[dmarex]

"Loving," a soap opera created by Agnes Nixon & Douglas Marland in 1983, aired for 12 long years on ABC,
but never was a success on daytime. The show premiered as a TV movie on primetime, and during it's early years,
it centered around the blue-collar Donovans and the blue-blood Aldens. The stories revolved around alcoholism,
post-traumatic stress syndrome, murders, and all storylines known to the world of soap operas.

In 1995, ABC no longer wanted to keep "Loving" on it's schedule. The ratings kept falling. Yet, ABC didn't want to
just make it disappear, so they asked the head writers to write a storyline which could allow some of the character
to return in a spin-off called "The City." Relocated from the fictional town of Corinth, Pennsylvania to the trendy SoHo
neighborhood of New York, the residents all lived and worked together in a single building. This building became the
new setting for the series and housed a bar, a medical clinic, an ad agency, several residential lofts and a penthouse.

Unfortunately, none of these changes were enough to ensure the success of the series. After initial viewer curiosity wore off,
the show began to post lower ratings than its predecessor Loving. Then, in October 1996, the series star Morgan Fairchild
departed the show after her one-year contract expired. In a last ditch effort to keep the show alive, the show transplanted the
popular General Hospital character, Tracy Quartermaine to replace Fairchild as the show's lead villainess. However, ratings
did not improve and the show was canceled after less than a year and a half.

[cityfan01]

I've never heard/read anything of the Dolly Jones character/storyline.

I'd kill for tapes of early Loving if anyone has them...

[CarlD2]

I was watching a clip of when they started to find out about Cabot being alive (imagine an ABC soap today using actors who were over 70 -- Brian Frons would keel over), and it's so much better than most of what is on now. I never understood why Loving was seen as a bad soap. I guess the constant turnover didn't help with reputation. I also remember how much I liked Steffi. I'm sorry Ameila Heinle has not ever been able to make an impression in a role since then.

Who was the casting director during 1993-1994? So many of those actors have gone on to long careers.

I was also going to ask about some of the other stories I heard they had, like a woman addicted to cough syrup, and a trip back to the Old West. Did those stories happen? Were they any good?

[dc11786]

CarlD2, on 22 June 2009 - 08:29 AM, said:

I was watching a clip of when they started to find out about Cabot being alive (imagine an ABC soap today using actors who were over 70 -- Brian Frons would keel over), and it's so much better than most of what is on now. I never understood why Loving was seen as a bad soap. I guess the constant turnover didn't help with reputation. I also remember how much I liked Steffi. I'm sorry Ameila Heinle has not ever been able to make an impression in a role since then.

I believe "Loving" got a bad rap because it was widely inconsistent for such a duration of its run. Characters came and went, while others changed dramatically. Also, the first five years was dominated by uninspiring couples, mainly Jack and Stacey, Trisha and Steve, and Shana and Jim. While these couples took center stage, none of them seemed to gain the following that a soap like "Loving" needed. I think Alex and Ava were the show's first big couple. This worked because of Alex's ties to the Aldens family. Later, Trisha and Trucker gained a similar following.

Yet, even the story you mention highlights the major problems with "Loving." The return of Cabot Alden really wasn't possible. Cabot died on screen of a heart attack. His granddaughter, well not his biological granddaughter, Trisha watched as he flatlined. Jack Forbes would have made more sense given the scenario and really shaken things up. Anyway, the big reveal during the storyline threatened to shake the show to its core: the Solowsky partriarch had created the product which the Aldens used to create their fortune. A guilt ridden Cabot turned over AE to Kate and Ava. This would have really affected everyone on the canvas. Yet, the storyline was swept under the rug in the end.

Steffi was a wonderful character because she was allowed to play a character who was a complete mess. Heinle made that work, but I don't think she gives off the confidence needed for a character like Victoria Newman. I don't think Heinle's material on "All My Children" was all that great, and this as a person who enjoyed Mia and Edmund's romance. Anyway, Heinle seems casted as a traditional ingenue, which doesn't work.

I've never heard of a cough syrup storyline. Only one I've heard of is Dru on Y&R being delusional from cough syrup and sleeping with Malcolm.

"Loving" never went to the Old West, but they did do a past lives story ala "One Life to Live's" Buchanan City storyline. Trisha began having dreams of a wealthy family in the 1800s. The family servant (Robert Tyler) was accused of stealing something from the home. James Horan played the man who had set him up. Reading old RATS board messages, the plot involved a stolen puzzle box which contained the deed to some land. Thaddeus was the actual culprit, but Mr. Robinson was blamed. Tessa was determined to prove Robinson's innonence and got help from a maid (played by Marisol Massey) and the black sheep of the family, played by whichever actor was playing Jack at the time. This all happened in the spring of 1990.

[soapfan770]

Say did they ever find out that (amnesiac)Trisha had run off with Jeff Hartman to Paris and that she wasn't really dead?

[dc11786]

In early 1995, the Aldens learned Trisha was really alive. This was actually Gwyn Alden's motivation for slaughtering the Alden family in the show's final storyline. I don't remember why, but Trucker decided to exhume Trisha's body in January 1995. In February 1995, Trucker had tracked Trisha down to Rome and learned of her existance. Trisha, now calling herself Crystal Hartman, wrote a letter to the Aldens claiming she had no memory of them and didn't want to disrupt her life in Rome. Later, when Trisha's family and friends were being murdered, Jeff Hartman was contacted. He revealed that Trisha/Crystal had suffered a miscarriage and had lost her sanity. In the final weeks of "Loving," Trisha returned to Corinth and was being sheltered by Gwyn, but Trisha managed to escape again.

Trisha's close friend and psuedo family member Shana almost ran into her Rome in June 1994. Shana and Leo married in Rome and relocated there, departing "Loving." Shana ran into Jeff Hartman there who was worried about Shana discovering he was living in Rome with Trisha.

[soapfan770]

Ahh thanks I knew Beck and Trisha came back at some point but I didn't really ever follow the Loving murder mystery regularly. But I was always just an occasional Loving watcher to begin with. I do remember when Jeff found Trisha and tried calling them about finding her but no one was home because they were at her funeral! I do remember Leo and Shana running into Jeff and seeing the back of Trisha or something like that.

By the way who played Jeff in the 90s? Was Richard Steinmetz still playing him, I can't remember.

[dc11786]

I think it was Steinmetz, but I'm not sure if he is ever credited for his 1993 or 1994 appearances online or in books.

[LeClerc]

Does anyone know what went down between Roscoe Born and Morgan Fairchild when they were on The City? I found an old Soap Opera Magazine from 1996 and it had the following blind item that I'm sure is about them:


This big-name East Coast actor had no intention of returning to daytime until his good friend,a big-name actress, convinced him to join her show. Now, many month later, these two refuse to be paired as a couple- or even be in the same storyline. They are both counting the days until she leaves the show

In the beginning it seemed like Nick and Sydney were supposed to be the big pairing on the show, but it promptly ended and they went with Sydney & Danny (until Morgan left) and Nick & Lorraine. I had always suspected that something happened between the actors, and when I saw that blind item it confirmed it.

Once the Nick/Sydney thing fizzled Roscoe was really wasted on the show. Esensten & Brown said that they tried to play 2.5 stories per episode, and usually that extra .5 was irrelevant banter between Nick and Jacob at the bar.

[dc11786]

I don't know anything about this, but I do know they played lovers in the 1980s on the deliciously wicked short lived primetime soap "Paper Dolls."

[CarlD2]

I was just watching some clips of Casey and Ally. Laura Wright and PAS had such great chemistry together (and it was nice to see Laura before she became so cold as an actress). I wish GL hadn't chickened out in their plans to put them together -- they still had good chemistry even as Danny and Cassie.

I hope PAS can get a good soap job soon.

[dc11786]

Ugh. I hated Danny and Cassie together almost as much as I hated Danny and Marina together. I know most people absolutely loved Millee Taggert, but she and Lucky Gold wrote some pretty degrading stuff for the women on "Guiding Light." Cassie stripping for Danny as payment for the loan was by no means the start of romance. I guess the intention was to play on Cassie's past by showing how far she was willing to go for her family, but Stewart just brought nothing to the scene. Danny worked better as a town pariah after the warehouse bombing, which was the last sweeps storyline "Guiding Light" did that I enjoyed.

I love what I've read about the quad between Ally/Casey/Steffi/Cooper. I was shocked by how much chemistry Stewart had with Amelia Heinle as well. I cannot say enough how strong that younger set became. It's too bad Weatherly and Stewart left when they did.

I know I'm in the minority, but I think Laura Wright is a talented actress. I thought she and Stephanie Gatschet had wonderful mother-daughter chemistry. Also, Tognoni worked really well with Wright and Dinah never really worked for me after Wright (and ver Dorn) left.

There are a lot of Casey/Ally clips up on youtube covering most of their love story. I think the last set of clips are from their wedding.

This post has been edited by dc11786: 24 September 2009 - 10:36 PM

[CarlD2]

I agree with you about the degrading writing for women on GL at that time. I still get angry at the memory of Marah ripping off her clothes and daring Tony to go through with his rape attempt. I hated the Cassie money problems story, I thought it was contrived, as was the feud with Reva, but I did think she and PAS had good chemistry.

So Casey and Steffi were involved? I didn't know that.

What do you think has happened to Amelia Heinle over the years? Didn't she seem better on Loving? Or was she just fresher?

Can you tell me more about Casey's father, Gifford? I don't know that much about him. Did he come back when Casey was killed?

Do you think the show did a very good job of adding new characters in the late 80s, or were most of them not that good?

This post has been edited by CarlD2: 24 September 2009 - 10:40 PM

[dc11786]

Cassie's money woes was a stretch. Richard was the prince of an island nation. Were her assets all tied up in the Beacon?

Casey and Steffi were together around late 1993. I believe Coop and Ally were engaged at the time because of Tyler. Heinle played Steffi as this hot mess of a character and it worked. I think there is this haunted quality to Heinle's performances that worked for Steffi, but hasn't worked for her other roles. I loved Mia after she had been dumped by Edmund and Jake returned engaged to Carolyn.

Gifford was introduced by Mary Ryan-Munisteri as a love interest for Gwyn Alden. He worked at the university as an art professor and was a part of the early stages of the Alden U revamp in 1992, even though he was introduced in late 1991. Giff eventually became involved with Trisha Alden when Trucker slept with nanny Dinahlee. A few months later, Addie Walsh was the headwriter and she introduced Casey, Giff's son by Alise Casey. Giff and Casey were reunited at Alise's grave and Giff talked about his time in a commune. Then Walsh fought with new producer Haidee Granger. Granger was defacto headwriter and had Giff go insane. Giff kidnapped Christopher from Trisha when she was shopping at Burnell's and gave the baby up for adoption. When it all came out, Giff kidnapped Trisha and held her in the belfry at Alden U. He ended up falling from the belfry and died. Giff did appear after his death when Casey was doing drugs and was haunted by his father.

"Loving" struggled introducing characters because it had no focus. For a while, the show focused on youth storylines featuring future stars Teri Polo and Luke Perry. The only new characters that worked were Alex, Clay, and Egypt. Other characters came and went with ease and were forgotten. This continued into the early 1990s. Characters like Rocky, Rio, Todd, Norma, Armando, Kent, and Abril came and went without being remembered. f

[CarlD2]

How long were Teri and Luke on the show? I didn't think Luke was aroudn that long. Were they any good?

It's a shame they made Gifford a lunatic. I thought he was a great character in those clips he had when Casey arrived. Do you think they made the right decision?

I had no idea Mary Ryan Munisteri wrote for the show. I take it she wasn't around long? She wrote for RH for years. I think her headwriting stint there wasn't a success.

So this Granger woman wasn't any good?

I agree with you about Laura Wright. I always liked her as Ally, when I watched Loving/The City, and I liked her on her GL run, most of the time. I think what I miss in her later work is that she used to have vulnerability along with the toughness, and some warmth. Most of that is gone now, it's just the toughness.

[dc11786]

Just so its clear, my information comes from weekly columns written by people like Lynda Hirsch and Selig Seligman (spelling?). The only video I've seen was online. I also read second hand accounts from 1992-1995 on RATS.

No one was around much in the 1980s. They would be on contract for about one storyline and then they would be written off. Post-Marland, there doesn't seem to be much focus on characterization. Teri Polo was on for at least six months. She was brought on as the spoiler to the April/Ned relationship. Teri Polo's Kristen was a classmate of theirs who was in love with Ned and learned April was prostituting. Ned learned the truth and abandoned April for Kristen. Ned ended up joining his sister Lotty and her husband Curtis in Germany. I think Ned was on for at least a year while Teri Polo was on about six months to a year.

I found Casey's introduction scenes odd. The dialogue was a bit hookey in my opinion. I just didn't buy into the scenario and some of the commune stuff seemed a bit much. Also, Casey's real name was Revel or something. Gifford was ultimately replaced with Jeremy Hunter as the central AU figure. I don't think it made much a difference. I think Giff's death was a defining moment for Casey and allowed him to deal with abandonment issues that helped shape him.

Mary Ryan Munisteri wrote around late 1991 til early 1992. She replaced Taggert and King and was followed by Addie Walsh. I think she was the one who reestablished the Alden family after they had been written off early in 1991. Unfortunately, I think her vision clashed with Fran Sears. Sears wanted to establish the college as the central focus and had Addie Walsh spend time researching modern univeristy life including the Greek system and spending a lot of time casting generation X. Yet, someone in the upper echleons most have not liked it cause Sears was replaced with Granger either before or in the early stages of the material hitting the air. Granger's wikipedia page talks about her stint on "Loving." I suspect Granger may have written it herself.

The AMC rejects weren't incorporated very well into the "Loving" cavas. Angie was brought on as Shana's obstetrician and then was paired with newcomer Charles Harrison, the partner of the recently returned Alex Masters.

I haven't seen Wright much on "General Hospital," but I never could accept Nicole Forrester as Cassie.

As defacto headwriter, her summer was rough. The college story petered out without much plot. There was a ghost story plot and the revelation that a preteen Cooper had seduced his nanny. Jack Forbes 'died' during his honeymoon after finally reuniting with his love Stacey. There was the blink and you miss it reunion between Gwyn and Clay before Gwyn slept with lawyer Armando Rosario. Ava found work at Burnell's only to become involved in a drug ring and have her secret boss turn out to be Leo Burnell, an old high school classmate. Originally, Curtis Alden seemed the likely secret admirer. The mysterious boss of Burnell's seemed to care for Ava. Ava had been married to Curtis and Burnell's was an Alden Enterprises company in the 1980s.

Granger did manage to hire Amelia Heinle and I believe one of her final moves was to hire Dennis Partalo as temp Clay Alden. Casting wise her run was pretty successful. Hiring Millee Taggert and Robert Guza should have been a good move given Taggert's history with the show ( she had written "Loving" with Tom King from September 1988 until sometime in 1991). Taggert and Guza won a Writer's Guild award for their work, but their storytelling was weak. The Curtis/Tess/Buck storyline was bad. Trucker's dad faking an illness was bad. The Ava/Jeremy pairing wasn't very exciting. What I did like was the quad focusing on Ally's pregnancy and Shana's insemination leading to her love for Leo.

OT: Munisteri's stint on "Ryan's Hope" wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. It wasn't Labine & Mayer, but it was hardly "Kirkland's Hope." THe only person really involved with the show to call it that was Ron Hale, who was backburnered during Munisteri's run. Most of the other major players had major story from Jack to Siobhan to Pat to Seneca to Delia. The final months of Munisteri's tenure were definitely Kirkland overload, but Munisteri was probably out by then.

[CarlD2]

Thank you for all the details. Was Lotty married to Curtis Alden?

I was watching some of a 1989 episode on Youtube and Jack was charming Stacey on a train trip. Did he play Jack all along? Why did he leave? Perry Stephens seemed good from the little I saw. He reminds me of Simon Baker. Too bad Stacey didn't get to have a happy ending with him instead of dating Buck and getting killed.

You never hear a lot about Stacey considering she was on the show from the start almost to the finish.

That's funny about Grainger and Wikipedia.

Who was Trisha's brother Rick?

This post has been edited by CarlD2: 26 September 2009 - 08:37 PM

[dc11786]

Lotty was originally introduced as Lorna Forbes' cellmate when she was accused of killing Zona Beecham. Lotty was romanced by Curtis, but I think she was already married to Eban Japes. It may have been a common law marriage, but Eban seemed to make a big deal about it. Eban was killed at TRisha and Steve's wedding. Ned worked Steve at the garage keeping them all connected.

Lotty and Curtis did marry after Curtis and Ava'a marriage went kaput and I think they left town shortly after. They must have done it by contract because I think Curtis left first followed by Lotty and then Ned joined them. I may be remembering this bit incorrectly.

Stephens was replaced by Christopher Cass who played the part for year, or maybe two. I believe Cass' big story was his infidelity with Dinahlee or Stacey believing Jack had banged their nanny, Dinahlee. I don't think the intention was to kill off Jack. In February 1991, Cabot Alden kicked the bucket and left the fortune to Jack unless Clay was able to produce an heir (apparently Curtis was non-existant). Anyway, CLay had impregnanted San Rafael refugee/Amourelle model Abril Domeq who was going to give her baby to Trisha and Trucker after their own child, Christopher, had died. Trisha and Trucker even named Abril's baby, a boy, Thomas after Trucker (Trucker was simply a nickname). Tommy was suppose to inherit the fortune upon becoming legal, but until that point Jack was given the fortune.

In June 1992, Clay Alden learned AE janitor Tim Sullivan was his biological father just as he was passing away. Apparently, Isabelle had slept with Tim while Cabot was off fighting a war and little Clay was the result. Clay was devastated and determined to ruin the family. In June/July, Jack and Stacey remarried and Jack managed to disappear during their honeymoon cruise. Around the same time, Clay disappeared. When he returned, he managed to drug Stacey, the new AE heir, into marriage and proceeded to have her locked away after driving her insane. Initally, it seemed Clay might have known about Jack's whereabouts, but it was never really stated firmly.

The last time it was really handled was during the Cradle Foundation storyline which brought Cabot Alden back from the dead. Cooper believed Jack was actually alive and went as far as telling Stacey he was alive. This was July or August 1994 when the show was being preempted left and right for OJ Simpson. Simpson did really hurt "Loving" who was in the middle of a creative renaissance.

I don't know why Stephens left. I've read some early reviews which state he could be wooden at times. Since he was recast I assume he left of his own accord. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago.

I know most love the Cornith serial killer plot, but I don't think it was a good idea. In the end, the Alden family was to important to those few fans who were left. Many were not impressed with the final year as a whole.

Stacey/Jack and Shana/Jim were the shows first 'big' couples and neither of them got together until 1984. Stacey/Jack did care for one another, but Jack was dealing with the revelation Dane Hammond was his father. Jack sought comfort from Ava, who Dane admired. Ava got pregnant just as Stacey became engaged to Jack's boarding school chum Tony Perelli. On Tony and Stacey's wedding day, Stacey said, "I take thee, Jack...." YIKES! Anyway, Jack didn't want to marry Ava, and then she lost the baby. Her sister Sheri was preggers as well and Dane offered to give Ava the money to buy Sheri's baby. Sheri had another daughter, Patty, who needed hip surgery so her desire for money was centered in a love for her child. Anyway, Jack and Ava married, but their marriage was a shame. Almost immediately, Jack and Stacey got back togehter infuriating Ava. Ava and Jack divorced and Ava got custody of little Johnny. At some point, Tony and Stacey reunited and went to live in California. Jack eventually joined them with baby Johnny. Later, Johnny was given back to his real parents and Jack suffered a brain tumor while Stacey was pregnant with their son. This took them til about the end of 1986.

From 1987 to 1988, you have the return of Lily Slater, freshly escaped from the nuthouse. Lily comes back to town to seduce Jack away from his wife while Rick Alden decides he wants Stacey for himself. Lily and Jack had an affair and Lily went nuts again, while Jack wanted to back off after Steve died saving Stacey and J.J.'s life. Stacey learned the truth and turned to Rick for comfort. During the Writer's Strike, Lily was involved with a battered woman and her abusive husband at a homeless shelter. I'm not really clear on the details. Anyway, Tom King and Millee Taggert arrived and wrote Lily off. Jack became involved with a character name Jolie, but I'm not clear on how this all came about.

Rick Alden was the son Gwyn gave up for adoption. He came to town after Clay turned out to be alive, but turned out to be a 'fraud' when the blood test showed he couldn't be Clay and Gwyn's son. Of course, this was because Clay was really Alex Masters. I'm not sure what Rick during the Ron Tummi run, but the recast was involved with Stacey. She wrote a book about her romance with the Alden cousins, had a baby by Rick, was drugged into marriage by Rick, and was later accused of Rick's murder. Rick was a baddie who got involved in one scheme too many and ended up dead because of it.

[EricMontreal22]

CarlD2, on 28 January 2009 - 06:41 PM, said:

What role did Myrtle have on Loving?

Cesar Faison appeared on Loving several years after being "killed" on GH. He kidnapped Ava and I think they went to Disneyworld or something.

Universal Florida (King Kong kidnapped Ava). It was before ABC was owned by Disney

Cearanever had a contract role on Loving--she was on briefly in 91 (when her and Jeremy went to Corinth to work on their marriage)then the following year when Jeremy made the movie Ceara was shot justr before she could (cuz ABC wanted the actress on GH)

[dc11786]

Just to clarify, Genie Francis only appeared on "Loving" from October until December 1991. When Jeremy arrived in Cornith in October 1992, he was alone. Ceara had agreed to move with him and was set to arrive in Decemeber. When Ceara arrived at the airport, a drug dealer was being apprehended and Ceara was shot and killed during a shoot out. I believe a body double was used.

[EricMontreal22]

Loving was my fave show off and on back then and as an AMC fan and a big fan of Ceara (I didn't even knwo back then who Genie F was) I foudn it insulting how she made her exit--with a double, etc