Y&R March 2021 Discussion Thread

[Cat]

@Forever8 From what little I have seen, Amelia Heinle was great on Loving. She also had her fans from her stint on AMC. IMO there were a couple of factors at play which all came together and resulted in AH being recast as Victoria.

 

Firstly, the ABCfication of Y&R. There was a fear that Y&R's audience was aging out and they were losing some of the younger demos who had tuned in at the height of Billy/Mac's romance and the Brash n Sassy years. Those teen SLs were petering out. 

 

Secondly, there was already a shift in how writers on soaps were expected to write women. The strong businesswomen of the 80s and early 90s were going by the wayside. Pretty faces were being sought out to play archetypes (to use one of Mal Young's favourite words).

 

Thirdly, Heather Tom. Such a strong performer and Emmy-winner. Y&R and CBS did not want to be seen to be pushing her out -- but they did want to cap her pay and her guarantees. I think there was a general feeling that Tom did not have the traditionally pretty looks of a 'standard soap heroine archetype' (that word again) and TPTB did not know how to write for HT's character. By that, I mean multilayered. Contradictory. Emotional. Rageful. Heather Tom's Victoria struck me as someone who had this rage bubbling just below the surface -- rage at having to prove herself, rage with regards to self-esteem issues. Rage towards her parents. That rage wasn't 'pretty.' It wasn't the kind of female stuff that soaps wanted to portray. Bill Bell was happy to write Victoria like that back on the day because he was fascinated by people's psychology and why they do emotional, unpredictable things. I have the feeling Jack Smith was under pressure to 'modernize' the writing, pick up the pace, and keep things simpler. Including characterization.

 

Consequently, Amelia Heinle ticked some boxes, in that she was considered more attractive that Heather Tom, she had ABC soaps under her belt, and it was likely that she would play Victoria in the way TPTB could more easily conceive her to be.

 

This leaves us with the question: could Heinle play a more complex, layered character if she had the writing? Or is she happy to stay in her comfort zone and do her work as written? IOW, do we blame the actress for the way Victoria is currently portrayed, or the writers?

 

Answer (IMO): it is a bit of both. I personally feel Heinle, as sparky an actress as she once was, just does not have it in her to play ranges of emotion all at once anymore. When I see her onscreen, it feels so one-note and dour. Her 'business' SLs are so boring, and for that we should blame the writers 100%. But she seems so cold, blank and one-dimensional in those. Sometimes, even with very limited material, a talented and experienced actor tries to make the content more interesting that it actually is. Eileen Davidson is that actor. Melody Thomas Scott is that actor. I'll even give it to Sharon Case, Michael Mealor and Eric Braeden. Amelia Heinle is not that actor.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Cat

[KMan101]

 

Right? I swear I liked her once! She was fine on AMC (though I remember tiring of Mia towards the end). She's just miscast as Victoria and just doesn't really rise above what's written. Like others have said, I'm not sure what to take from her portrayal as Victoria. It reads as a messy performance, IMO. None of it works. She's just ... there. Like @FrenchBug82 said Victoria is a character things happen to, like so many characters I'd argue on soaps. I've noticed that more and more. Characters exist and things happen to them but there's no depth (Josh Griffith does this, and Ron Carlivati does this on DAYS). We're lucky we get what we do if we have a talented script writer.

 

Maxie on GH is a great example of this. They're not writing *for* Maxie, they're writing around her and using her for Peter.

Edited March 22, 2021 by KMan101

[BoldRestless]

In those scenes where she did her presentation to Ashland she was just so bad. Couldn't pull off either the business part or the flirting. It just looked goofy.

 

I always thought it would play to her acting style if they wrote Victoria as developing anxiety or an eating disorder. She has kind of a nervous energy. It would work in her history of sex therapy dating back to Ryan and the more recent JT abuse stuff not to mention all the Billy BS over the years. If we're supposed to buy her as the superwoman who runs an international conglomerate, is a romantic heroine, and an involved mom, she's just not believable. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by BoldRestless

[KMan101]

 

Goofy is a good word for her portrayal as Victoria at times.

 

She does have nervous energy, you're right. They should tap into that. I feel like *maybe* she plays it that way (trying to give her some credit here) but they of course don't have any interest in writing for the character so we're just left wondering why's acting like a hot mess.

 

It just isn't believable, you're right. A decent writer would at least try. Griffith has laser focus on a few of his pets and that seems to be it. No one else really exists unless they have to be on for their episode guarantees. Just how it feels so often.

 

That's exactly what should have happened. A decent writer would. 

 

It's very wash/rinse/repeat with Victoria, like you said. 

 

I have to lol that Nick is on the backburner. I'm not upset either. It was time. 

 

Nikki absolutely deserves better.

 

Griffith just doesn't seem to care about most of the cast except for a select few. It's the Sharon, Adam, Billy, Victoria, Lily, Phyllis show with a dash of Devon and Amanda, Summer and Kyle and Jack and Sally. Throw in a pop-in by Victor, Nikki, Traci and Lauren and you have yourself a Griffith episode. And some of them aren't even really being written for as their own character.

Edited March 22, 2021 by KMan101

[Forever8]

Well her character on Loving did have an eating disorder...

[Cat]

 

Feeling the bold in particular very strongly. Abby is a good example of this. Things happen to her, but I'm not even sure what kind of personality she is supposed to be. 

[Forever8]

Does anyone know who else was up for the role of Victoria in 2005? I know Carrie Genzel (Skye # 3 on AMC) was a contender. Sally Sussman and Kay Alden were the only ones who was able to write her as Victoria with strength which made me take notice of her in a scene when she was going off on Juliet in that tiny Brash & Sassy set. Although, I wasn't keen on them writing her as a "Suburban Soccer Mom" who couldn't balance motherhood and business. I'm like you have five-hundred-million dollars go hire nannies for each child. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Forever8

[Cat]

According to Wikipedia, Rachel Kimsley was up for the role (!) but when Ashley Bashioum left the role of Mackenzie, Kimsey got that instead.

 

Kimsey, Heinle -- seems like Y&R was not looking for big names or Emmy winners to play Victoria. This also reminds me of a period of time in soaps in the 2000s when every time a female character got recast, the rumor was that Jamie Luner was up for the part.

 

Back in the day, I wanted Gina Tognoni or Cynthia Watros to play Victoria. There was a rumor that GT was up for the part but for whatever reason it did not go to her, or she had scheduling conflicts, or something.

[kalbir]

Also this September, Heather Tom will have been Katie for longer than she was Victoria.

 

Some soap names I read that were considered for 2005 Victoria recast were Sarah Brown and Christie Clark.

[Cat]

 

I can't even process that. Heather Tom won three Emmys as Victoria on Y&R and I can actually picture the scenes/SLs for which she won.

 

Sarah Brown would have been a really strong recast IMO.

 

 

[KMan101]

 

Abby's an excellent example

[Forever8]

I think GT was going back to OLTL at the time and didn't want to relocate to the West Coast. This was before Villy 1.0 happened. Now that you mentioned I remember hearing about Rachel Kimsey too and I was like okay... I also heard Jamie Luner was up for Carly after Tamara Braun left GH. I also believe Megan Ward and Jenna Gering (Galen Gering's wife) were contenders for Carly too. 

[Vee]

IIRC JFP wanted Gina for Carly #3 at GH in the mid-2000s. It didn't happen. I think Gina was better on Y&R (and GL) than she ever was on OLTL.

[FrenchBug82]

I'll be honest that none of the names listed as being floated for Victoria strike me as good choices. Good actresses for the most part but either too old or not just ringing right.

As far as the AH or the writers' fault, debate: it is the writers fault first and foremost but AH made a conscious choice of letting her acting be carried by the flows of the river rather than give her character a thoroughline that resists the vagaries of the bad writing. 
Look at HT's Katie: Lord knows the writing is all over the place, the storylines contradictory with each other but you KNOW who Katie is and she doesn't waver regardless of the type of storyline. And Lord knows it is not on the page. It is entirely her that is carrying the character.
The nothingness of the character of Victoria is in the writing. But AH is content to just play it without trying to characterize - unlike the way she did, as everyone points out, very well as Steffy on Loving, which was not really a well-written show either. She did bitchy vulnerable very well as that character and I was not surprised when they casted her because it totally fit within the realm of what Victoria had been.
Except she is not trying. She is pulling a Nick. She acts what is written, enjoys the 9-to-5 job and cashes the check. But she is not trying to give it life. And that's on her.
Not everything HT was written in her 13 years was good or interesting. But she sold the hell out of everything. Heck, since we were comparing her with PB, Lord knows Jack had has a lot of clunker storylines that made no sense but, say what you want about him, he always sells it 100%.

 

[Ponds]

HT is so wasted on the 1/2 hour soap B&B.  They could have moved her anytime they wanted.  I'm sure now that she's older and has a child, the shorter work schedule is good for her.