The Politics Thread

[SFK]

This is true. He's also had relationships with former porn stars Heather Hunter and Karrine Steffans (aka "Superhead"), and playmate Coco Johnsen. He definitely has a *type*.

[marceline]

Personally I have no problem with people using the services of sex workers. My policy on such things is that as long as everyone involved is safe and consenting then I don't care what they do.

I think Maher is often funny and insightful but there are plenty of times when I think he's dead wrong. I remember a "joke" he told on Facebook three days after Don Cornelius died where he basically claimed that Cornelius shot himself because Mitt Romney won a primary. I told him to leave that poor man's family alone and let them bury their loved one. And don't get me started on his defense of Rush Limbaugh's attacks on Sandra Fluke.

[Ann_SS]

I have a huge problem with people using sex workers. No one grows up thinking that they want to be a sex worker. It is not a victimless crime. It is the exploitation of marginalized and desperate people. The health and emotional outcomes for sex workers, particularly women, in the long term are almost always negative and tragic.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Ann_SS

[alphanguy74]

It depends on what constitutes a "Sex worker". A prositute, I can understand... but a porn star... they provide a wonderful service to the world.

[marceline]

That may all be true but I believe in people's right to make bad choices as long as they make them with their eyes open and are willing to accept the consequences of making them. There are plenty of jobs out there where the consequences in the long term are negative and tragic: coal miner, for example and there are plenty of people who have unfortunate, unpleasant, demeaning sex for free. If they want to do it for money then at least they're getting something for their trouble. A lot of the bad consequences and inequities of prostitution are the result of it being illegal. Make it legal and some of those elements will go away. Will that turn it into a healthy positive experience? No but when it comes to sex, people do crazy stuff. Again, as long as those involved are safe and consenting, I prefer to refrain from telling them what kind of sex they should have.

Would I want someone I care about becoming a sex worker? No. But there are plenty of other jobs I wouldn't want to see someone I care about do either, like the military or the priesthood.

[alphanguy74]

That makes alot of sense. My great uncle was the only survivor of 120 men trapped in a massive mining disaster in 1951. So yeah, there are MANY occupations that are way worse and more dangerous.

[juppiter]

I condemn Maher's remarks, Brian, as I'm sure you condemn birtherism. Both are equally ugly.

As for your question, I don't foresee an Obama loss. If he does lose, it's because he failed to articulate his message in the past four years. He failed to walk the American people through what he was doing. The fact that some Republicans are now calling the pending sequester the "Obama sequester" shows how this administration from day 1 has failed to frame the message correctly. If and when Obama wins he owes a big thank you to Bill Clinton for framing his message in Charlotte better than he ever did.

[GoldenDogs]

[Vee]

Yeah, that's all I'd have to say at this point if I was a Republican voter, too.

Incidentally, the new PPP poll has Obama at 50, and Romney at 47.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Vee

[Vee]

In other news, Vivica Fox is finally doing something to make me proud again.

State Senator Nina Turner is a beast.

[Ann_SS]

Most sex workers, particularly women, are coerced into prostitution when they are teenagers through violence, drug addiction, and financial desperation. Most of them are trapped in that life by the time they are adults. They might be giving consent to having sex with their johns, but they are no position to demand safe sex because they have pimps to pay, children to raise, and drug addictions to feed. The STIs including HIV that they contract from their johns gets transmitted to unsuspecting wives and girlfriends and has been the one of the main causes of the HIV/AIDS becoming a global epidemic. Prostitutes are also subjected to violence from both their johns and pimps. When that scandal blew up about the Secret Service using prostitutes in Mexico, the less sexy part of the story that the U.S. media never covered was that the reason that the woman got so desperate and called the police to get the money that she was owed was because she had to give her pimp a cut or she would be in serious trouble. People who use sex workers are contributing to their exploitation and I have absolutely no respect for them.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Ann_SS

[alphanguy74]

That does happen in cetain sectors, I mean, there have even been songs written about such things.

Personally, I would feel HORRIBLE if I had to pay for sex. Bill Maher shouldn't have to, either. He's not that great looking, but it's been said he has "other" qualities, so why would he have to pay for it, uinless he wants only these perfect Barbie doll model types.

[marceline]

I agree. When there's violence involved that's coercion not consent. When someone is in the throes of drug addiction, then one can argue that consent is gone from there too. But people with poor options end up in a lot of bad situations. That's reality. That's why I think it's important to make sure people have options through access to quality education and health care and to find and penalize domestic and child abusers.

That also happens with people who have sex for free, people who cheat, people who pick up strangers in bars. Again, dangerous, demeaning, ugly sex happens everywhere, all the time, between willing participants with no cash exchanging hands. I said above that as long as everyone is safe and consenting, I don't care what they do. What you are describing is unsafe sex so that doesn't fit my definition.

It's one thing to be worried about some kid in a South American brothel. It's another to worry about someone like Karrine Steffans who kept doing what she was doing with her eyes wide open and even wrote books about it. I think her life is disgusting but she's fine with it. I'm not going to waste my time being outraged on her behalf. The world is filled with people who make choices that I disagree with. I'm not talking about some trafficked woman chained to a bed because that's not a choice, I'm talking about the Jenna Jamesons and Traci Lords. If someone is an escort or a porn star and you ask them how they feel about it and they say, "good." then my response is, "So be it." We can't force people to value themselves in a way we find acceptable. I'm not going to worry about the businessman who pays someone to spank him with a riding crop and I'm not going to worry about the woman who makes $500 doing it. If Maher wants to pay for sex and the women he pays are genuinely consenting and aren't putting their health or anyone else's at risk, why should I care?

I don't question why people pay for sex. I don't really care. Trying to figure out the motivations people have for the kind of sex they want is way above my pay grade. I have friends who still pick men up in bars. I don't ask why any more. There's no point. When I travel on business, inevitably I see people who were clearly waiting for the chance to engage in some sort of behavior they've been keeping under wraps. They're hooking up with co-workers, going to strip clubs, looking for one freak show after another. As long as they leave me alone, I don't care. I don't think Maher HAS to pay for sex. I think he CHOOSES to. His reasons are not my concern. More power to him.

Edited November 4, 2012 by marceline

[JaneAusten]

Anyone see the segment this morning on The CBS Sunday morning show on election polls and Nate Silver? Very well done and pared down so that the average viewer could understand how Silver arrives at his numbers. I hope Mitt supporters took note.

[GoldenDogs]

Let me guess... another D+8 sampling?

Let's examine some other polls, too... yes, the very latest:

Politico/Washington University/Battleground - TIE

NBC News/Wall Street Journal - +1 Obama

ABC News/Washington Post - TIE

FOX News - TIE

CBS News/NY Times - +1 Obama

Pew Research - TIE

Gallup - +5 Romney

NPR - +1 Romney

And how many of these polls are ridiculously unbalanced in terms of Dem samples vs. Rep samples? The electorate of 2008 can't be measured as the electorate of today. Republican registration is way up this year and Democrat registration way down. Enthusiasm is low for Obama, high for Romney. Even in most polls where Obama is ahead, I invite you to look at the sampling - it just isn't good news for the President when he runs only a point or two ahead of Romney - and with anywhere from a +5 to +9 Democratic sample! That means more moderate Democrats are breaking from the party and voting for Romney, or not voting at all.

We also know for a fact that Independents are overwhelming in Romney's corner. There is no gender gap this time around; women are NOT favoring Obama.

These are all facts... Look beyond poll numbers and examine the data behind the polls. The answers are there, Vee.

Yes, I look at the polls everyday. I look INSIDE the polls every day. The statistical analysis is in Romney's favor, NOT Obama's. When Obama is sinking money into places like Pennsylvania, Michigan,or Wisconsin... when the President's campaign sends people to Nevada in the final days... that means something is up. For an incumbent, that's VERY bad news. The most accurate polling is the polling we're not allowed to see - that is the internal polling data taken by both Obama and Romney's campaigns. The President is very much in a defensive mode while Romney is moving in an offensive manner; the differences in how these men appear at their respective campaign rallies is obvious.

What did the polls say just prior to the 2010 election? Nancy Pelosi thought she was secure as Speaker of the House... then BOOM! That was only two years ago and the mood in the nation hasn't improved. The economy is just as bad, if not worse. The jobs picture hasn't improved. Libya happened. Sandy happened. Meanwhile, in between partying with rock stars and campaigning, Obama turned in what is arguably the worst performance EVER by an incumbent President in a debate...

You can't seriously tell me that things are looking fantastic for President Obama right now and the man will cruise to another effortless victory with a clear mandate by the American people... You can't seriously tell me that even the most Liberal hardliner isn't just a little bit uncomfortable right now...