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2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Victor and Sharon were never shown in bed together. There was one scene where they held hands and walked upstairs together, so the bedroom activities were implied.

 

With a genre known for claiming that a death didn't happen if there was no body (and sometimes even with one), I don't know how anyone can assume anything.

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1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

With a genre known for claiming that a death didn't happen if there was no body (and sometimes even with one), I don't know how anyone can assume anything.


The writers at the time were implying it but it is also clear to me either fan reaction and/or the actors' dislike of the storyline (and we know EB wouldn't have been shy about letting them know) is why it was merely implied rather than show like it usually would
Thankfully because it was never shown it gave an easy opening for later writers to make it explicit it was never consummated which was a retcon but an easily acceptable one.
We can never be sure but we have to go by what they are showing us and they were showing us a married couple lovingly hand-holdingly climbing up to the bedroom. I mean, sex is what that meant.

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7 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

With a genre known for claiming that a death didn't happen if there was no body (and sometimes even with one), I don't know how anyone can assume anything.

I get this was a general soap trope, but when did it become a Y&R thing? I was dipping in and out during the early 2000's and stopped watching completely in 2006,  and I don't remember a character that was legitimately thought dead by the audience who came back during that period. 

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6 minutes ago, will81 said:

I get this was a general soap trope, but when did it become a Y&R thing? I was dipping in and out during the early 2000's and stopped watching completely in 2006,  and I don't remember a character that was legitimately thought dead by the audience who came back during that period. 

 

I was talking about soaps, in general.

Dark Shadows was before my time but many people claim that to be the first storyline of that kind. There seemed to be quite a few in the 80s and 90s. It probably became a trope sometime around then. I wasn't speaking specifically about Y&R, which is why I said genre, but speaking of Y&R, wasn't Adam declared dead at least once? 

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Posted (edited)

Back from the dead was a trope that went as far back as radio soaps but it was mainly used when a presumed dead character eg someone's first wife turned up alive after all - not a character we had seen(or heard) who died on air/screen.

Previous to the 80's it was used from time to time but off hand I can't think of an instance where it was used to bring back a popular actor.

But when the 80's soap craze hit and certain actors became popular and decided to leave soaps, the writers began hedging their bets by killing them off but happily resurrecting them if they decided to return.

Days was probably the biggest culprit- Roman, Marlena, Steve, Hope.

 

As far as Y&R is concerned, Bill Bell never used it, but like so many other tired gimmicks - doubles, retcons etc once Bill was gone all bets were off.

So Phillip and Cane both came back along with Adam -anyone else?

Edited by Paul Raven
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39 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I was talking about soaps, in general.

Dark Shadows was before my time but many people claim that to be the first storyline of that kind. There seemed to be quite a few in the 80s and 90s. It probably became a trope sometime around then. I wasn't speaking specifically about Y&R, which is why I said genre, but speaking of Y&R, wasn't Adam declared dead at least once? 

Oh yeah I get you were talking generally, I just thought maybe it had become more a thing on Y&R as well in the last 15 years. Not sure about Adam as I only remember him as a baby.

 

2 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Back from the dead was a trope that went as far back as radio soaps but it was mainly used when a presumed dead character eg someone's first wife turned up alive after all - not a character we had seen(or heard) who died on air/screen.

Previous to the 80's it was used from time to time but off hand I can't think of an instance where it was used to bring back a popular actor.

But when the 80's soap craze hit and certain actors became popular and decided to leave soaps, the writers began hedging their bets by killing them off but happily resurrecting them if they decided to return.

Days was probably the biggest culprit- Roman, Marlena, Steve, Hope.

Yeah it was definitely around from the beginning. I was also shocked that evil twin stories were thought to be a tired trope as early as the late 60's. So I guess that one was around pretty early on too. DOOL is definitely the biggest culprit, haha. 

 

I wonder if Bobby Ewing's return on Dallas in 86 gave them more confidence to start doing it regularly on daytime soaps, or do you think it was before this that it became more popular. Though I think Stefano had already died and come back by this point hadn't he?

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Phillip definitely "came back from the Dead" in the usual definition.
But I am pretty sure nobody in the audience believed Adam was really dead: he was declared dead on the show in a way that was transparent he'd back.
That's the distinction I personally draw between a character being presumed dead on the show (whether we are explicitly told they are alive like whenever Victor "dies" or the current Sonny story on GH, or whether it is left so open-ended that it is pretty obvious they are not like with Adam) versus a character being dead - body shown and show leaving no ambiguity in the storytelling and then later returning them in an extremely far-fetched scenario when they or the leaving performer change their mind. The latter is the trope people like to mock.

I don't recall Y&R ever doing that whereas most other soaps have plenty of cases of people we SAW THE DEAD BODY OF who then turned out alive later.

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12 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

 

I don't recall Y&R ever doing that whereas most other soaps have plenty of cases of people we SAW THE DEAD BODY OF who then turned out alive later.

 

As someone else mentioned upthread, Phillip Chancellor (Thom Bierdz) was definitely supposed to be dead in a car crash (similar to his father before him) but was brought back with that ridiculous storyline, involving Cane years ago. FWIW, I highly doubt Bill Bell Sr. would have brought the character back had he still been around to write the show. I believe Phillip was likely supposed to stay dead, although one can never say never--plenty of headwriters end up breaking their own rules.

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Posted (edited)

I believe Malcolm was actually Y&R’s first actual real back from the dead story back in 2004. I mean Y&R had a history of characters pretending to be dead ie Katherine, Paul, Sheila, Victor but we the audience knew they were alive. However Malcolm was presumed dead for two years before his 2004 return. It should be noted that in 2004 Y&R rode the same wave of back from the dead stories plaguing daytime at the time (hello Days and ATWT!).

 

Since then we’ve had Phillip, Skye, Adam, JT, and Chloe all fake their demises only to pop up alive again. However of the above only Phillip and Skye were the ones we figured would stay dead forever. Adam’s 2010 and 2014 deaths we knew he was still alive, and his 2016 death was also left very ambiguous no matter how much SSM tried to make it seem permanent. 

On 6/2/2021 at 5:53 PM, Forever8 said:

Promo from 1994 from Bold Restless involving the story PB wants you to forget.

 

 

 


And if Keemo ever came back he’d be played by someone like Matt Cedeño or of all things Billy Miller lol. 
 

On a side note thanks for sharing. It’s weird Paul & Christine are even the highlight of the promo but I suppose they were in a vacuum between April’s departure and Danny’s return. 

Edited by soapfan770
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24 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

On a side note thanks for sharing. It’s weird Paul & Christine are even the highlight of the promo but I suppose they were in a vacuum between April’s departure and Danny’s return. 


Of all the ways the Keemo story was an insult to Terry Lester's version of Jack, making the entire first section of this Jack story about Cricket is one of the most on the nose if you know what I mean.
 

 

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11 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:


Of all the ways the Keemo story was an insult to Terry Lester's version of Jack, making the entire first section of this Jack story about Cricket is one of the most on the nose if you know what I mean.
 

 


Oddly it may have been one of her last Abbott related stories too. I suppose it made some since at the time it hadn’t been that long she had been a one time step-child of John’s but the following year 1995 was such a transitional year for the character between Phyllis and finally meeting Victor. 

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On 5/31/2021 at 9:07 PM, FrenchBug82 said:


What was the reaction back to Mari Jo Mason as a character? 


At the time personally I remember she was pretty interesting but the Blade/Rick story turned into a confusing mess. Also Abbott family drama was definitely the show’s “D-plot” behind the Newman’s, Christine/Phyllis, and Winters/Hastings storylines at the time. 
 

In retrospect I definitely have to give Diana Barton great credit for making Mari Jo work as the show’s femme fatale. Her arrival is wonderful with her being a spider and spinning her web as she works her way into the Abbott family. She deserved so much better. I mean of all the Y&R characters, Luan as a rival? As icy and calculating as she could be it’s funny her extremely polite and courteous confrontation with Luan in late 1994 should have made both ladies realize Smiling Jack was no good either of them. The bad casting of Blade also was a major hindrance. Sure Michael Tylo was a daytime name from his days on GL but really Blade should have been played by someone like Peter Reckell, Robert Newman, or yes even Stephen Nichols to make it sexy and charismatic. 

 

 

Mari Jo going crazy and shooting Victor was well received however it was also criticized for Mari Jo being out of character to let Jill rot in jail for her crime for a silly motive to shoot Victor was also seen as very weak(especially compared to Brad’s). Maybe if Jill had slept with Ryan and Victor blackmailed her it would’ve been better. 
 

 

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Mari Jo was a perfect example of a grey character...neither all good or all bad.  It was a stock character brought to life by Diana Barton.

 

Making her crazy seemed out of character...but I loved that she managed to find the only way to shut up the bug...keeping her drugged.

 

Brenda's Ashley should have been her rival as opposed to Luan.  

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