I don't think the Dobson's were horrible, just probably not a great fit for the show.

At the same time, it all depends on what type of tone one enjoys. For me, I found good stuff with Marland, but I think he was also over-rated at the same time. Plus, the Dobson's were known for quirky characters and off the wall stories.. which seemed to fit GL and SB.. just not ATWT.

Edited January 25, 201411 yr by Soaplovers

I don't think the Dobson's were horrible, just probably not a great fit for the show.

At the same time, it all depends on what type of tone one enjoys. For me, I found good stuff with Marland, but I think he was also over-rated at the same time. Plus, the Dobson's were known for quirky characters and off the wall stories.. which seemed to fit GL and SB.. just not ATWT.

I agree. I think the main thing is that they really tossed out that " close family feeling," that the show had for so long. Everyone was connected to everyone else, etc. That didnt come back until they left. I think that the show could have managed the camp, adventure and cartoonishness of the Dobsons if they had kept that family thing going. A LOT of Marland was camp...Duncan moving an entire castle with secret passages to midwestern Oakdale? The "ghost" monks of the castle, the real "ghost," of the castle, Lillith, the shrunken head of annoying Shannon (come to think of it most of the camp was surrounding that dumb castle..) but it was okay as the family background was intact.

This looks like the start of the Dobson's with Nick, the bookstore burndown, and Barbara making mysterious visits. When do the Dobson's start to dismantle the structure?

Interesting that Annie and Barbara are roommates and friends. It would have been interesting to have seen Annie's reaction to Barbara and Emily's feud. Though I agree that the character was played out by the time she left in 1984, though I think Dee could have survived long-term if this Dee had stayed on instead of being recast by a more boring actress.

Marland seemed to take out all of his wackier excesses through Shannon and Shannon/Duncan. Once Margaret Reed left his writing seemed to become more somber all around.

I agree. I think the main thing is that they really tossed out that " close family feeling," that the show had for so long. Everyone was connected to everyone else, etc. That didnt come back until they left. I think that the show could have managed the camp, adventure and cartoonishness of the Dobsons if they had kept that family thing going. A LOT of Marland was camp...Duncan moving an entire castle with secret passages to midwestern Oakdale? The "ghost" monks of the castle, the real "ghost," of the castle, Lillith, the shrunken head of annoying Shannon (come to think of it most of the camp was surrounding that dumb castle..) but it was okay as the family background was intact.

Duncan/Shannon had their roots in pure gothic romance, not camp. I'm not denying Marland had his farcical moments, (aaah, my wee lassie," as Duncan holds Shannon's tennis-ball head..) but he was much more rooted in emotion than slapstick.

I think Duncan/Shannon were more gothic romance, but Shannon had a fair amount of camp (especially with Harriet and Earl). That seemed to tone down after a few years, of course.

Before Zoey Deschanel, there was Shannon O'Hara. Shannon was quirky before it became a 'thing'.

I actually have a question about camp vs. broad humor.

To me, something can't qualify as true camp if it is only regulated to one or two characters, unless they are the only two characters on the whole show. To me, the majority of the show has to be zany enough to qualify as true camp. An obvious example would be Passions.

As The World Turns had zany elements and Shannon was a zany character but I wouldn't say that qualifies as camp in the true sense of the word.

Maybe that's just me...what do others think?

It depends on the material. I'd say a lot of Shannon's run could qualify as zany, but her dunking Barbara's head in the toilet was pure camp. Actually most of Barbara in 1986 was camp, camp, camp, probably the gayest thing Doug Marland ever wrote. (Lucinda was the same way - she toned down a lot once they put her with John, but 1986 was diva drag histrionics).

Edited January 26, 201411 yr by DRW50

Were there any characters created by Marland on ATWT that would be considered campy, or zany? I know Shannon, Lucinda, and Barbara had their moments.. but he didn't create those characters.

Perhaps Julie?

IA...I think of Passions as true camp. I remember Shannon and Harriet as more Lucy&Ethel situational slapstick than some defining element of the show.

Were there any characters created by Marland on ATWT that would be considered campy, or zany? I know Shannon, Lucinda, and Barbara had their moments.. but he didn't create those characters.

Perhaps Julie?

Marcy and Tess.

Earl Mitchell was very campy, although that's mostly from Farley Granger's queening.

A lot of other side characters/short-term characters too, like that ridiculous daughter of Jared Carpenter's.

And of course the divine Lilith, who was camp personified.

Edited January 26, 201411 yr by DRW50

Heh, after watching the John is alive clip I decided to dig up this article I recall reading about it. The nasty prosecutor I believe was Brian McColl #2 played by Frank Telfar. From Soap News:

REMEMBER WHEN?

JOHN DIXON IS ALIVE! 1982, WORLD TURNS

by Beth Cochran


One of my childhood memories is of my mother screaming in shock when she found out that John Dixon faked his own death on As the World Turns. John Dixon had made a lot of enemies in Oakdale over the years, including James Stenbeck, who was after John’s ex-wife Dee Stewart. John also found out that James was not the true Stenbeck heir and blackmailed him. He would keep the information to himself if James paid him one million dollars a year. James gave him part of the money but then decided he would kill John and get rid of his body without anyone ever knowing what happened.

Dee’s mother Ellen found John’s body on the floor at his house. She called the police, but when they arrived, there was blood on the floor but no body. One of John’s shoes was found near the lake but his body never turned up. John was presumed dead and his family held a memorial service for him.

John’s ex, Dee, whom he still loved, was arrested for John’s murder. Prior to John’s “death,” they had gotten into an argument about her relationship with James. Dee had made the comment that she hated John so much she could kill him.

On the witness stand, prosecutor Brian McColl grilled Dee about her relationships with John and James. Brian taunted her and Dee began to crumble, shouting over and over that she didn’t know who killed John. Just then, Dee looked up and saw a man standing at the back of the room. It was John, disguised in a wig and beard. John removed the disguise and the entire courtroom erupted into chaos. John was alive all this time. He had faked his death to frame James for the murder, but when it looked like Dee would take the fall, John decided to return. When James saw John outside the courtroom, he couldn’t believe his eyes. John loved taunting his enemy with his sudden return from the grave.

This was one of soaps’ best courtroom dramas, full of suspense and surprise. Today, trials are one of the dreaded, dragged-out storyline don’ts. Here in 2002 with all the Internet spoilers of the day, there’s no way a surprise like John’s return could stay a surprise for long. They just don’t make ’em like they used to.

I think you could think of Julie as more "tramp" then "camp"

Brian McColl was a lawyer? Damn...don't remember that at all.