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Trayvon Martin Killing


Eric83

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I don't really disagree with much of the characterization of rap or certain rappers. But to be fair, it's not all bad and here and globally there are still socially conscientious rappers in existence so let's narrow it down to the specifically destructive elements of rap. Once upon a time it was friendly and happy go lucky and then it the "gangsta rap" element was introduced and ironically it got the user friendly label of hip hop which I don't use because rap by any other name is still rap.

Honestly I'm guilty of repeating lyrics from the Underground, Biggie, and a host of other--not the vile parts but I love music and they do sample some great songs. I don't care for Jay-Z but I do love the way his production team used that theme from "Shaft in Africa" on one of his songs, I love the sound of the "Encore/Numb" Linkin Park hybrid, and I do not care for Kanye West but Dwele has an awesome hook on "Flashing Lights." But I'm no impressionable youth.

Tipper Gore's push for the PA labels was helpful, even though the labels are sometimes missing on cds that should be labeled such as Janet Jackson's "Velvet Rope."

I am not even sure that I believe that rap is the problem since it cannot be any more hypnotic than all that rock music that was supposed to cause kids to fall prey to sex and drugs.

I think the biggest problem is teaching kids that they will never amount to anything because of who they are. If you're taught at a young age that you're less than and will never be any more than that then why would you even try? And it's not just about society saying these things, it's about all those well intentioned people who see themselves as trying to spare children disappointment by teaching them that the man hates them--that can't end well. And that's probably just the tip of the iceberg for a kid living in the worst part of the city, surrounded by gang violence, in a broken home.

But as it pertains to this discussion, that destructive element is what Trayvon and millions of kids like him are emulating, and that is the source of the problem. And for the record, I feel the same way about punk and heavy metal, which are almost exclusively white. But in that video Dr. Tucker said that even during SLAVERY they sang songs of hope, and faith, and of freedom. Things are certainly more hopeful for the youth of today than they were in the early 1800's. Basically she was saying people need to stop making excuses for themselves, and break the cycle of violence, because as you said, Trayvon was much more likley to be killed by his own people, statistically. And that is sad. United people stand, divided they fall, and glorifying the killing of each other does no good for anyone. Sure there are rappers out there that don't do that type of thing, but are they at the top of the charts? Do they have huge visbility? Do they even make up 25% of the totality of rap music released? That answer would be no. It's basically throwing a bone to america to say "Look, we're not ALL bad" when in truth there is 2 good apples and 100 rotten ones in the barrel.

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This tragedy is a wake call to get rid of the "stand the ground" law and tighten gun control laws, not to let white people justify stereotyping young black men because of their skin color and how they dress.

Oh, and that comment about rap and hip hop is racist bullshit generalization.

Why would it be a racist generaliztion, because I CERTAINLY put Kid Rock and Eminem in that category as well, Eminem is one of the wrost offenders of them all.

In no way should Zimmerman's actions be condoned, but I believe that he could very well have killed a white boy who wore the attire and behaved as Martin did.

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But as it pertains to this discussion, that destructive element is what Trayvon and millions of kids like him are emulating, and that is the source of the problem. And for the record, I feel the same way about punk and heavy metal, which are almost exclusively white. But in that video Dr. Tucker said that even during SLAVERY they sang songs of hope, and faith, and of freedom. Things are certainly more hopeful for the youth of today than they were in the early 1800's. Basically she was saying people need to stop making excuses for themselves, and break the cycle of violence, because as you said, Trayvon was much more likley to be killed by his own people, statistically. And that is sad. United people stand, divided they fall, and glorifying the killing of each other does no good for anyone. Sure there are rappers out there that don't do that type of thing, but are they at the top of the charts? Do they have huge visbility? Do they even make up 25% of the totality of rap music released? That answer would be no. It's basically throwing a bone to america to say "Look, we're not ALL bad" when in truth there is 2 good apples and 100 rotten ones in the barrel.

I'm not going to address this though I do think it's worth some discussion.

Instead, I'll say that we disagree on what led to Trayvon Martin's death.

Even though I can entertain the possibility that George Zimmerman may have been truthful in saying that he was on his way back to the car when Trayvon Martin attacked him or some variation of that, which would give Trayvon Martin some portion of the blame, if true, it's still George Zimmerman's fault.

I can't make George Zimmerman's perception of Trayvon Martin's attire a factor. There's no amount of logic that leads me to believe that seeing someone he perceived to be a thug, based on his clothing, would result in leaving the safety of a car to pursue this possible criminal. Trayvon Martin posed no imminent threat and a hoodie and sagging pants aren't signs of an imminent threat.

I don't want anyone to be able to go to court and claim that "gang" attire caused them to pursue someone who posed no threat other than his mind telling him clothing was a sign of a threat that excuses killing. That's almost like Twinkies sending someone into a murderous rage or apparently causing Halle Berry to hit someone and flee.

George Zimmernman has to take responsibility for the rash decision he made and society doesn't need to create excuses for him.

Why even put people on trial when hoodies and sagging pants are involved?....let all the killers plead innocent on the basis that evil rap music led them to kill others and the evil rap music led the kids they killed to dress like gang members which led to their deaths...just put evil rap on trial then. That's the only conclusion I can draw otherwise I'm just tired and make no sense.

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In no way should Zimmerman's actions be condoned, but I believe that he could very well have killed a white boy who wore the attire and behaved as Martin did.

I agree... I think he was a loose cannon looking for an excuse to be a hero no matter who the target happened to be.

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But as it pertains to this discussion, that destructive element is what Trayvon and millions of kids like him are emulating, and that is the source of the problem. And for the record, I feel the same way about punk and heavy metal, which are almost exclusively white.

Except in America, white is not a problem or a racial issue and black is. If punk rockers went crazy and rioted they would be described as punk rockers, youth, by class or location and their reasons for rioting would be be described as social. If "rap" kids rioted they would be described as black and the reason would be because they're black since they aren't actual individuals.

But in that video Dr. Tucker said that even during SLAVERY they sang songs of hope, and faith, and of freedom. Things are certainly more hopeful for the youth of today than they were in the early 1800's. Basically she was saying people need to stop making excuses for themselves, and break the cycle of violence, because as you said, Trayvon was much more likley to be killed by his own people, statistically. And that is sad. United people stand, divided they fall, and glorifying the killing of each other does no good for anyone.

This kind of implies that black youth are a rather violent bunch who listen to rap then go out and commit crimes. So were all the black youth well behaved before rap music came along and poisoned the whole lot? It seems contradictory to advocate personal responsibility while seeking to censor or get rid of rap music.

Racism in America has at least a couple of layers: society and self-infliction (which is black people telling other black people what to do). Allow people to be individuals and stop boxing them in because they're black. It's not even just seen as inferior but it's some sort of handicap as well. Trying to keep shoe companies from selling expensive sneakers for fear that black consumers will buy the shoes instead of feeding their kids, etc,, is a crippling form of coddling that includes trying to eliminate offensive rap lyrics for fear that people will act on them. Hide the rappers so kids won't dress like them.

Teach kids how to respect themselves and others because there is only so much shielding that can work. Rappers can spew misogynistic lyrics but why do the young girls and women have to believe they're true? If they're taught to understand the difference then they can choose for themselves to B or not B.

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No, he didn't need to be "nice", he simply needed to be civil and calm. When someone comes up to you and looks to be unhinged the last thing you do is get all confrontational and throw gasoline on the fire. It's just a lack of common sense, that's all.

And yes, he was dressed like a criminal. Just because respectable people wear the attire, doesn't change what it is. I can go out in a chiffon gown and just because I'm wearing it, that doesn't make it man's clothing. And the jumping of the fence was his BIGGEST mistake. the fence is there for a reason, because the people who live inside are scared and paranoid. So if your appearance makes people nervous, it makes sense not to tempt fate and do things that will make people suspicious. Because when someone jumps a fence, that says to anyone watching that they don't HAVE the gate code, therefore they are not SUPPOSED to be there. So yes, Zimmerman TOTALLY did the wrong thing, and is an unhstable loose cannon (and should go to jail for manslaughter). But Trayvon is also dumb as a box of rocks for lighting that cannon's fuse.

I live in Orlando and you're completely misinformed. First of all, many of the gates here don't take codes, just a card that lets you have access into the gate. If that was the way the gate was set up, then Trayvon probably did not have the card. Even if it's a code and he doesn't have it, so what?

A hoodie isn't criminal attire. At all. How many people wear sweatshirts with hoods on them in the winter or when it's cold outside? TONS! Criminal attire would be all black and a ski mask, not a teenager dressed like a teenager.

None of this would have happened had Zimmerman just called 911 and gone home. Period. Nobody should be following anyone late at night with a gun unless you're a cop tracking a criminal.

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Martin didn't jump a fence, that's not stated in any facts that I've seen. Zimmerman's account never stated that Martin jumped a fence, when he did a re-enactment on video, that never was stated, was not mentioned on the 911 call and isn't in the police report.

That's what I thought- as I said, I live in Orlando and followed the case closely and never once did I hear any mention from Zimmerman or anyone else about Trayvon jumping a fence. He saw him walking on the street, dressed in his attire, and judged him to be a criminal. Trayvon did nothing to encourage his behavior.

The reason why you haven't heard about the jeans is because news outlets were afraid to report it, because they knew they'd be call racist if they did. Rap and hip hop cultrue is a cancer that is eating away at the black community, much in the same way meth is in small town white america. My main point is this tragedy needs to be a wake up call.

Wow, you have to be kidding me- those pants aren't baggy or sagging really and he in no way is dressed like a criminal in that video.

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Robert Zimmerman, Jr., brother of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman, continued his everything-including-the-racist-kitchen-sink PR offensive on behalf of his brother by repeatedly tweeting a photo comparison of the teenager his brother shot, and De’Marquise Elkins, the 17 year-old who has been detained in the murder of a Georgia infant. Both pictures feature the young men flipping the middle finger at the camera, with the caption “A picture speaks a thousand words…Any questions?”
Zimmerman has, thus far, tweeted the comparison to the Anthony half of Opie and Anthony, Michael Moore, the NAACP, and a Breitbart News editor, as well as the NRA. If Zimmerman’s point is that anyone who uses that gesture is a murderer, then they’re going to have to arrest the entire Garden State Parkway. If you suspect that wasn’t his point, you might be right.
Earlier in the day, in case anyone did miss the point, Zimmerman tweeted several other revealing comparisons between his brother’s case and the slaying of 13-month-old Antonio Santiago, including one that might be particularly unhelpful. In one, Zimmerman promotes his brother’s version of events:

Teen to West: “Do you want me to shoot your baby?” #TrayvonMartin to #GeorgeZimmerman : You’re gonna die tonight Motherf**ker”

And in another, he cuts to the proverbial chase:

Lib media shld ask if what these2 black teens did 2 a woman&baby is the reason ppl think blacks mightB risky


Ah, there it is. The only thing Trayvon Martin and De’Marquise Elkins have in common is that they are black teenagers who have middle fingers. That’s where it ends, but the differences between the two are many. Trayvon Martin isn’t accused of any crime, while Elkins is accused of murder. Elkins is alive, and will have an opportunity to defend himself. Trayvon Martin is dead, and can’t defend himself against the despicable comparison of himself to an alleged baby-murderer. Even if every word that George Zimmerman says is true, Trayvon Martin was still only guilty of beating a man who was stalking him with a gun.

Whatever you think of George Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence, the linchpin of his brother’s media offensive is that George wasn’t racist, and didn’t have any particular antipathy toward black teenagers. Pimping this racist, dimwitted comparison is a direct repudiation of that notion. Maybe the idea is for Robert to be
so racist
that his brother seems reasonable by comparison?

The irony is that even Trayvon Martin’s
most vocal advocates
have said, all along, that George Zimmerman deserves his day in court, and his presumption of innocence. In advancing this sick comparison, Robert Zimmerman is denying Trayvon Martin the latter, after his brother denied Trayvon the former, and convicting Trayvon of something he was never even accused of. De’Marquise Elkins has a lot more in common with George Zimmerman than he does with Trayvon Martin; they both allegedly killed someone’s child with a gun, and they both will stand trial for those acts. If that comparison offends Robert Zimmerman, Jr., then maybe he can understand why being black and having a middle finger doesn’t make you a baby-killer, and why he should maybe stop making that comparison.

Update:
More Robert Zimmerman, Jr. on the “blacks.”
His desperation is misplaced; he’s already got the Daily Caller/Breitbart crowd:

zimthumb.jpg

I need for this entire family to die in a house fire. I give no f-cks and mean every word.

This racist [&#33;@#&#036;%^&amp;*] from these two turds began with Mama and Daddy. F-ck all of them. When is this damn trial going to start?

The more they talk,the stupider they reveal themselves to be. I LOVE how this sense of superiority leads them to open their yaps and keep reinforcing that George is a racist and comes from a family of racists. They cannot get it through their heads that the only Whites supporting them are the hardcore racists who consider them mestizos but support killing Blacks,so they ignore that fact. The rest were quick to disclaim his "Hispanic" ass and denounce his actions.

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As tragic as it is I firmly believe that this jury will let George Zimmerman walk off scott free.....

The family will be lucky if they even get manslaughter. The prosecution did a horrible job overall and the family themselves contradicted themselves on whether or not it was Trayvon screaming on that call. Common sense would seem to suggest that Zimmerman was guilty and had bad motives that night.

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As tragic as it is I firmly believe that this jury will let George Zimmerman walk off scott free.....

Perhaps but even if they do, his life is over. If he gets off Trayvon's family will sue him and win. He'll end up working a crappy job and spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

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