Administrator Toups Posted August 28, 2011 Administrator Share Posted August 28, 2011 Masterpiece? What are you talking about, Max? I guess you haven't been reading the the threads. While some of us are enjoying the show, we also have been criticizing the it. To me, you sound like a bitter P&G fan who is still upset that your soaps weren't saved, while AMC/OLTL were saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skiman12082004 Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Max Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 Toups, I am bitter about my beloved P&G soaps not being saved. So long as I am willing to admit this, I don't see what is so wrong about feeling this way, as bitterness is a perfectly normal human emotion. And just because I am bitter, it does not mean any of my opinions are automatically wrong. Toups, I wonder if we are reading the same board, because I have seen many comments that essentially state how wonderful OLTL has become under RC and FV. (Although, interestingly these same folks always give zero credit to Brian Frons for anything that goes right with OLTL.) Do you mean to deny that there isn't a sizable segment of posters who don't go on and on about OLTL being "on fire," both creatively and in the ratings? Yes, I'm biased, as are the ABC soap fans here (although I've seen very few of them admit to any such bias). Thus, perhaps my bias is the reason why I am not drinking the kool-aid that makes one belive that (1) the PP deal is the greatest thing that has happened to the soap genre in a long time and (2) convinced that the PP deal is likely to be a smashing success. Shamefully, if the P&G soaps got the Prospect Park treatment, I too would probably believe in the same fantasies. Although, if one is intellectually honest, I'd bet anything that a portion of the ABC soap viewing audience (though certainly not all) would be extremely bitter if the P&G soaps were saved while the ABC soaps bit the dust. In your defense Toups, I was always very impressed on how you got over Passions' demise so quickly, and acted like a grown-up. (I'm sorry that I never before praised you for that.) Your behavior was certainly in stark contrast to the kicking, screaming, and bitterness exhibited by many ABC soap fans, as well as myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aMLCproduction Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 DanYella, who ever came up with that stand up and take a bow. Come on who was it? That is so great and so fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 WOw Max, we actually usually agree, but I think you've been blind to the number of ABC fans who are VERY negative about the PP deal's chance of success (just read the thread--I myself am mixed), and a number of us are quite mixed about OLTL right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skiman12082004 Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 For the record I am a soap fan. I will follow the soap(s) I think is the best whether it be ABC, NBC or CBS. I started off an NBC soap fan and have migrated to the other networks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Max Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 Eric, looking back, it was an exaggeration on my part to suspect that so many ABC soap fans feel that the PP venture is guaranteed to be a smashing success. (I came to feel that way because it appears that some people--though certainly not all--think the ABC soaps will actually have a good chance of success merely because Frons won't be involved.) I sincerely apologize to you and any other like minded people. When it comes to how I view myself, I do recognize that I'm and obnoxious a$$hole who often gets on other peoples' nerves because I say (and believe in) things that are unpopular. My only good qualities are (1) that I'm willing to admit my biases and (2) that I am willing to concede to others when I am wrong. Sadly, there just aren't too many other people who share those two traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TeamEric Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 JMO, viewers were turning in to learn which one was really Todd. That was a really good tease they had going there but sadly the execution of the reveal was so botched, the show lost viewers the last 2 weeks. OLTL has twin identities. Under Nixon and Gottlieb/Malone, the show was rooted in reality and told socially relevant stories. But under Raush, Tomlin and now RC, there are years where the show is campy and has the wildest plots in daytime. Eterna and time travel periods were crazy times for OLTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 The key is to ground insane stories in people viewers care about. If stories like the Old West or Viki's spaceship adventure worked, it was based on people caring about Viki and Clint. Something like 1968 didn't work for me because I didn't give a rat's a$$ about Rex or Gigi...which has basically been the problem I had with most of the show's stories in the last few years, lack of investment in the characters the show loves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TeamEric Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 RC's biggest failing is trying to make fun of serious issues. He turned the serious mayoral fight over gay marriage into a total parody. Dorian faking being a lesbian felt like a SPOOF I'd have seen on the old tv show, SOAP. When RC plays it straight serious, he can deliver some very touching scenes, Todd taking Téa to chemo, Viki at Clnt's bedside recalling her own heart transplant and the father/sons day at the diner for some other examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Max Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 This is a great observation. My assumption that OLTL has always been a show based in reality was just completely ignorant on my part. Truth be told, I believe that "NYC soap snobbery" also had a lot to do with it: If GH, DOOL, SuBe, PC, or Passions had done these storylines, it would have just reinforeced my belief that those shows are typical "California soap garbage." But because OLTL is filmed in NYC, I still assumed that it is a show grounded in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 I agree--and that's why I agree with Carl (I think) who said he has an issue with tone. I love soaps that mix the light hearted with the drama--and Agnes Nixon was criticized by the contemporary soap press for doing just that with OLTL and especially AMC in the 60s and 70s. But Ron sometimes (often?) doesn't seem to know what kind of stories and chareacters work that way and which come off as distateful or just "huh?" Nothing has made me as uncomfortable as Higley's child pornography story, particularly how it was told--but things have come close I admit (Mitch gleefully almost raping Jess--and the way they dwell on reactions, like showing Jess' screams--or even recently showing us twice Irene carving up Todd when he didn't even need that stupid scar, but that may be FV's fault and not RCs). And yes, I think, for example, it's way too soon to try to do an unfortunately still fairly groundbreaking for soaps gay storyline and mix it up with such a camp gay storyline--it kills the drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 Agree. It's smart to keep the characters' emotions at the forefront and as clear as possible, too. When the story becomes all about the gimmick, and we don't understand why the characters are in that situation, you've lost the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 Frankly, I think we are giving RC too much credit for moments like those. Although they might have been part of his story "thrusts" for his writing staff, his breakdown and dialogue writers were/are likely more responsible for actually writing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Khan Posted August 28, 2011 Members Share Posted August 28, 2011 I don't think so. I think you can mix up the two, but the tone(s) have to be set from the beginning. Kish's story moved along in a more-or-less serious fashion. People only started having trouble with it once it suddenly became something out of one Joe Keenan's farcical novels, with Dorian passing herself off as lesbian during Llanview's Million Gay Man March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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