1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Why wouldn't they?

Didn't Nick and Neil also have a thing against Brad because of his treatment of Olivia, Victoria, and Nikki?

I don't recall how Danny felt about Brad, but I think Michael Baldwin didn't like him either.

6 hours ago, j swift said:

Didn't Nick and Neil also have a thing against Brad because of his treatment of Olivia, Victoria, and Nikki?

I don't recall how Danny felt about Brad, but I think Michael Baldwin didn't like him either.

Victor like Brad initially. Until he showed interest in Nikki

Jack hated him on site

Danny liked Brad. He even helped him when Brad first started at Jabot and when Brad asked Danny to stop pursuing Traci because they were to be married, Danny stepped aside (though he had no chance anyway). By the time Brad married Traci I don't think Brad and Danny had anything to do with each other. I don't even think Danny visited his former wife in the hospital when she lost Brad's baby (did he???)

Once Brad inherited everything from Cassandra, we saw the real Brad. I think this is when more people in GC started hating him, because he didn't need anyone anymore, so he could be the man he always wanted to be. The man Jill saw in 1985 and Lauren in 1987. Jack was right about him to a certain extent (not completely) Brad was a player. I think he loved Traci, but I don't think he was deeply in love with her. This is why I loved Bell's writing, Brad was never just a good guy or bad guy. 

Edited January 25, 20223 yr by will81

3 hours ago, will81 said:

the real Brad. I think this is when more people in GC started hating him, because he didn't need anyone anymore, so he could be the man he always wanted to be.

I tend to pinpoint Victor's dislike of Brad to the moment when Brad tried to ally with Jack to takeover Newman Enterprises (after his return from Italy).

There are interesting parallels between Brad Carlton and Brad Elliott, both changed their names, both hid their pasts, and both were morally questionable.

Edited January 25, 20223 yr by j swift

5 hours ago, j swift said:

I tend to pinpoint Victor's dislike of Brad to the moment when Brad tried to ally with Jack to takeover Newman Enterprises (after his return from Italy).

There are interesting parallels between Brad Carlton and Brad Elliott, both changed their names, both hid their pasts, and both were morally questionable.

It does seem Bell used the blue prints of some of his 70's characters for later ones. Though I never knew Brad Elliot changed his name. 

I think Ashley was a mix of Lorie and Leslie. There is a not so subtle scene transition when Leslie leaves town in Dec 82. She walks out the door, camera goes to Stu then pans to a rose and then dissolves to Ashley, normally when a character like Leslie leaves you go to end credits. Then we have Ash meeting Lorie at Victor and Nikki's wedding, which there was no need for and had a very symbolic passing of the torch feel to it. 

I'd say some of Traci's weight issues and insecurities make me think of Joann Curtis and Peggy Brooks

8 hours ago, j swift said:

There are interesting parallels between Brad Carlton and Brad Elliott, both changed their names, both hid their pasts, and both were morally questionable.

Also both were part of the classic soap element sisters fighting over a guy.

Brad E. was drawn to Leslie but pursued by Lorie. Brad C. married both Traci and Ashley.

3 hours ago, will81 said:

It does seem Bell used the blue prints of some of his 70's characters for later ones. Though I never knew Brad Elliot changed his name. 

I think Ashley was a mix of Lorie and Leslie. There is a not so subtle scene transition when Leslie leaves town in Dec 82. She walks out the door, camera goes to Stu then pans to a rose and then dissolves to Ashley, normally when a character like Leslie leaves you go to end credits. Then we have Ash meeting Lorie at Victor and Nikki's wedding, which there was no need for and had a very symbolic passing of the torch feel to it. 

I'd say some of Traci's weight issues and insecurities make me think of Joann Curtis and Peggy Brooks

Bill Bell reused Lorie's parentage and Leslie's emotional breakdown for Ashley, and Peggy's involvement with her college professor for Traci.

On 1/24/2022 at 3:25 AM, ironlion said:

Victor who likes needy women

Let's break down Victor's love interests from 1980-1999, which ones would you classify as needy?

The wives - Julia, Nikki, Leanna (not legal), Ashley, Hope, Diane

The flings - Cassandra, Jill, Ramona

The one that got away - Lorie

The one that might have been but never was - Christine (yeah, I said it)

10 hours ago, kalbir said:

Also both were part of the classic soap element sisters fighting over a guy.

Brad E. was drawn to Leslie but pursued by Lorie. Brad C. married both Traci and Ashley.

Bill Bell reused Lorie's parentage and Leslie's emotional breakdown for Ashley, and Peggy's involvement with her college professor for Traci.

Let's break down Victor's love interests from 1980-1999, which ones would you classify as needy?

The wives - Julia, Nikki, Leanna (not legal), Ashley, Hope, Diane

The flings - Cassandra, Jill, Ramona

The one that got away - Lorie

The one that might have been but never was - Christine (yeah, I said it)

I'm  debating which word with better describe Victor's type. Needy women or women he can somewhat dominate and control?

Nikki always said she needed her own career and life so she wasn't dependent on Victor to "fulfill" her.

Ashley was very vulnerable with Vic in the 80s, and during her mental episode in 04 she would only respond to Victor.

Diane came off as desperate after the divorce with the sperm fiasco (but to be fair he wasn't interested in Diane at that point).

Cassandra had a damsel in distress period when she was dependant on Adrain during the galsighting plot, then needed rescuing following his murder plot

I think he kind of saw Hope as a damsel in distress as he saved her from the rapist and helped her around the farm given her blindness. But she proved independent and sting minded, having the authority to walk away from Victor and never come back.

Jill was more independent under Dickson but got more miserable as Walton took over. Needy is a so/so word for her. 

The Lorie, Leanna, and Julia periods I'm not to familiar with. Christine of course is the exception to the trend. 

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by ironlion

I wouldn't call Julia Newman "needy".  More like "sheltered".  In her first stint (1980-1981), the Little Woman couldn't have a job.  The Little Woman had to stay home.  The Little Woman had to stand by her man.  She'd married Victor when she was a teenager, and he tended to dominate her, which led to her wanting a job at Jabot and eventually sleeping with Michael Scott.  

She left town for a year or two.  Once she returned, she was even more confident and assertive.  She often rolled her eyes when Victor patronized women.  She was friendly and open with Victor, but she wasn't the sheltered little sheep he wanted her to be.  

I've always seen Victor as someone who was attracted to women who presented a challenge to him.  The stronger the woman, the more determined he was to break her.  That's why it remains a big deal how Lorie was able to get Prentiss Industries back for Lance from Victor; because she was (and is) the only woman who could beat Victor at his own game.

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by Khan

2 hours ago, ironlion said:

Nikki always said she needed her own career and life so she wasn't dependent on Victor to "fulfill" her.

Huh??

Nikki was more than happy to be Mrs Victor Newman and sit around the ranch for years wallowing in her own (usually self induced) emotional crises. She showed no interest in working beyond attending charity lunches.

Nikki the career gal was a late in life re-invention rather like Katherine the kick ass businesswoman.

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by Paul Raven

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Huh??

Nikki was more than happy to be Mrs Victor Newman and sit around the ranch for years wallowing in her own (usually self induced) emotional crises. She showed no interest in working beyond attending charity lunches.

Nikki the career gal was a late in life re-invention rather like Katherine the kick ass businesswoman.

Yes, and Lorie Brooks was another re-write.  When she reappeared as Mrs. Max Hollister circa 2001, she was creaming her panties for Victor -- would take him under any circumstances -- although as someone pointed out above, she'd beaten him at his own game in 1982.   Kay Alden felt that needed to be rectified by having her grovel for Victor.

It was ridiculous. 

Just like the absurdity of "Career Gal Nikki" and "Madame CEO Kay Chancellor".    

33 minutes ago, Broderick said:

Yes, and Lorie Brooks was another re-write.  When she reappeared as Mrs. Max Hollister circa 2001, she was creaming her panties for Victor -- would take him under any circumstances -- although as someone pointed out above, she'd beaten him at his own game in 1982.   Kay Alden felt that needed to be rectified by having her grovel for Victor.

It was ridiculous. 

Just like the absurdity of "Career Gal Nikki" and "Madame CEO Kay Chancellor".    

Yep late 2002 into early/mid 2003 so many decisions being made that destroyed well established Bill Bell characters. Hated it. 

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Huh??

Nikki was more than happy to be Mrs Victor Newman and sit around the ranch for years wallowing in her own (usually self induced) emotional crises. She showed no interest in working beyond attending charity lunches.

Nikki the career gal was a late in life re-invention rather like Katherine the kick ass businesswoman.

Agree.  IMO, that's why Victor and Nikki's relationship has always been an on-again, off-again kind of thing.  For Victor, the initial challenge was remaking Nikki, a stripper from the wrong side of the tracks, into a "lady."  Once that was accomplished, he got bored.

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by Khan

30 minutes ago, Khan said:

Agree.  IMO, that's why Victor and Nikki's relationship has always been an on-again, off-again kind of thing.  For Victor, the initial challenge was remaking Nikki, a stripper from the wrong side of the tracks, into a "lady."  Once that was accomplished, he got bored.

Khan, you speak the truth.

He's only stuck with Nikki now because he finally realized that any women under 50 (his preferred age range) wouldn't touch him with a bargepole.

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Huh??

Nikki was more than happy to be Mrs Victor Newman and sit around the ranch for years wallowing in her own (usually self induced) emotional crises. She showed no interest in working beyond attending charity lunches.

Nikki the career gal was a late in life re-invention rather like Katherine the kick ass businesswoman.

2000 onwards Nikki is what I'm referring to. By that time Nikki realized too much of her life was wrapped around being a housewife particularly being with Victor. There was a scene I'm trying to find in which she expility told Victor she was tired of "waiting on him to walk through that door and fulfill her". Similar sentiments in this scene:

I liked the attempt at making Nikki a career woman. 2009 in particular was a very independent time for the charachter, until they screwed it up by having her leave Paul to pine after Victor again. 

10 hours ago, Broderick said:

I wouldn't call Julia Newman "needy".  More like "sheltered".  In her first stint (1980-1981), the Little Woman couldn't have a job.  The Little Woman had to stay home. 

10 hours ago, Khan said:

I've always seen Victor as someone who was attracted to women who presented a challenge to him.  The stronger the woman, the more determined he was to break her.  

Yes! Well said. This is exactly what I'm trying to get at. 

Edited January 26, 20223 yr by ironlion

6 hours ago, Khan said:

Agree.  IMO, that's why Victor and Nikki's relationship has always been an on-again, off-again kind of thing.  For Victor, the initial challenge was remaking Nikki, a stripper from the wrong side of the tracks, into a "lady."  Once that was accomplished, he got bored.

Victor loves Nikki, but he doesn't respect her. IMO in his heart he considers her a child. He had respect for Lorie, Ashley, Hope, and Sabrina.