As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[titan1978]

Did Blake have something to do with that?  I recall reading something along those lines, like either the scabs or Long when she came back from the strike decided to reveal Blake as Holly and Roger’s child, which was not the original plan.

[DRW50]

 

I do think the show became much darker. I've already gone on about that before, so no one wants to hear it again. Instead I will ask if anyone knows whether it was Marland who made Barbara and Lucinda enemies, or if that was a strike twist and he just kept it going. Initially I thought the latter, but then I remembered he did have Lucinda buy Barbara's company when she went to prison.

[Mitch]

I think they planned on Blake being Roger's daughter from the start..right? That is a big thing and a huge dip into history for scabs to make.  I just wonder what Long planned and how the scabs screwed it up...I would think Will "dying" would be one of them. But the show recovered so effortlessly that it makes me think that they were following Long's outline closely.

[DanMan869]

I have a good memory of the days of Hank Eliot. I had just started dating a guy and wasn't yet aware that he was also an big ATWT fan, but we were watching daytime TV together one day and had ATWT on when the big reveal that, "Hank Eliot is GAY!" played out and we both screamed out loud with glee. As a gay guy in his late teens at the time, when coming out of the closet was still an incredibly scary prospect, to see a TV character being gay revealed so matter-of-factly was like, "AAAAAAAAH!" (Yay!) Now, whenever I think of Hank Eliot's story, besides Brian Starcher (the handsome actor who played the role in such an understated way), I also think of the glee when two young gay guys watched a daytime first. Makes me smile.

[Soapsuds]

I'm surprised you were able to have a bf back in 1988. To be considered being gay or looked at being one was taboo. Even back in 1980 the fag/faggot word was used when your considered to be gay. So yeah coming out was not an option in 1988.

 

I too was excited at Hank being gay on my favorite soap yet as @Khan and I got back and forth on men's beauty....I thought couldn't they have gotten a hunkier Hank?

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I found  Starcher rather unattractive. I pretty much knew Hank was gay by the way Starched portrayed him. It's too bad he was written out and his presence in Oakdale wasn't flushed out more.

[bboy875]

At some point when they confirmed Roger was coming back, Pam Long told Digest that Blake was supposed to be a brand new character, & she wanted her to have a big secret from her past. But the strike hit before she knew what she wanted the secret to be, and the scabs introduced her. After the strike, Chris Bernau became too sick to work and Michael Zaslow was approached as a recast Alan. He suggested they bring Roger back instead, but tptb told him Roger was dead and no one would believe he survived the fall from the cliff. Nancy Curlee later said Long didn't know who Roger was (pretty unbelievable with the yrs she head wrote the show by that point). I believe both Long and Curlee said they, along with tptb watched Roger's fall from the cliff over and over, and they didn't hear the sound of his body hit the ground, which gave them the opening to bring him back. It's funny because I read somewhere that Marland didn't want the camera to pan down because he wanted the audience to believe that Roger's body was too mangled to show on camera, falling from the high of a height. Anyways, when they decided to bring Roger back is when they decided to turn Blake into Christina. It left potholes, like Ed losing touch with her and Holly, so when Holly returned they had her fill holes talking to Ed and Maureen (Ed wanting to understand why Holly wanted him to stop talking to Chrissy). 

I think bringing back Roger led them to recast Alan, with the sole purpose of having him sent to prison in 1989. Alan's story is what ended up changing, and then ending. With Alan's plans for revenge against Alex and Philip for taking over Spaulding, and what was supposed to happen longterm, after Reva finds out Alan knew Marah was Josh's and not Kyle's. I would love to know what was to happen next.

[DanMan869]

Well, actually, I had an older boyfriend during my senior year of high school in 1987. I think many gay guys had boyfriends back then and years and years before, too. I think the difference was not living an open life, "out and proud." Your straight friends often knew, your family sometimes knew, and (of course) your gay friends knew. To be honest, what might have been considered more "weird" back then was that you were into soap operas. It wasn't exactly a draw (when seeking long-term companionship) as it was often seen as having an interest in something that your mother or grandmother liked. All that said, coming out back in the 80s was/could be easier depending on where you lived in the US. I grew up in the New York metropolitan area. It was the suburbs, but still a bit more cosmopolitan than other small towns in the US.

 

I will admit--I thought Starcher was handsome, but not hunky. I don't think that in 1987-88 soaps were writing and casting for a gay character with the idea of "is (the actor) hot/hunky?" An attractive actor, sure, but not "we want everyone hot and bothered by this guy" like they might have with roles like Holden or the Oakdale himbos that followed. Let's face it: Marland still had Hank's partner off-screen (that's non-threatening!) and (IIRC--it's been 35 years) I think Charles (was that his name??) was either sick and dying or had died. This was no acceptance of someone being gay. Still, it was reflective of the times, for better or worse. Unless they were going to bring in his partner (if written as still alive) or a new love interest, they weren't going to do much with the character of Hank Elliot other than make him a supporting talk-to. I have to clarify--it wasn't a HUGE surprise to me back then that Hank Elliot was gay. Of course, as a gay man, I knew the character was supposed to be gay (even if Mrs. Average America may not have), but "the big SQUEE!" was that ATWT actually went there and said it out loud and fairly matter of factly.

 

I do wish Hank Elliot had been kept on the show longer--especially considering there were characters in Oakdale who LIKED Hank (and Paul absolutely did)--but I suspect that, IN THOSE TIMES, they were stuck in a corner with Hank and what they could and couldn't dramatize in the late 80s without experiencing backlash from the viewers (or vocal non-viewers who just got their panties in a twist over any gay characters on TV). It wasn't until almost 20 years later that they had a gay character (Luke Snyder) who developed a romance with another man (Noah) that was just as dramatic and tumultuous as pretty much any other romance on the show. Perhaps if ATWT were still on the air today in 2021, we might see Luke either in a committed relationship with or perhaps even married to another man. Maybe there would be more gay characters besides Luke (and his "beloved") on the canvas in 2021. Imagine if there was a "gay Lisa" on ATWT in 2021--someone generally likable, but with their fingers in everything and stirring up trouble? Getting married and divorced multiple times? I guess I'm just saying that Hank was a reflection of the 80s. Luke was more of a reflection of the '00s. Perhaps ATWT could have had a gay character for the '20s reflecting the times, too.

[Soapsuds]

Yeah his name was Charles and I believe he was dying of AIDS. 

 

@DanMan869 welcome to the board and since ATWT was your favorite soap....hope to see you posting more.

[DanMan869]

I should have posted this earlier (but since I've been posting here today...) I probably saw this back in 1988 (possibly live or likely VCR taped) and either swallowed hard or totally reveled in the moment... and then promptly forgot about it. The thing I always found attractive about Jon Hensley back in the day was that besides having a decent body, he had a hairy chest. For all the himbo photos posted in magazines like SOD, most of the guys then were either smooth or shaved (the latter unbeknownst to me/the public, of course). You had these guys with nice physiques and smooth chests... and then along comes Hensley with his furry pecs! Yum!

 

What is flooring me about this clip with Holden and Lily at the Snyder pond is two things:

 

1) Hensley "goods" are clearly visible beneath the exterior of his tighty-whiteys. Men's briefs are not like men's speedos. Speedos are intended to streamline the body for more speed in the pool; briefs are just intended to "carry the load." HOW DID NO ONE ON SET (producers, actor, etc.) not say, “um, should we do this?” Or maybe they were like, “hehehe… let’s do this!” In 2021, I’m glad it made it to air! LOL

2) Holden just out of the pond after a swim wearing only his white briefs. His body is speckled with water, his hair is a little wet, but… his white briefs are clearly dry and “not” clearly showing anything as wet underwear material would after being fully immersed in water. Sure, they weren’t going to go THAT far by allowing everything Hensley had to truly be seen, but… LOL who gets out of a body of water and the one piece of clothing they were wearing is bone dry? Oopsy, ATWT! LOL

Edited February 4, 2021 by DanMan869
Fixing display of text.

[DRW50]

Speaking of Hank, many, many years ago, I'd say mid '90s, there used to be a websoap of ATWT which had living in New York, secretly lovers with Andy.

 

(I think Jeff had also divorced Annie and had had a fling with Hank before Hank got involved with Andy...but it's been an eternity so I may be wrong)

 

The show never would have gone there, of course, but it was an interesting concept. 

[DanMan869]

HA! DRW, I assume by "websoap" you more meant written fan fiction? Imagine those storylines where not only was reliable good guy Andy Dixon secretly in a relationship with Hank Eliot, but originally jerky Dr. Jeff Ward was swinging both ways?

 

I think the beauty of fan fiction--GOOD fan fiction--is that it often goes places that the show SHOULD go, but is too afraid.

[Soapsuds]

That is what I loved about Holden too.  There was Bill Shanks and Greg Marx who had hairy chests too. I think Brian Bloom did too.

If we're taking fanfiction....I would've paired lawyer Gregg Marx Tom with stable boy Holden.

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[DanMan869]

Yes! I forgot about Shanks, Marx, and Bloom all having hairy chests. I don't think the viewers were given as many opportunities to see them as Hensley's though!

 

BTW, Gregg Marx is a lovely, talented, and sexy man and, little did many of us know, gay IRL. It's too bad he's not on one of the LA soaps today--gay or straight character.

[DRW50]

 

Yes, but it was done differently in those years than more recent variants. That - and the GL fan fiction of those years (which was mainly centered on Fletcher and Holly but had a lot of other characters) would release episodes 2-3 times a week, and try to write in a script format, used character photos, etc. It helped add a more authentic experience. Sadly all that was wiped long ago.

 

(by the way when I said secretly, I meant Andy was still closeted to his family back in Oakdale, rather than an affair type storyline)

Edited February 4, 2021 by DRW50

[Soapsuds]

Agreed on Gregg Marx! Did you catch his reunion with HBS and Scott Bryce?