the show at all before she was able to come back to GL by ‘87. P&G had some strange policies about swapping EP’s and HW’s which of course caused irreparable damage on every P&G soap.

4 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

P&G had some strange policies about swapping EP’s and HW’s which of course caused irreparable damage on every P&G soap.

I knew they famously did it with Marland and the Dobsons in the early '80s, but I had no idea it was policy. Or that she worked on Search!

1 minute ago, Vee said:

I knew they famously did it with Marland and the Dobsons in the early '80s, but I had no idea it was policy. Or that she worked on Search!

Long’s SFT was apparently well received by remaining critics and loyal fans but it was too little too late obviously. 

Only reason I remember any of this was because years ago there was a poster here at SON and at the old WOST site named Angel who was a big soap fan, tracked every character named Angel on soaps ever known, and was taking Jeff Ryder’s courses at a Philadelphia college at the time to which they studied up on and was surprised by seeing negative reviews for Jeff Ryder’s GL who was their grad school professor at the time.

I feel like we just reviewed Pam Long's departure from GL in October, but here's the SOD story (it is never specified if she quit, was fired, or if it was mutual).  Officially she left as she was getting married, unofficially there was network interference around three topics, Reva's return as an X-mas angel, Harley's romance with a Jewish retail entrepreneur, and Holly & Roger's discussion of her rape (see the 80s SOD news tumblr discussion thread for more details).  Months after she left GL aired the scenes in Acapulco when Holly & Roger were trapped in a hotel due to the weather, but from the reporting it sounds like that plot was pitched prior to Long's departure.  Maureen Garrett was quoted in SOD that Pam Long promised her that Holly would not come out looking like a victim.  But, Maureen was dissatisfied with the way the scenes were eventually written because of Roger's lack of culpability for also raping Rita and his violent treatment of women.  I was shocked reading GL's producer Robert Calhoun response was that Holly and Roger remembered things differently, but Roger was not "unprovoked."

From 1/8/1991

Edited February 22, 20233 yr by j swift

I was referring to her first '80s exit, but I knew only some of that and not some of the other stuff. It is great to read.

51 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

Long’s SFT was apparently well received by remaining critics and loyal fans but it was too little too late obviously. 

I'll have to read up in that thread on what she got up to. I wonder if she did the flood.

28 minutes ago, Vee said:

I was referring to her first '80s exit, but I knew only some of that and not some of the other stuff. It is great to read.

I'll have to read up in that thread on what she got up to. I wonder if she did the flood.

AFAIK the flood was Tomlin, but I can double check episodes from the period to be sure.

Yes, it was Tomlin (NYT 2/23/1986)

A flood will engulf the fictitious Middle Western town of Henderson; subsequent days will bring the remaining characters and plotlines all into a single apartment house. ''We wanted to get everyone together so they could interact more easily and so we could concentrate more on domestic issues,'' said the show's head writer, Gary Tomlin, of the change in television's longest-running soap opera.

FYI - I've been trying annotate my sources as to avoid the harsh wit of Mr. Jones

Edited February 22, 20233 yr by j swift

25 minutes ago, beebs said:

AFAIK the flood was Tomlin, but I can double check episodes from the period to be sure.

Oh that's right. I associated him with EPing in my mind, but I'm barely up on Search to begin with.

The 2nd time Long left, SOW said she was fired over ratings but SOD said she had continuous clashes with TPTB. They said P&G released a statement only saying that her departure was mutual. In the next issue, her fiance said they realized they could plan for their wedding after she left, she didn't leave because of it. Her material last aired either the end of 1990 or the beginning of 1991. Regardless she was still there for the Roger/Holly Acapulco story. It aired weeks if not months before she left. And I never read anything about Maureen Garrett's issues with the story or Robert Calhoun's response. Where can I find their remarks? It's midnight so tomorrow I'll search youtube to see if the episode's there, the month, and writing credits.

Her 1st departure was a maternity leave until as others said, she was hired to headwrite search. After Jeff Ryder was fired, there were 2 or 3 headwriting teams before Long was brought back. Remembering the credits, her first episode back was Reva confronting Josh after finding out he had gotten married in Venezuela. She had already gotten pregnant with Maura and given birth to her and this only came out then. I remember reading at some point that the Sonni story may have been created by the exiting headwriters and P&G bought the story from them. If true, I don't know if/how Long changed the story. I'll look through my Guiding Light books in the morning for the names of the headwriters in between her stints 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SOD 2/19/91 - I always forget that SOD was writing about stuff that occurred weeks before the publication date at that time - the Calhoun remarks do not age well.

 

 

Edited February 22, 20233 yr by j swift

The Roger/Rita rape, which is lost to time, is something that haunted the show for years - I didn't know it was still mentioned in soap magazines by this point (if not for that scene and the Dobsons being disappointed with how it was shot, the show never would have done the Roger/Holly story in the first place). 

The show had an impossible needle to thread with Roger and Michael Zaslow, a very popular returning character with a heinous past. They made mistakes, but I think in the end they did a better job than GH ever did with Luke in his returns (not even getting into Guza somehow writing a story about how hard it is to be a rapist).

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

They made mistakes, but I think in the end they did a better job than GH ever did with Luke in his returns (not even getting into Guza somehow writing a story about how hard it is to be a rapist).

Forgive the brief tangent, but just to prove that SOD is trash when it comes to reporting, in the same issue Tony Geary is quoted about his relief at coming back to GH in 1991 as Bill because playing Luke as an "icon of anti-heroism" had become "taxing".  However, SOD didn't ask Glory Monty for a quote to contrast Tony's opinion, unlike what SOD did to Maureen Garrett, which I thought was both very disrespectful and undermined their own scoop that she had trouble with the writing.  Thus, not only do the Calhoun quotes not age well, but they were unnecessary at the time.