I disagree strongly. Ji Min was played by a strong actor, and I would have liked to have seen him developed. But I never bought for a second the sexual chemistry or romance between Jill and JiMin.

I wish they had kept Ji-Min around too.

If this stupid quad doesn't end by the end of the year, it might finally be my breaking point and I'll have to quit watching this garbage.

All of these people keep on being treated like crap, yet they go back for more emotional abuse? I have no sympathy or care for any of these characters anymore.

Yes!!! Please end it end it now. These are 4 of my favs for individual reasons or should I say were; I am not enjoying the characters or the stories anymore. Phyllis have a glimmer of hope out of all for me but I swear if she's being pulled back in instead of slowly let out I'm done at that rate the only character I'll still love enough to stay for are Kay/Ninma/Chloe and Billy and I don't have that much faith in where things are headed with those people

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by classicmoment

right now Phyllis is the only saving grace to this storyline!! Phyllis getting her grove back and getting in Nick's face is golden!!

I only wish Sharon could overhear Nick professing his love to Phyllis, but then again, Sharon is settling for a piece of Nick's heart.

I don't need Adam redeemed. He's doing awful things and I like it, and the character a lot. Just like on OLTL I don't need Todd redeemed. In fact I find most redemption stories to be coma-inducing and usually make me hate a character moreso than like them.

I'm just not a fan of the "good" guys on Soaps. They bore me to tears.

I don't need Adam redeemed. He's doing awful things and I like it, and the character a lot. Just like on OLTL I don't need Todd redeemed. In fact I find most redemption stories to be coma-inducing and usually make me hate a character moreso than like them.

I'm just not a fan of the "good" guys on Soaps. They bore me to tears.

No one here asks for sappy, cr*ppy, over-emotional, shallow-musings-about-life redemption tale. Nor a Bildungsroman-like one.

People ask for... Well, realistic. Not real. Realistic stories. Meaning, sellable to audience, not asking for too much suspension of disbelief. Making someone this much evil... Well, you can only kill him or send him in an asylum for life. In the end.

That's bad, external factors-induced drama when you have to use a wacko to cause conflict.

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by Sylph

I don't need Adam redeemed. He's doing awful things and I like it, and the character a lot. Just like on OLTL I don't need Todd redeemed. In fact I find most redemption stories to be coma-inducing and usually make me hate a character moreso than like them.

I'm just not a fan of the "good" guys on Soaps. They bore me to tears.

Which Todd? The original Todd was a serial rapist who also tried to terrorize and rape a blind woman. He would have been gone if not for the efforts at redemption, because his original purpose, like Adam now, was just to terrorize women.

The current Todd, I believe the actor sees him as some type of romantic hero, as the Tarty story as a love story, and I'm also not sure if OLTL sees Todd as a bad person. So in their eyes, he doesn't have to be redeemed.

I don't need Adam redeemed. He's doing awful things and I like it, and the character a lot. Just like on OLTL I don't need Todd redeemed. In fact I find most redemption stories to be coma-inducing and usually make me hate a character moreso than like them.

I'm just not a fan of the "good" guys on Soaps. They bore me to tears.

Same here, Antoyne.

Wow -I don't sign in for awhile, and then I come back to 12 pages of the same stuff over and over again. Alvin hates everything Y&R is doing now, and Sylph and DeeDee back him up. MarkH and Alphanguy are their foils, proclaiming why they love the show. (And poor Toups even got dragged into it) And somewhere in the middle are the rest of the posters, who are able to find some middle ground. And here's what I will never understand - it's a TELEVISION SHOW. Which means it's ALL subjective - what some find thrilling, others see as dark and misogynistic. What some find disturbing, others proclaim as the best they've seen in years. That's how TV shows work - it's a matter of personal taste.

I know I'll get mocked for saying this... but I have to throw it out there. I was an NBC guy growing up - but there were certainly times that DOOL, AW and Santa Barbera didn't make me happy. So I stopped watching. And when I heard good buzz, I tuned back in. I know in many circles, people feel like they HAVE to watch these shows every day, out of some obligation. Like you're not "really a fan" if you don't watch every day, whether you like what you see or not. But I guess I don't give daytime a pass like that. Just like with prime time, if I'm bored or angry at the direction a show is going in, I just stop watching it. I can already "see" the responses with the "eye roll" emoticon at the suggestion people just turn it off if they don't like it. But in all of those "eye roll" responses and people implying "I guess now somebody will write the obnoxious 'Why do you bother watching?' response), I have yet to read anyone explain to me WHY they keep watching if it's such a trial. I can't figure out if it just makes people feel superior to sign online and post about how awful the show is every day, or what?! I mean, I understand that. I remember posting in DOOL threads a year ago about how awful everything was... but it only lasted, like, a month. And then I just stopped posting - because really, what does me banging my drum and trying to convince everybody they're wrong really do in the long run? It just makes people bored reading my posts, and hate me for constantly telling them they're WRONG and the show is NOT GOOD, and if you disagree, then clearly you have some kind of problem that you can't see what I see.

As for me, I share concerns about the future of this team, but that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying aspects. I love the Adam/Ashley/Victor story, I love Mary Jane's psycho-antics, and I love every scene Peter Bergman and Michelle Stafford are in. I have issues with the art story and how it started, but if the rumors are true about

Sean Kanan/Deacon

being the mastermind, I'm willing to forgive a crappy start to see what he brings to the canvas. And yes, I find many of the stories to be misogynistic, but at the same time, I don't see any men (other than Adam, Victor and Jack) driving story. Nick is just a ping-pong ball, Paul is Nikki's appendage, Kevin does whatever Amber and Jana tell him to do, Billy can't make up his mind WHAT he wants... for all the misogyny in one or two stories, the rest of the stories involve a man being castrated. So I don't see how you can have it both ways.

And yet - as much as I agree with some of the things Alvin/Sylph/DeeDee say... it doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the show. I tune in every day, because in the last six months, there have been VERY few episodes I feel like I wasted an hour watching. I can't say that about other soaps right now, that's for sure. And yes, I know the response to that is "Daytime sucks right now, so Y&R can be better than the rest, and yet still SUCK". But here's the thing - NO OTHER SHOW (besides B& has had the stability of one HW/EP for most of its lifespan. What's happened on Y&R over the last decade is what the rest of daytime suffered through in the late 80's/early 90's - with new head writers stepping in and creating their own "vision" for a couple of years before the network finally gets sick of them and fires them. It sucks that it's happening, but it was bound to happen eventually. If anything, we should be grateful Bill Bell died doing his life's work, and wasn't ousted by a slimy network exec.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here - I just truly don't understand why I come into this thread every day and read THE SAME POSTS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Reading these last twelve pages felt like an endless task - and yet it's like reading the same five posters say the same five things every day.

I have to admit, I'm starting to see R Sinclair's point about the AMC threads vs the Y&R threads. They talk about one episode for two pages, and then move on to the next day's episode. I would much prefer that than this endless tedium of everyone repeating themselves for 30-odd pages.

But, just like with television shows, if I'm not a fan, I just turn it off. And so it will go with this thread. I mean, really? Debating whether or not 1979 was a good year for Y&R? In a world where Megan McTavish and Dena Higley can get hired over and over and over again in spite of the fact that they've NEVER had a good track record, can't we at least be grateful for the fact that although we have a flawed head writer, she seems to at least care about what the majority of the fans think? What other reason could there be for the fact that MAB has reversed every bad decision made by a previous writing regime in the span of a year? It's blatantly obvious that she gives a damn about the show, and isn't just "collecting a paycheck"" like so many other head writers out there. Does she suck at coming up with a good Winters story? Absolutely. Are the musical beds in the quad frustrating? Of course they are. But really, for all the faults I have with the show, I find myself enjoying it more often than not enjoying it. Does that mean I have bad taste? No - it just means I have MY taste. It's not good or bad, it's just individual preference.

I used to really enjoying posting here, on any number of soaps - DOOL, ATWT, GL, OLTL, GH, Y&R. About what I liked and what I didn't like in each day's episode. Having a discussion. But this isn't a "discussion" anymore. It's basically two or three people saying how awful it is, and two or three people debating that. I've been on forums where people are divided on a show before - but at least there wasn't any tunnel vision. But if you pull up ANY Y&R thread from the last 12 weeks, you'll find the conversation just boils down to the same two or three points made by the same posters over and over and over again. It doesn't even matter what happened on the show that week - that's totally besides the point. It just becomes about who is "smart" enough to hate the show, and who is "stupid" enough to enjoy it.

Blah, blah, blah. I've said my peace. Forgive me for ranting, but this is the reason why I stopped posting in here these last couple weeks... and I had to get it off my chest.

Back to lurkdom I go... thanks for hearing me out... or "reading me out" as the case may be. [/venting]

Thank you. I know you were just speaking for yourself, but this is exactly how I feel, too!

Perhaps we should move to daily Y&R threads instead of this giant weekly behometh, which is like wading through an enormous bowl of sticky pasta.

As for the Pro vs Con stuff, how about we all just GET OVER OUR DAMN SELVES and chill the [!@#$%^&*] out. No need to treat somebody as stupid just because they have a different opinion from you.

If Peter Bergman can't sell a story than there's something deeply wrong with the story. The Quad is beyond over. I don't care anymore. If that was your intention MAB, the BRAVO, you win. You have BEAT the Shick fan out of me, you have BEAT the Sharon fan out of me and if you keep this up, you'll BEAT the Jack fan out of me. So thanks for that!

I'm burned out on this back and forth of partner swapping; I'm done with it! Jack groveling over Sharon, where'd he leave his balls at? What man would let a woman walk all over them in that manner? I don't care how much in love with them you are!! I don't feel sorry for any of them at all.

As far as Noah lashing out at Sharon, she's the one that's closest to him therefore she would be the one that he's angry at since that's what teenagers do best! I agree though, Nick is the one that deserves it.

Chloe finally standing up for herself was overdue!

I want so bad for Nina to take Cane down but I fear it will only lead to further Cane propping.

Mary Jane is a psycho and if Paul weren't involved with this finally, I honestly don't know what I'd find so riveting in this storyline even though SH is doing great. I think it's because they've only shown her in bits and pieces here and there and it's just now really gaining strength. They left this storyline alone for too long although I'm still intrigued albeit thanks to Cashton and his wonderful thoughts.

As for the Adam/Ashley storyline, I'm not really liking it but Engen has sold me and color me stupid, but I'm actually feeling sorry for Adam and understanding where he is coming from. I've seen the subtle looks on Engen's face here and there and he's the one that's intrigued me since I don't feel like Eileen is selling it to me.

Ed was WRONG! I'll admit that David Lee Russek looked more the "geek" (which was supposedly, I guess, a conception of the role)...but Christoper Douglas brought the sexy. I haven't been totally impressed by Douglas on OLTL or Passions, but on Y&R he played this laid back and sexy dude...a perfect counterpart to JW's high strung Jill.

Actually it was the opposite: Alden wanted the geeky David Lee Russek. Scott was all about Douglas from the get-go.

Count me in as someone who was sorry to see Ji Min go. He could be the new Victor. Sure, he started off as a weak guy (Jack's puppet), but he could have been developed nicely.

OH, I hate Jack sooooooo much!!!!

Screwing with MJ's emotions like that! "My wife left me, so now I'm gonna use you to get a quick happy and leave you?!?!?!?!?"

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by rhythmchyc

Perhaps we should move to daily Y&R threads instead of this giant weekly behometh, which is like wading through an enormous bowl of sticky pasta.

As for the Pro vs Con stuff, how about we all just GET OVER OUR DAMN SELVES and chill the [!@#$%^&*] out. No need to treat somebody as stupid just because they have a different opinion from you.

I'd be in support of daily threads. I'd also be in support of making the MAIN focus "episode talk". Personally, I think a second "meta" thread about the show that was always there (kind of like Writers and Directors)--maybe even pinned--could offload some of the other stuff from episode talk.

How could we move forward on this? Maybe take a poll on both issues, and present the results to Toups/Errol?

Toups has said repeatedly that there won't be a daily Y&R thread. I don't think it'll happen even if we vote.

I loved how Mac was trying to flip the liquor bottle and Billy tried to help. That was cute.

And finally, there's chemistry between Miller and Ford. Woo hoo!

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by rhythmchyc

Yeah, I've seen a few sparks of chemistry between Miller & Clem this week and then she (Mac) backs away. How great was it that Chloe was reading Mac's book of memories while at the same time Billy and Mac were bonding.

Toups has said repeatedly that there won't be a daily Y&R thread. I don't think it'll happen even if we vote.

Oh, I never heard that.

I loved how Mac was trying to flip the liquor bottle and Billy tried to help. That was cute.

And finally, there's chemistry between Miller and Ford. Woo hoo!

Okay, but what's the point? Why show the chemistry? Is Mac really going to come between Chloe and Billy? I don't see it...

I want Mac free...ideally to act as a spoiler with either Kevin or JT.

OMG, Mac and Billy sexing up Cane's bar?!? Raul at the other side of the door? Jesus.

I'm actually glad that Nick and Sharon aren't enjoying their reconciliation as much as they should. The show would be hella boring if they were another Lane. The more people who don't want them together, the better, because they do belong together in the end.

That was really lame how Phyllis had to go to the office to fix the photo shoot dilemma. It's the 21st century. Work can be done at home, especially if you have ot drive all the way into town. Jeez, can you attempt to create better obstacles, people?