I thought I'd open since it's been a week. It still doesn't seem real.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-XT__Xjl0

August 1988. So it is a strike episode.

Now I'm curious if one of the other scenes from 1988 I thought was un-Marland (Kim telling Seth that Betsy is like a daughter to her, and she hasn't forgotten how much he hurt her other daughters) was also during the strike - maybe not if Seth and Betsy were already a couple by then.

Yes, that (very beautifully written) scene between Kim and Seth is from the August 2, 1988 episode. Other than a "Story by Douglas Marland" in the end credits, there is no writing team listed (for obvious reasons -- no one wants to be known as a scab writer.) I once had a conversation with the writer BK Perlman who wrote for "Ryan's Hope" in the mid-80s. Prior to being hired as an RH writer in 1983 she had actually been a scab writer for RH during the 1981 writer's strike. (She, of course, used a different pseudonym during that time.) Later, when producers were looking to fill their writing staff in 1983, they remembered her and her work and officially hired her. I'm not certain if others in the writer's room were aware of her past?

16 hours ago, Khan said:

True. But, you know, even if I were to look past the "baby fever" angle, the whole story just...lays there for some reason. There's no real suspense to grab you; no urgency or desperation (although, the actors are doing their very best); no real stakes. In a way, it's like the precursor to the unfortunate "baby Cabot saga" that seemed to eat the show alive during the Sheffer and/or Passanante era.

Can someone explain the whole "Baby Cabot" storyline to me...I quit watching at that point as I could care less about Carly or Roseanne and HATE any storyline surrounding a baby.

2 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Can someone explain the whole "Baby Cabot" storyline to me...I quit watching at that point as I could care less about Carly or Roseanne and HATE any storyline surrounding a baby.

I still don't know what the point of that was. It seemed like there was a very, very hard push to put Jordan and Chris Beetem over at the time, and then he and the entire storyline just vanished overnight.

I actually thought Jordan/CB was quite good but I wonder what happened there. Later I remember him making a public stink about his stupid role on OLTL, in a poorly-done storyline that unfortunately proved quite prescient for today (the One Pure People white supremacist group).

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by Vee

3 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Can someone explain the whole "Baby Cabot" storyline to me.

Well, it's been a long time since the entire story unfolded, and I still can't recall or make sense of all the twists and turns...sigh...but I'll try, lol.

Basically, Rosanna, who is married to Craig at this point, wants a baby. Craig, however, doesn't want a baby - I guess, because he had just lost Bryant? - but to appease his wife, he arranges for an adoption.

Rosanna learns that the adoption (of their son, whom she names "Cabot") was illegal and that she has to give Cabot back to his biological mother, who lives, offscreen, in Canada. Rosanna dumps Craig and leaves Oakdale (and somewhere, in the middle of all this, Rosanna falls in love with Paul Ryan, too).

In the meantime, Rosanna gets back in touch with Cabot's bio mom, who tells her that she could have Cabot back, but only if she convinces Jordan Sinclair to marry her. (Don't ask me why, lol).

So, Rosanna does just that: she cons Jordan into marrying her. It's only AFTER they marry, however, that Jordan learns he is Cabot's biological father. (I think this is also when Jordan learns he, himself, is James Stenbeck's illegitimate son, but I'm not sure).

Rosanna panics when she learns that James is Cabot's paternal grandfather and abducts the baby. James, in turn, abducts Cabot and Rosanna and leaves them to die in a burning building. Someone - Jordan? Paul? - rescues Rosanna, but the baby is presumed dead. Jordan annulls his and Rosanna's marriage and leaves town.

Barbara, who had crossed over to the dark side with James, plots with him to implicate Emily in some bizarre scheme to drive Rosanna crazy with the suggestion that her baby was still alive (which he was, James had rescued Cabot from that fire). Rosanna agrees to dump Paul in exchange for getting Cabot back. Rosanna leaves Oakdale again.

Some time later, though, Craig finds Rosanna (and Cabot) someplace out of the country. Rosanna is devoted to her son, but realizes that she has to give up baby Cabot for adoption again, or else he'll always be in danger of being taken by James Stenbeck...

...which, I think, led us straight into the Jennifer/Gwen baby switch, but whatever. I mean, all that drama over a child that ended up being given away anyway, and a baby drama that led us only to yet another baby drama. No wonder I ended up on antidepressants, lol.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by Khan

7 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

Yes, that (very beautifully written) scene between Kim and Seth is from the August 2, 1988 episode. Other than a "Story by Douglas Marland" in the end credits, there is no writing team listed (for obvious reasons -- no one wants to be known as a scab writer.) I once had a conversation with the writer BK Perlman who wrote for "Ryan's Hope" in the mid-80s. Prior to being hired as an RH writer in 1983 she had actually been a scab writer for RH during the 1981 writer's strike. (She, of course, used a different pseudonym during that time.) Later, when producers were looking to fill their writing staff in 1983, they remembered her and her work and officially hired her. I'm not certain if others in the writer's room were aware of her past?

Thanks.

I'd never heard that story about BK Perlman. I actually enjoyed RH more during the brief strike period than I did the rest of that year.

I find 1988 strike-period ATWT fascinating as you can see the outlines (for instance, the building up of the Langes, the arrival of Hank Elliot) yet there are a slew of moments which go extremely off the rails; the whole Laura mystery turning into very woozy '50s noir; in such a short space of time Lien and Pam being held hostage, especially since Robert Tyler was wasted when in another universe he would have been the ideal Marland angsty cornfed hero. The show becomes much pulpier alongside the more traditional elements (the episode where Betsy learns the truth about Josh/Meg having some lovely moments with Mac's daughter accepting Nancy).

Those little moments like the one with Kim and Seth always stand out for me because Marland just had such a specific style and focus on relationships (I don't remember Betsy and Kim ever being as close under his pen, although they were still a part of each other's life). It's interesting seeing the show briefly broken free of those constraints, although when they were permanently broken free...you see the end results in 1993 and 1994.

I do wonder if he still would have had the same plans for Meg/Josh if not for the strike. I suppose Jennifer Ashe wanting to leave also made that easier (not sure if it was Bill Fichtner's choice to leave or not).

I still wonder if the strike affected any of his plans for Beau and Pam too as they didn't exactly have great material from then on and then Marland dumped them both less than a year later.

3 hours ago, Khan said:

Well, it's been a long time since the entire story unfolded, and I still can't recall or make sense of all the twists and turns...sigh...but I'll try, lol.

Basically, Rosanna, who is married to Craig at this point, wants a baby. Craig, however, doesn't want a baby - I guess, because he had just lost Bryant? - but to appease his wife, he arranges for an adoption.

Rosanna learns that the adoption (of their son, whom she names "Cabot") was illegal and that she has to give Cabot back to his biological mother, who lives, offscreen, in Canada. Rosanna dumps Craig and leaves Oakdale (and somewhere, in the middle of all this, Rosanna falls in love with Paul Ryan, too).

In the meantime, Rosanna gets back in touch with Cabot's bio mom, who tells her that she could have Cabot back, but only if she convinces Jordan Sinclair to marry her. (Don't ask me why, lol).

So, Rosanna does just that: she cons Jordan into marrying her. It's only AFTER they marry, however, that Jordan learns he is Cabot's biological father. (I think this is also when Jordan learns he, himself, is James Stenbeck's illegitimate son, but I'm not sure).

Rosanna panics when she learns that James is Cabot's paternal grandfather and abducts the baby. James, in turn, abducts Cabot and Rosanna and leaves them to die in a burning building. Someone - Jordan? Paul? - rescues Rosanna, but the baby is presumed dead. Jordan annulls his and Rosanna's marriage and leaves town.

Barbara, who had crossed over to the dark side with James, plots with him to implicate Emily in some bizarre scheme to drive Rosanna crazy with the suggestion that her baby was still alive (which he was, James had rescued Cabot from that fire). Rosanna agrees to dump Paul in exchange for getting Cabot back. Rosanna leaves Oakdale again.

Some time later, though, Craig finds Rosanna (and Cabot) someplace out of the country. Rosanna is devoted to her son, but realizes that she has to give up baby Cabot for adoption again, or else he'll always be in danger of being taken by James Stenbeck...

...which, I think, led us straight into the Jennifer/Gwen baby switch, but whatever. I mean, all that drama over a child that ended up being given away anyway, and a baby drama that led us only to yet another baby drama. No wonder I ended up on antidepressants, lol.

a couple of add-ins:

Rosanna got baby fever after Carly had Sage. Craig resisted, but eventually pretended to cave and agreed to look into adoption. He actually sabotaged the first attempt (I think it had something to do with him "accidently" exposing his own past actions in kidnapping baby Dani, but my memory's fuzzy). When Ro left him over it, he arranged to buy a baby, and passed it off as a quick, legal adoption. What he didn't know was that James had set him up. (Why...again, the why never quite made sense, it was probably mostly to get an in with Rosanna and set up his grandchild to the Cabot millions.)

When Rosanna found out the adoption was illegal and was forced to give back the baby, she left Craig. He again tried to lure her back by faking a heart attack. They took him to Memorial, and Ro dutifully went there to check on him. He made her promise to stick around, and as they wheeled him away, she fittingly said, "the last words between us were a lie," and prepared to leave town. She leaves Carly a blank check (to use to fulfill her dreams) and disappeared for about a year.

When she returned, Carly had just agreed to design for Paul at BRO. Paul wanted to throw his mother out of BRO, not knowing she was going blind. Carly agrees, but then Ro sweeps in and tells Carly it would be a betrayal, and Carly in a sisterly moment, agrees to back out. Ro changes her mind though because she can use Carly to get closer to Jordan. Jordan has started falling for Jennifer, and Ro gravitates toward Paul, who she had befriended when he'd been accused of Rose's murder.

The four eventually agree to cooperate to keep Cabot safe from James. James found out it was a lie and kidnapped Ro and Cabot. James put them in a cabin set to explode, and told Paul he could only save one. Paul got Ro out, and when he went back for Cabot, the cabin exploded. Everyone believed Cabot had died. Ro blames Paul and refuses to speak with him. (This is all around the time Jack went off the bridge and was also believed dead.)

While Carly ends up searching for Jack, Paul comes over to help Ro (who's watching Parker and Sage) and they rebond and agree to marry. It's Paul and Ro's wedding that sparks something in Jack's memory. (but I'm getting off track.)

James is again angry that Paul and Ro have defied him and then there's some wacky stuff with Babs giving Em drugs to terrify Ro with reminders of Cabot, and James then forces Ro to "admit" that she drugged Emily, in exchange for Cabot, who he reveals is alive. Ro and Paul break up, Ro leaves town.

When Cady McClain returns, we find out that James has Ro prisoner in Hong Kong. Craig finds her and they leave with Cabot. But realizing that James will never stop using Cabot, they hide him with unknown people in an unknown country. (how they arranged it escapes me) Since they don't t know where he is, they expect that James won't be able to find him either. THE CABOT SAGA ENDS.

Then there's the Billy/Rory/Baby Johnny story, where Craig knocked up Jennifer, switched his live son with Gwen's dead baby, adopted it with Rosanna. Rosanna found out and while driving away from Craig to tell Jenn, had a car accident and went into a coma. Paul then allowed Jen to continue to believe her son had died, knowing that Craig had switched babies and Carly and Jack were raising his nephew.

Wow! Thank you, @P.J. , for filling in the blanks for me. Like I said, it's been years since that hot mess aired; and even when it WAS airing, I wasn't paying close enough attention, because I thought (and still think) the whole story was entirely too convoluted.

18 minutes ago, Khan said:

Wow! Thank you, @P.J. , for filling in the blanks for me. Like I said, it's been years since that hot mess aired; and even when it WAS airing, I wasn't paying close enough attention, because I thought (and still think) the whole story was entirely too convoluted.

Oh, it was. And it seemed to be a handy excuse to write Cady McClain off when she wanted to go and do other things.

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

Then there's the Billy/Rory/Baby Johnny story, where Craig knocked up Jennifer, switched his live son with Gwen's dead baby, adopted it with Rosanna. Rosanna found out and while driving away from Craig to tell Jenn, had a car accident and went into a coma. Paul then allowed Jen to continue to believe her son had died, knowing that Craig had switched babies and Carly and Jack were raising his nephew.

Didn't they say Craig drove her off the road deliberately?

And doesn't she end up in a farmer's market later on or something? I don't know...

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Didn't they say Craig drove her off the road deliberately?

And doesn't she end up in a farmer's market later on or something? I don't know...

Unfortunately, I think that's what happened, lol.

Say what you will about Douglas Marland, but his ATWT was never as off-the-rails as all that. Heck, even the lowest points of Mary-Ellis Bunim's run as EP were more watchable than most or all of Chris Goutman's regime.

Edited 49 minutes ago49 min by Khan

2 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Didn't they say Craig drove her off the road deliberately?

And doesn't she end up in a farmer's market later on or something? I don't know...

Well, originally it was written as deliberate. Or if not deliberate, at least reckless and self-serving on Craig's part.

Yes, after she went to Switzerland in a coma, got better and returned to town, this time scheming with Craig to separate Paul and Meg. She then goes comatose again after failing to get Paul back. Then she shows up on a cooperative in some remote bumpkin-ville. She said she didn't bother telling her sister she emerged from the coma because she didn't want to be a part of her former life anymore, or some such BS. It's right around the time Carly became a drunk, and then Ro falls into bed with Craig (who is now Carly's fiancé.)

11 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Well, originally it was written as deliberate. Or if not deliberate, at least reckless and self-serving on Craig's part.

Yes, after she went to Switzerland in a coma, got better and returned to town, this time scheming with Craig to separate Paul and Meg. She then goes comatose again after failing to get Paul back. Then she shows up on a cooperative in some remote bumpkin-ville. She said she didn't bother telling her sister she emerged from the coma because she didn't want to be a part of her former life anymore, or some such BS. It's right around the time Carly became a drunk, and then Ro falls into bed with Craig (who is now Carly's fiancé.)

Thanks. Kudos for remembering all that. I was either not watching or watching and just not caring.