As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

Whit was such a meanie, I am honestly looking at these old episodes and wondering what Lisa saw in him. I appreciate that the show would build a rivalry between Lisa and Lucinda based on each woman's devotion to preserving her husband's memory but Whit seemed gruff and coarse. He didn't even seem to treat his own children with much regard. People make fun of Earl but at least there was some kind of charm there and chemistry between Earl and Lisa.

Also, does anyone remember how long Brian and Jillian dated? I seem to remember some miscommunication between them and Brian and Barbara, who had a falling out and Barbara scolded Brian for what she believed was leading Jillian on but down the road when Brian and Shannon were dating, it seemed as though Jillian and Barbara didn't like each other one bit. I think Jillian even made a cutting remark to Barbara about being glad that Brian was with Shannon and not Barbara, after Barbara implied that Jillian must be hurt to see Shannon and Brian together. I wonder why and how they became so antagonistic toward each other. There are no episodes to show that trajectory.

I know that's not Jillian in this episode.

[amybrickwallace]

Wasn't the Whit McColl story how Lucinda came to town in the first place?

[Vee]

Which Marland retconned, right? Wasn't it that originally Lucinda blamed Whit for her husband's death, but it was a smokescreen for the Lily secret?

[lilyredd]

Yup. Lucinda came to town to avenge Martin’s suicide which was blamed on Whit bankrupting his company. Marland changed it to he killed himself because of the fact Lily was illegally adopted. 

[DramatistDreamer]

I just don't get the appeal of Whit. I realize that aspects of the backstory that are retconned but since there are so few episodes of Whit and Lisa together as a couple posted on YouTube, I wanted to know whether there was more of an indication that Whit had some other aspects to his personality besides barking at his children and the occasional cutting remark to Lisa. I just don't see any romantic chemistry.

My other question was about Jillian and Brian and Jillian and Barbara's obvious souring relationship and when exactly that happened and why? 

[amybrickwallace]

Thank you.

[j swift]

I think of Whit as a generic daytime version of JR Ewing, (an oft knocked off character at the time) rich guy who brought some sudden 1980s glamour and aspirational wealth for the female vipers in town, but mostly served as a vehicle for stories about his offspring.  Whit and Lisa married after a very short off-screen courtship, so we never saw their budding romance.  Also, he was a total prick to Margo, so he was never meant to be well liked.

My question is based on this quote from soap columnist Jon-Michael Reed's column published two weeks before Eileen Fulton's return and Whit's death.

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While it is entirely possible that the soap press was spoiler-free, so they didn't know about Ms. Fulton's return, I wonder if Whit's death had always been planned, or if it was a sudden choice to hype up the return of the original actress?

This is one of my patented conspiracy theories based on absolutely no facts, yet the speculation does hold water because the secrets that came out of Whit's death did not require him to be murdered in order to be revealed.  In fact, Kirk was in his will regardless of his parentage, and most of his kids left town before the conditions of his will could be enforced. 

On the other hand, he was classically set up as a murder victim from the start because he was a jerk to everyone and collected new murder suspects every month that he appeared in Oakdale.  We don't need YT video to know that at some point in 1984, half of the cast would have a line suggesting that they could kill him for being so evil.  And there was lots of story to be mined from a Lisa/Lucinda feud.

Edited October 8, 2021 by j swift

[DRW50]

I assume Whit was always going to die for the sake of the big murder mystery, but some actors at the time have mentioned how chaotic the behind the scenes atmosphere was at this point. (I think the guy who played Ernie on Edge of Night wrote that - didn't he say he was told he couldn't look at a certain cast member, or something...).

I think the role was miscast. The actor  who played Whit always seemed offputting to me. 

[j swift]

Like most actors of a certain age in the 1980s, Whit (aka Robert Horton) had a hell of a head of hair (or hair system)

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I was interested to read in his wiki that he had played opposite Betsy Von Furstenberg previously in an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents.  As well as the fact that Betsy herself wed for the third and final time to real estate broker John J Reynolds two months after being let go from ATWT.

[DramatistDreamer]

Some of those episodes are, in fact, on YouTube and yes, it is obvious that Whit was "going down" in that very soapy set up. I don't have questions about that. I do have questions about what appeal Whit had to Lisa a woman who clearly had no need of his money or reputation to get on in life. Way before he was being set up, Whit was not nice. His relationship with Brian was on and off, Kirk was convinced that his father never really liked him and even Diana, who supposedly was his favorite, he talked down to, as if he thought her incapable of making a single sensible decision in life. Now, since Kirk was was indeed his biological son, raised in his household, as his son, regardless of his maternity, honestly, I would expect him to be included in the will, despite the sh*tty treatment by Whit. In reality, Whit treated all of his kids somewhat sh*tty. Just based on treatment alone, you'd think that Craig was his heir. He seemed to be the only one Whit liked.

Anybody answered that question about Jillian?  I realize that Brian also dated a Juliet (seriously dated) not long before, which is a bit odd.

[Bill Bauer]

It does seem odd that Lisa would marry a man who seemingly had no redeeming qualities. She was often swept away in romantic emotionalism but she was always too feisty to allow herself to be dominated by an abusive man and Whit seemed very abusive. The only exception to this would be Michael Shea but Lisa was forced into that marriage. Was Betsy von Furstenberg playing Lisa the entire time she was Whit? I could sort of see the Lisa as she was portrayed by von Furstenberg putting up with Whit's crap. 

[TVFAN1144]

I think Victor Newman on Y and R is a similar prototype for the JR character type.  Personally I’ve never seen the fascination for the Victor character 

[j swift]

To be fair, it was entirely within character to be in a relationship with unsavory men who made big promises, but were unappreciative of all of things that Lisa had to offer.  She had guys disappear, she married the mob, and then she believed John Dixon's lies, and finally got caught up with Martin Chedwyn.  So, she was never very good at picking the right kind of guy.

Even though she already had money, Whit brought with him a very nice house, somewhat loyal staff, and a newspaper.  From her time at the bookstore, Lisa displayed a love of reading, and writers.  So, perhaps the thought of a career in print media was appealing?

Edited October 8, 2021 by j swift

[amybrickwallace]

Well, she did once (Bob) but was too selfish then and let him get away.

[Mitch]

Ha..you thought more about this then the writers...I could see Lisa being swept away with a totally unOakdale kind of guy, who was in journalism and knew writers, and I could see Lisa being with a guy who she couldn't d*ck around with..(I ALWAYS wanted Reva to have a rough hewn guy who loved her but did not think she was the Goddess of love and called her on her crap..) and Lisa was not that rich when she married him. She was comfortable, but she ran Penny's bookstore and the created Fashion's with Babs. So I can see Lisa getting caught up in being RICH. I can also see Lisa wanting her own family as opposed to be Hughes adjacent all the time.  However none of this was ever in the writing, she just appeared one day married to Whit. I also think the problem was that the actor had so charisma and no chemistry with Fulton.

The actor was a friend of the Dobsons' and they were really, really into guys being aholes and thinking it was sexy...Steve, Nick and now Whit. I think the goal WAS to have Lisa and Whit have a temptuous relationship and when Fulton was there she did give Whit as good as she got in scenes...but then she got bored, and started playing Lisa as a ditz, and the writers leaned into that. then she left , and BVF was very placid as Lisa..as far as she got when he was attacking her own son or friends was "OH Whitttttt!"  A guy has to have a ton of charm to play a guy like Whit and the actor did not have it.  And yes, Lucinda came on to avenge her husband's suicide and then Marland retro wrote it and what came before didn't make any sense because of it.