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As The World Turns Discussion Thread


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1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

The way Goutman treated a number of the show's talent, on the other hand, was very much within his control and he chose to treat a number of the talent in a very sh*tty manner. The interviews are out there with a Google search.

No need for Google! As I said a few hours ago:

8 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Again: I am speaking more generally than Goutman whose reputation I believe. When there is smoke from enough actors there is fire.

I am just trying to play Devil's Advocate to provide a broader perspective on the way we - and I include myself in that - sometimes approach decisions made by EPs particularly on a failing show 
 

 

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20 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

So tragic what they did to her character.   She should have been the focal point of the show to the end.  AMC was usually associated with Susan Lucci and Erica is a similar prototype of Lisa. Who was the character most associated with ATWT in the end?   Probably Carly who was okay but not part of the show’s legacy.

P&G never, I mean never truly learned how to properly promote their talent. Fulton was daytime's O.G. 'Bad Gal' and should have been promoted as a pioneering character. Lisa was doing what many avid readers of the "Feminine Mystique" book must surely have fantasizing about doing during that period of time (despite the public backlash to the character, especially when she temporarily abandons Oakdale) Meanwhile, you had AMC, OLTL, Y&R, GH all far better at promoting their talent. It's really a shame. Barbara Ryan was one of the most stylish characters in all of daytime "Not a hair outta place" as was often said by various characters of Barbara-- who should've been almost as well known as Erica Kane and yet... no, despite being one of the most consistent characters on CBS daytime. Again, a shame.

Perhaps Holden and Lily were on par with Nick and Sharon. That's all I can think of.

P&G was better at promoting their daytime lineup, but looking back it irks me that they chose to do entire promotions where they'd use stand ins, whose faces were blurred, instead of the actors who portrayed the actual characters, and this was at one of the heights of the show's popularity. So generic. Who does that?

28 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

No need for Google! As I said a few hours ago:

I am just trying to play Devil's Advocate to provide a broader perspective on the way we - and I include myself in that - sometimes approach decisions made by EPs particularly on a failing show 

I was speaking specifically.

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11 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Same with an actor complaining about story. When SB told them he hated they were writing Craig as a cartoon, he was right. But do we want actors' opinions to dictate stories? For every time we agree, how many times has an actor come to producers with a stupid idea? I hear the idea that actors know their characters the best and yet they are actors, not writers and they don't always see the big picture. I can see a writer hearing an actor bitch and moan and go "Thanks for your input but no thanks" without being a monster. There is a pretty fair point to make that ign

don’t know that scott was trying to dictate story — just observing what many fans (myself included) felt. as for actors bring story ideas to writers, it can go either way. actors do know their characters best, and it behooves headwriters to at least listen to actors’ thoughts, especially when it comes to character and story continuity. 

‘world turns actors used to complain that they brought doug marland a story idea for their characters, he would use it, but for another character — something i can confirm from first hand experience when a story i suggested for margo and tom went to ellie and kirk. 

8 hours ago, Vee said:

I know I'm not the only one who got a very specific vibe from the way Martha Byrne tiptoed around talking about Goutman last year on the various ATWT reunions.

you are not. i noticed it, as have a few people who mentioned it to me. 

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3 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

actors do know their characters best, and it behooves headwriters to at least listen to actors’ thoughts, especially when it comes to character and story continuity. 

By the same token, actors interest can be self serving- as long as they are front burner, they are happy.

I've seen many an actor praise a story that has been universally panned, only because they got a lot of airtime and were doing something different.

A lot of actors don't have much interest or awareness of the show as a whole.

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Soaps are unlike any other entertainment media, in the fact that many continue over many years, over decades, in fact. No actor would dictate to me how I write one of my plays. I know best, although a workshop where actors do a table read of my script, all the way to a staged reading, can massively inform how I "tweak" my play. If a writer goes into an existing soap, most of the actors have been there long before that writer and in that case, they would have more information than that writer and an intelligent writer would lean on those actors as guides, in addition to archived scripts and video episodes to continue stories.

Of course, many actors want to have plenty of story and are more likely to view a show favorably if they are actively being utilized on the canvas-- they want to work, and frankly, that's their job. Unless they have interest in directing, producing or writing, it's not their job to know how the other parts of production work. They also know and care that everyone is doing their jobs effectively- they don't want the show to be cancelled, especially due to some BTS f*ckry.

 

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On 8/12/2021 at 10:20 AM, wonderwoman1951 said:

and then there’s the barbara bloom factor, who arrived at cbs daytime

Oh the final nail was Babs! I just remember Dylan on GL being recast with that slovenly Brian whathisface from PC...the just brought him back, broke him off with Bridget, and had him panting after Harley (cause, what else, she was the ULTIMATE sexy woman who made Reva in her prime look like a hag) all to just cast her buddy.

 

On 8/12/2021 at 10:20 AM, wonderwoman1951 said:

as for eileen, i agree. she always saw herself as the ‘world turn’s star, even after her star had faded. her marriages all ended in divorce, she had no children. it seems as though her life is made up of ‘world turns and her cabaret act, along with her dogs, which is kind of sad

Fulton is such an interesting person...she played this iconic role and rode it for all it worth, resisting letting the character age, which it did and became this warm beloved figure, but nobody in the reunions mention her...the one with the Lien actress did but it was more about admiring her for her old style divaness then her person.  I do know that she seemed to screw things up in her need for attention, when the Dobson's were there they created a whole family around her but she wasnt happy, so she started playing Lisa as being a ditz, died her hair a clown orange and then left the show to move to California to do pilots...(for WHAT??) While I didn't like Sheffer, Lisa was slated to be in the Scotland story but Fulton went on complaining like it was 1972 again that she didn't have enough to do and he got pissy and took her out of it and then we never saw her.  She seems kind of sad figure...hurt by TPTB but by that time she should have had enough in the bank to say, "See YA!"

Edited by Mitch
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1 minute ago, Mitch said:

Oddly enough, the only one who at least seemed to treat  people at least trying to be nice was Wheeler, and I hated her product.

Wheeler was one of the people I was thinking of when I was wondering out loud how much the problem with dying soaps was the quality of the producers.
She did make a horrible no-good awful castastrophic call with Peapack and the style change but it was clearly intended as a Hail Mary to save the show. 
I generally hear that she was a decent person and loved soaps. So the question in my head is always: if she hadn't worked under the constraints she had with the crashing budget, would her record have been as bad? Was it inherent bad judgement or was it the fact they were no good answers to the show's problems?
I dunno.
 

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2 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Wheeler was one of the people I was thinking of when I was wondering out loud how much the problem with dying soaps was the quality of the producers.
She did make a horrible no-good awful castastrophic call with Peapack and the style change but it was clearly intended as a Hail Mary to save the show. 
I generally hear that she was a decent person and loved soaps. So the question in my head is always: if she hadn't worked under the constraints she had with the crashing budget, would her record have been as bad? Was it inherent bad judgement or was it the fact they were no good answers to the show's problems?
I dunno.
 

Wheeler is another interesting person. She was considered for the EP position when Rauch left, and MADD, being MADD was afraid to let someone new take over, so she brought in old hack Conboy. I think at the the time, if Millet was still writing and with Wheeler having a budget her record would have been different. Again, I hate some of the choices she made but don't demonize her as Conboy blew the hell out of the budget with stuff like the stupid day glo fashion show and Shayne's baseball field...(all to spotlight his.."new find". I mean GL would have died anyway, PG and CBS were intent on that, but would we have some quality on the way to morgue? The last week of the show I could see that she and someone else got what we wanted to see, but...

 

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P&G definitely made, I guess the word might be choices that led their productions down the path to the state they were in when they cancelled by them.

Wiping, for instance. We're there other non-P&G soap operas that were as assiduous "wipers" as P&G soaps? If Y&R archived all their episodes from the beginning of their serial in 1973, shouldn't P&G at least tried to archive episodes from as far back as, maybe 1974-?

Choices.

My first job out of college (before Graduate school) was in the office of a producer and she was a prolific one. I have worked for one or two people (in the arts) who were both good at what they did and we're not assh*les. One can be both. That is also a choice.

Choices.

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13 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

've seen many an actor praise a story that has been universally panned, only because they got a lot of airtime and were doing something different.

A lot of actors don't have much interest or awareness of the show as a whole.

Take any of Zimmer's bad stories on GL...she would praise them to heaven and back, all the while bombing on the screen and taking Reva as far away from Pam Long's creation as can be. She LOVED the clone story and it was crap...The weird thing is that interviews during post cancellation Zimmer GOT it and what GL was..I guess having an actor's ego and being tied up into that makes you blind...(sorry, but actors who reach a certain level seem like they would be horrible people to work with!)

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On 8/10/2021 at 6:54 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Was Lisa still known as Grimaldi at the end of the series? For some reason that always struck me as strange. Eduardo had been deceased for how many years by then? I don't think Lisa ever stuck with a last name for that long. In a bizarre way, it was as if her identity no longer matter towards the end of the show's run anyway. They weren't writing for her, she was shunted off to the side, almost as if she were a non-person.  

I think so.  Especially since Damian popped in and out of town that last decade. Somewhere along the way they dropped McCloskey as Nancy's last name though. 

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Well Lisa was obviously a lady who liked the institution of marriage! Grimaldi was her last married name and had a certain prestige. And wasn't it a happy marriage?

I could hardly see her going back to being known as Lisa Miller. That version of herself was long gone.

She probably would have preferred Lisa Hughes.

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7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Well Lisa was obviously a lady who liked the institution of marriage! Grimaldi was her last married name and had a certain prestige. And wasn't it a happy marriage?

I could hardly see her going back to being known as Lisa Miller. That version of herself was long gone.

She probably would have preferred Lisa Hughes.

It would have been nice for viewers to actually find out how she felt about it (Susan too). These types of details would have played out onscreen once upon a time.

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8 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Well Lisa was obviously a lady who liked the institution of marriage! Grimaldi was her last married name and had a certain prestige. And wasn't it a happy marriage?

I could hardly see her going back to being known as Lisa Miller. That version of herself was long gone.

She probably would have preferred Lisa Hughes.

Eduardo died the day they were married, if memory serves. But she did love him very much. Unlike Whit, when she stopped using McCall before his body was even cool.

If the Earl Mitchell Center had still been being mentioned, maybe she would've returned to using that. 

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