33 minutes ago, Dax7000 said:

I'm so torn on JT and Victor. Victor's never hit a woman, but he's done so much that it's hard to root for him. I'd prefer if Nikki just kills again. 

He threw Diane out of an ambulance.

 

 

Edited March 22, 20187 yr by Faulkner

19 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

He threw Diane out of an ambulance.

 

 

Thank you. That is JUST as bad as hitting a woman. He literally threw her from a moving vehicle in disgust. Seriously sometimes when I think about all the [!@#$%^&*] Victor's done just since I've been watching this show, I'm shocked he's not been murdered. When Jack screamed at him today that he couldn't wait for him to drop dead, I was thinking go Jack. This guy sucks.

Edited March 22, 20187 yr by Antoyne

21 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

He threw Diane out of an ambulance.

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

He threw Diane out of an ambulance.

 

 

Wow, I had never seen that. I wish they would kill off Victor. I know he's a legend on the show and all that, but he gets worse and worse as time goes on. Between the semi-constant issues with Braeden over salary and sinking ratings for soaps overall, I kinda wonder if the show could actually handle either getting rid of him or reducing his role. 

 

I don't know if it's true that Eric Braeden demands Victor never lose, but that also should die imo. It's not like they have much to lose by ignoring him and writing what they please.  I usually never want to see a vet lose their importance to a show, but they have increasingly made Victor into a character that's almost impossible to ever enjoy.

11 minutes ago, Dax7000 said:

Wow, I had never seen that. I wish they would kill off Victor. I know he's a legend on the show and all that, but he gets worse and worse as time goes on. Between the semi-constant issues with Braeden over salary and sinking ratings for soaps overall, I kinda wonder if the show could actually handle either getting rid of him or reducing his role. 

 

I don't know if it's true that Eric Braeden demands Victor never lose, but that also should die imo. It's not like they have much to lose by ignoring him and writing what they please.  I usually never want to see a vet lose their importance to a show, but they have increasingly made Victor into a character that's almost impossible to ever enjoy.

Trust me I’ve replayed John and Nick punching him over and over when I’m really pissed off at the character 😁😁😁 he actually was alright all of last year, (gotta at least thank Sally for that) but it’s just the things that were mentioned that Victor did that I can’t forget like Colleen’s death and Diane in the ambulance, even Jack/Marco....however I admit as much as I miss Katherine and Jeanne very much, I think I’ll always be bothered how Victor could do no wrong towards her in her last few years...it doesn’t help that she spent 2-3 out of her last 5 months ever on the show, bitching at Jack for his Newman takeover, after knowing Victor had taken over and tried to bring Jabot down many times...she was being a hypocrite.

And it didn't have a PSA. We were supposed to cheer over him throwing her out of that ambulance. I've never looked at him the same since. 

1 hour ago, ajsp35801 said:

And it didn't have a PSA. We were supposed to cheer over him throwing her out of that ambulance. I've never looked at him the same since. 

That's because MAB must have thought it was like a scene out of one of those old sitcoms she loved....

2 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

Trust me I’ve replayed John and Nick punching him over and over when I’m really pissed off at the character 😁😁😁 he actually was alright all of last year, (gotta at least thank Sally for that) but it’s just the things that were mentioned that Victor did that I can’t forget like Colleen’s death and Diane in the ambulance, even Jack/Marco....however I admit as much as I miss Katherine and Jeanne very much, I think I’ll always be bothered how Victor could do no wrong towards her in her last few years...it doesn’t help that she spent 2-3 out of her last 5 months ever on the show, bitching at Jack for his Newman takeover, after knowing Victor had taken over and tried to bring Jabot down many times...she was being a hypocrite.

They ruined Katherine in the last years of Jeanne's life. It's even weirder since her friendship with Victor was always somewhat..odd to me. I saw that they were close, but it just always seemed somewhat guarded compared to her friendship with Nikki and such. That could be a male/female dynamic vs female/female thing. I don't know.

 

I was really appalled when she turned on Tucker for underhanded business tactics, going as far as to criticize him for using Victor's personal family drama against him. I recall a scene where Ashley basically told Katherine off for doing so. It was delightful. Katherine would always bring up her long friendship with John whenever it suited her agenda, but she never had the backs of his kids the way she did Victor.

 

I think the things you mentioned as specifically why I have issues with him. He has the literal heart of an Abbott, but still goes after Jack all the time. I don't know. I preferred the mid to late 80's and 90's Victor. He was ruthless, but stopped short of seeming evil. 

3 minutes ago, Dax7000 said:

They ruined Katherine in the last years of Jeanne's life. It's even weirder since her friendship with Victor was always somewhat..odd to me. I saw that they were close, but it just always seemed somewhat guarded compared to her friendship with Nikki and such. That could be a male/female dynamic vs female/female thing. I don't know.

 

I was really appalled when she turned on Tucker for underhanded business tactics, going as far as to criticize him for using Victor's personal family drama against him. I recall a scene where Ashley basically told Katherine off for doing so. It was delightful. Katherine would always bring up her long friendship with John whenever it suited her agenda, but she never had the backs of his kids the way she did Victor.

 

I think the things you mentioned as specifically why I have issues with him. He has the literal heart of an Abbott, but still goes after Jack all the time. I don't know. I preferred the mid to late 80's and 90's Victor. He was ruthless, but stopped short of seeming evil. 

I don't really think Katherine and Victor were totally close that much in the 80's/90's I mean obviously he helped her with the Chancellor business, and was a major part of the Nikki/Kevin/Bancroft story....and naturally Nikki and Katherine became very close....but some of the earlier Katherine/Victor scenes I watched kind of show a different side of their relationship....it's kind of hard to find the right words to describe it, but they both seemed more wary of what the other's flaws were and weren't afraid to throw it in their faces.....Katherine even said to Nikki that " a man like that would drive anyone to drink" when Nikki used Katherine's alcoholism as an excuse to get away so she could try to abort the baby (Victoria) so Victor wouldn't know.....Victor had told Nikki in an earlier scene that Nikki shouldn't waste her time looking out for a "lady drunk"......there are also scenes where Katherine and Victor snipe at each other, and he even accuses her of being a meddler.......it just shows the "warm and fuzziness" of them being BFF's was totally retconned through the years, (or at least the final years)....I know people can get closer, but that was concrete proof even Katherine and Victor barely tolerated each other in certain situations....

I can't imagine what their relationship would be like today.....I'm sure it would be the same as it has been, despite Victor's schemes getting worse and worse....I'll never forget when Katherine found out that Victor held Billy captive while Delia was sick and needed bone marrow.....because it wasn't even Jeanne playing her at the time, it was when Michael Learned temped for her.......the one time I would have liked to have seen Katherine angry with Victor, (in recent Y&R) she was played by another actress....

21 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

Heather Tom has been gone almost 15 years. Can we please give it (and her) a rest? Amelia Heinle was great in those scenes with TL. She is Victoria.

 

AH was also very good in those scenes where Ashley put Victoria in her place. HT would have given Ashley a run for her money? That wasn’t in the script.

 

HT is a good actress, but since all she’s done lately is wail and sob as the tears stream, I hardly think she’s Meryl Streep.

 

I agree. Amelia Heile is doing very well when the script calls for it. Truth be told, Heather Tom has gotten better writing for most of her duration. Heinle has not gotten anywhere close to that. And to say that Heather Tom’s Victoria would never be there, well guess what, with domestic violence even the strongest woman can be victims. It’s almost insulting and the reason why people don’t speak up because they are embarrassed.

 

But you’re not going to convince people around here, so best to just agree to disagree. 

 

I also don’t see why JT has to die because he’s a dosmetic abuser. Many of these POS continue to live and hurt other women. Not saying it’s right, but the world is plenty grey. 

 

 

5 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

Besides JT criticizing what Victoria eats nothing else he's said or done has been abusive or controlling.

 

I think your dislike for Victoria/AH clouds your judgment in this story

14 minutes ago, StepBack said:

I think your dislike for Victoria/AH clouds your judgment in this story

 

No. It doesn't.

 

Name ONE thing that JT has done besides criticizing what Victoria eats (which is out of character) that has been abusive or controlling.

Edited March 23, 20187 yr by DeeeDee

15 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I was the same. That really changed my opinion about her, more than any of her work in the role. I thought she acted like a spoiled brat in her interviews and I can't imagine what the work environment must have been for David Tom. 

 

Anybody got a link to those interviews? Any source for that work environment with David Tom? I keep reading about it on this board, but there’s never any evidence — just people repeating stuff they heard.

3 hours ago, YRfan23 said:

I don't really think Katherine and Victor were totally close that much in the 80's/90's I mean obviously he helped her with the Chancellor business, and was a major part of the Nikki/Kevin/Bancroft story....and naturally Nikki and Katherine became very close....but some of the earlier Katherine/Victor scenes I watched kind of show a different side of their relationship....it's kind of hard to find the right words to describe it, but they both seemed more wary of what the other's flaws were and weren't afraid to throw it in their faces.....Katherine even said to Nikki that " a man like that would drive anyone to drink" when Nikki used Katherine's alcoholism as an excuse to get away so she could try to abort the baby (Victoria) so Victor wouldn't know.....Victor had told Nikki in an earlier scene that Nikki shouldn't waste her time looking out for a "lady drunk"......there are also scenes where Katherine and Victor snipe at each other, and he even accuses her of being a meddler.......it just shows the "warm and fuzziness" of them being BFF's was totally retconned through the years, (or at least the final years)....I know people can get closer, but that was concrete proof even Katherine and Victor barely tolerated each other in certain situations....

I can't imagine what their relationship would be like today.....I'm sure it would be the same as it has been, despite Victor's schemes getting worse and worse....I'll never forget when Katherine found out that Victor held Billy captive while Delia was sick and needed bone marrow.....because it wasn't even Jeanne playing her at the time, it was when Michael Learned temped for her.......the one time I would have liked to have seen Katherine angry with Victor, (in recent Y&R) she was played by another actress....

I agree. There's a clip in one of the 80's compilations where he basically said Katherine drank for attention. He was not fond of her friendship with Nikki at the time. Even in the late 90's, when Brock was missing, he called her "a nice lady". That's kind of distant sounding for a supposed close friend, so it was really annoying how she became the Victor Newman Fan Club president towards the end. 

 

So many things on Y&R didn't make sense in later years. I never really liked how they suddenly started having everyone behave as if Katherine was a saint and Jill had always been so vicious and cruel. Jill wasn't very nice, especially once the show decided to go the Alexis Carrington route with her, but one of the great things about the feud had been that neither woman was an angel. They were both flawed, damaged, and complex.

 

Katherine's obsession had largely helped turn her into the manipulative woman she became. Katherine was a drunk who rarely took responsibility for her own misdeeds. This was beautifully portrayed through at least the mid 90's. Characters like Rex and John would call Katherine out for being obsessed and petty. I remember Jill saying to Jack during the battle for Chancellor mansion, something like, "I was trying to get my dreams back". It was the scene after she crashed Katherine's party and the whole town attacked her for being so nasty to Katherine. 

 

I will say I did enjoy some of the later stuff, such as when Katherine admitted she never loved Phillip as much as she hated Jill for taking him. That was good. Moments like that were enjoyable to me.

2 hours ago, StepBack said:

 

I agree. Amelia Heile is doing very well when the script calls for it. Truth be told, Heather Tom has gotten better writing for most of her duration. Heinle has not gotten anywhere close to that. And to say that Heather Tom’s Victoria would never be there, well guess what, with domestic violence even the strongest woman can be victims. It’s almost insulting and the reason why people don’t speak up because they are embarrassed.

 

But you’re not going to convince people around here, so best to just agree to disagree. 

 

I also don’t see why JT has to die because he’s a dosmetic abuser. Many of these POS continue to live and hurt other women. Not saying it’s right, but the world is plenty grey. 

 

 

 

I think you’re right about agreeing to disagree, StepBack. I knew I’d get killed here for defending Heinle, but I did it anyway. Posters know they’re beating a dead horse by talking about HT’s Victoria, but they’re still doing it 15 years later. 

 

Is this behavior OOC for JT? I’m not sure it is. He’s been gone a long time, and people change. In addition, a lot has happened to him — and those happenings weren’t filled in for us. JT was a question mark in many ways.

 

in the months he’s been back, Luckinbill has been great at portraying both the happiness at being back AND the problems and concerns and anxiety he has. He never seemed less than restless.

 

i have no problem with JT as this guy (even though I’d rather have TL on contract). I CERTAINLY don’t think CLB or Rikaart would’ve been better as the angry abuser.

 

Finally, let me say that Y&R has been really good this week. We can all disagree on actors and storylines, but none of the other soaps measures up to what Y&R is doing. In my mind, it’s still far and away the best soap in daytime.

 

2 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

 

No. It doesn't.

 

Name ONE thing that JT has done besides criticizing what Victoria eats (which is out of character) that has been abusive or controlling.

 

The way he constantly berates her, for starters. I'd say choking her against the wall qaulifies. Before that, he verbally abused her. What person constantly throws another's faults in their face daily?