Soaplovers

Luann in season 5 was perfect karma... especially when Heather pointed out that Luann loves stirring that big ole pot at the season 5 reunion.. and Luann probably had to change tactics after that. Can you imagine how different season 4 would have been if Heather had been chosen to be a housewife that season (I heard that she was offered to come on, or tried out to be a housewife that season). Heather vs Jill would have been interesting.. and seeing her deal with Kelly and Alex would have been interesting as well. Tis a shame.

Given Bobbie's background and upbringing, she was conditioned to think danger and unstable men were the norm while stable men were satisfying, but not exciting. Hence why she would usually sabotage herself whenever she was with someone stable like Tony, because she feared deep down that they would hurt her, so she hurt herself/them first. Speaking of Laura, she also was addicted to men with an edge and I think that had to do partly with finding out as a young teen that the family she thought was her family wasn't her family.. so her identity was shaken to the core.. and than the affair with David Hamilton was alluring because he treated her like an adult and offered a sense of danger and excitement. I recall in the 90s after Luke and Laura came back where she separated from Luke due to mob danger.. and she had a heart to heart with her sister Amy about the past. Amy pointed out to Laura that she had Scotty Baldwin, who was more dependable and stable, yet she opted to keep going back to Luke.. and asked Laura if she truly wanted stability, or not. It was one of the rare times the show wrote Amy as more than just a scatterbrained gossip.

I have to say I actually like Depriest's stint thus far for one very good reason... there is stuff actually happening. There have been more cliffhangers in the short time she's been head-writing than during the time that Cenedella was head-writing. Today's episodes showed Althea crashing through the window, it was short and brief.. but still very surprising how it came about.

I actually didn't find Holmes to be stiff, but more serious than what the previous actors playing Tom were. Although Holmes was one that got better looking as he aged, imho.

I get that about Labine, but perhaps she would have been better served writing a telenovela with a start, middle, and end than an ongoing continuing drama. She also could write a good mystery/action movie (The Bride in Black starring Susan Lucci was a great tv movie that had a strong New York backdrop, strong Italian family, criminals, and a mystery to boot... a shame she didn't write more made for tv movies).

Someone had been posting 1989 episodes.. and for a long time they had episodes from late summer through the end of the year posted.. plus episodes from the start of 1989.. but not much from the spring through summer of 1989 where Depriest's brief stint became apparent. Now someone is posting episodes from March/April right at the end of Julie/Nico where Cecily is their biggest cheerleader and trying to make it without her trust fund plus Julie and Will Cortlandt are friends so it is interesting to see the start of the shift from Julie/Nico to Cecily/Nico.. plus see what Julie had been up to during those missing months. I think she and Will dated during the summer months, but by fall, ended up getting a crush on Jack Montgomery. There are episodes from October 1989 where Julie and Erica are sizing each other up in regards to Jack.. but by Thanksgiving time, Erica and Julie have made up (probably when it became apparent that Lauren Holly wasn't going to stay). Than Julie is off screen for most of December only appearing at the end of the month during the Christmas episode to tell Eric (her grandpa) that she was moving away to start another internship and would miss him.

Did the character of Pat change when the recast happened like what happened when Alice was recast?

I think the Sybil Thorne mystery came when Wisner Washam became head-writer.. or perhaps co-headwriter.. so that could be why that was a pretty good mystery. I do agree that Nixon wasn't strong in terms of writing mysteries.. and I don't recall reading a lot of mysteries being written by her. It does seem like the majority of the Cortlandt gothic tone came when Wisner Washam took over as head-writer as well. And from what my mom said about Loving (when she was head-writer in the mid 80s of it).. was that it became less about the college and business... and more about the community of Corinth (she even did that one character that was possessed by a demon as well.. which makes no sense to me LOL). Since someone mentioned Labine, I think her biggest strength and weakness was her hamster effect. There wasn't a lot of character growth nor any true storyline progression on Ryan's Hope especially. Delia always was scheming, Jill and Frank kept playing their will they/won't they game, and Faith was always a hot mess... and when it looked like all those characters were moving onto new story and/or growth.. she'd pull the rug out from the viewer by having the character resume the same story beat. The first few years of that show, it was ok.. but when Jill/Frank kept doing their dance by the late 80s.. it was like 'enough guys'... and Delia/Faith were shipped out of town by other writers because of the continual holding pattern of these characters. Viewers had gotten conditioned to accept it so the show ended up in a catch 22 because of it. But Labine could tug at the heart strings and write great family scenes like no one else could.

Lisa/ Dr Michael Shea marriage always read as very intense and War of the Roses esque. I remember one of the books summarized that she withheld sex from him.. even locking him out of the bedroom and basically barricading the door... but it never mentioned that he blackmailed her into the marriage. And I guess this is what caused Lisa and Ellen to never get along (which was shown quite a bit in the mid 80s when the two would snip at each other.. but by the early 90s.. the two were cordial, if not a little cool with one another.). I do wish more episodes with Ellen's mom Claire were around. My mom was a child and early teen in the 60s.. and would come home from school during lunch to watch with her mom.. and she mentioned that the Ellen I saw in the 80s/90s was not the same Ellen as she watched in the 60s.. even mentioning how her mother Claire was all about how it looked, trying to look and dress younger, and feeling her youth slipping away because she had become a grandma at such a young age, etc. It is a shame the actress that played Carol left in 1982 because she had been a long time veteran for over a decade and provided consistency with all the changes going on. At the same time, I don't know how she would have fit on the show as the 80s went on because she was a character that was nice, warm, low key, had a backbone, and wasn't insipid. SBH and Marland weren't that good at writing those type of characters without there being either angst, OTT theatrics, or being devoid of a backbone. Plus, I think a lot of what Marland did in late 1985/1986 wouldn't have been possible if the previous writer Susan B Horgan hadn't rebuilt the foundation that he could use to jumpstart his stuff (his ATWT bible even mentioned that he had a pretty good canvas to work from.. all he needed to do was just add a few touches and connect the dots. He had more work to do on ATWT than he did when taking over GL.. but it was in much better shape than General Hospital was when he started).

Back when Sharon Case had decent hair. Now it's so straight and yucky looking. I liked her as Debbie. I often thought she had more to play as Debbie in her one year stint then she's had playing Sharon for many years of her stint.

What I loved reading in the old summaries was the transition between the ending of Leslie/Brad's marriage.. and how Leslie/Lance became a couple... with Brock/Leslie an interesting short-term diversion. I wasn't alive in the 70s, but from reading the summaries.. it seemed to me that I think Leslie kind of milked the helpless act just a little bit. Granted she probably couldn't help being emotionally fragile, but I think she milked it a little bit in order to get attention. I don't excuse the crap Lorie pulled on Leslie, but I understand the reasoning for it. And having it come out that Lorie wasn't Stuart's child probably explained to her why she was always the black sheep of the family.. and probably hardened her to a point of no return. Based on all the families introduced in the 70s and 80s, I think the Abbott family was shown to be the closest. I don't think the Brooks family sounded at all very close (I don't buy the warm and fuzzy 1984 reunion between the Brooks sisters... it just screamed insincere given the history between them in the first years of the show).. and the Foster's don't seem all that close either (I think Jill got shafted in that family because she was a woman).

I think both Marland and Long could write certain male and female characters well, and at the same time, could be off the mark with other male/female characters. Marland struggled to write certain female characters on GL that weren't his creation, and some of his male characters were written better when Long took over. I often think if Pam Long had ever been head-writer on ATWT, I think of the ways she would infused that soap with a little bit of fun and emotion.. since Marland eventually turned ATWT into such a downer in the late 80s/early 90s (great intricate stories, but such a cold apathetic tone.. sometimes Long would never be accused of doing). Laiman... I do recall her era of Days had a lot of strongly written female characters (Jennifer, Kimberly, Kayla, Adrienne, Melissa, Eve etc)...and it seemed like the men were written less well rounded. And I do recall her brief stint on AW had lots of great material for Paulina and Lila. Lorraine Broderick always had a quirky sense of humor infused in her writing (i.e. Janet/Erica/Skye hiding Kinders body is my favorite example... and all the women in Oak Haven right before AMC ended).

Oddly, I think Carol and Steve go well together. The blonde lady that was with Dana Delaney... she obviously didn't last long since she wound up on the Christian Soap Another Life within months (playing a goody goody). Did anyone back than comment that the actress that played Lyla looked younger than the two actresses playing her daughters?

I do think not bringing on Emily was a missed opportunity considering her aunt and cousin were still pretty active and front burning on the show at that time. Since she wasn't raised with the Norris clan, I could have seen her being the black sheep (i.e. the only normal, sane member of the family).

What makes a good head-writer? Is it someone with a clear vision of long term story with wiggle room in case an actor left and/or got pregnant? Or is there something else needed to be a good head writer? I ask because I finally got to see some of Robert Cenedella's work on The Doctor's.. and his stint wasn't all bad or all good either. On episodes where he was the script writer, it was a very strong episode full of great scenes and character development.. but he didn't seem to have a good grasp of long term story and/or pacing. And this is just my impression of seeing his 6 month stint on The Doctors.

When did the focus move from the hospital to outside of the hospital? Was it in the late 70s or more in the 80s? And would you say Marland or Pat Faken Smith started the shift from the hospital to outside of the hospital?

Hmm.. she seems very apathetic in that scene. She seemed more controlled then outright crazy or OTT like the other two actresses were in the part.

@Cat I was thinking the exact same thing... why isn't Dale a housewife?!?! She has a natural ease about her, seems fun and a little quirky, and most important of all...she acts like an adult. I read Tinsley fictional novel she wrote years ago.. it was a decent and enjoyable beach read (I read it in two days.. two beach days).. and I have a feeling that the relationship between her main character and the mother in the book wasn't so fictional after all LOL Good and sad to see Jill again... good because it's always good to see former housewives, but sad it is due to Bobby's death. I don't know if I want to see Jill on the show again.. she really doesn't have much to offer and I have a feeling Jill vs Bethenny would make the series toxic... though I'd trade Tinsley/Sonja for Jill so scratch what I just said lol

Yes it does!! It sounds like there was build-up to Ken shooting Ed... but it sounds like it played out in a way that didn't match with the build-up. I know that when Ken returned in the late 90s... there was a scene where Holly went to Michelle and Jesse for help when he went missing.. and Michelle's body language was hostile to the point where Jesse asked her why she didn't want to help.. and she blurted out that Ken shot her father so why should she help find him.... and Holly felt bad about that happening. I always thought Ken's return in the late 90s was wasted.. he provided good support when Holly was losing it.. but I always felt it would have been better had Ed been on the canvas to deal with what happened in the mid 70s. If that's all Leslie was doing in those last months, it's no wonder why Lynne Adams quit.

@vetsoapfan Were you watching during the Ken shooting Ed era of the show? Did it come out of left field, or was there a decent build up to that happening? I know Cenedella was the one to write that story before his departure. And I know Lynne Adams opted to quit in 1976.. but did the Dobson's do much with Leslie or was she in back burner land during their first months at the helm?

I think the Labine's expanded it when they wrote in the 73-75 period by bringing back Meg and her two kids Ben and Cal thus reestablishing the Meg/Van angle that was popular in the 50s. We also were shown her two kids Ben and Cal that were kind of like Meg/Van (Ben was like Meg and Cal was like Van). From what I've heard, Gabrielle Upton was the one that totally uprooted the canvas by making Ben the nice one.. and writing off Cal.. when the Meg/Cal conflict was a big component to the semi revival the show had in the mid 70s... but I do think the early morning time slot hurt them as well. People always forget time slot can make or break a show sometimes. I also do think if the show continued in 1980, we would have seen the canvas continue to adjust since Marcus was just mere months into her regime and the quality was slowly improving. If rumors were true Tudi was leaving, it could be why Marcus was planning to bring back Van's step daughter to fill the Meg void... and I do think Dana Delaney's character had potential to be a young Meg in training. However, I think the biggest issue for LOL was that the premise was good and evil... Van was all good and Meg was all evil (or more grey when she returned in the 70s). I think as soaps continued to evolve.. the all good and all bad concept was indeed your 'grandmas' soap.. and not a modern day soap. Still if Ann Marcus was given at least another year, I think viewers could have seen what her true vision/plan was because the show was still in transition with the Ben/Mia/Betsy triangle looking to be resolved ( I have a feeling Mia and/or Betsy would have been written off).. Arlene was seen walking away from her abusive husband (and rumors were saying she was wanting to leave so maybe that was setting the stage for her leaving the show).. etc. I think if you looked at the more recent additions, we could see where Marcus was going.. a more modern soap with a connection to the tentpoles Bruce/Van.

I heard that Heather #2 was given the chance to reprise the role, but that she turned the offer down so Robin Mattson was hired instead. It does sound like Heather was made less crazy in the early 80s and even left town semi sane. What was Heather #1 like? I know that she was Cher's half-sister, but there aren't a lot of scenes available of her playing the role. and she was the one that got the ball rolling with her instant crush on Jeff, plotting to break him and Monica up, etc.

My theory for Jada picking the Doctors might of had to do with the 30 minute format, it was the reason why Katherine Glass joined The Doctors later when the ratings were even lower than they were in 1976... the half hour format allowed for shorter work days, more flexibility and maybe the money was better.

Didn't the show kind of do that with Meg's daughter Cal? She seemed more like Vanessa than Meg based on what I read in summaries.

I actually think that story played better then it sounded.. from watching online. She was looking for her father (it made sense she would after becoming a parent and finally seeing things from Mona's point of view).. and seeing him working at a circus was interesting to say the least. He had dreams of stardom hence why he abandoned the family to try his luck in Hollywood.. and seeing him in a circus should have given Erica a rude awakening. But she had other good stories that played better. I tend to look beneath the surface and see the possible motivations for a plot point. I am curious... are there any interviews with Depriest around? I know she's in her 80s now.. but I'd wish someone had interviewed her to find out her thought process for certain stories. I think she was hired on the Doctors because of the action aspect... @Khan That's my theory anyway and based on summaries I've read.. the action is ramped up during her brief stint.