2 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Montega is first mentioned in late 1984 as Lucinda learns about the revolution there and has Craig go rescue Sierra. I don't remember if he knew Sierra was her daughter at that time or not. 

 

We never saw Jacobo, I believe.

 

Thanks. If I remember correctly they did not mention Tonio yet. He did not come to Oakdale until after Sierra and Craig were a couple. So apparently he was in Montega during the revolution but obviously survived.

49 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Montega is first mentioned in late 1984 as Lucinda learns about the revolution there and has Craig go rescue Sierra. I don't remember if he knew Sierra was her daughter at that time or not. 

 

We never saw Jacobo, I believe.

 

When Craig ventured to Montega for the first time, he did not know that Sierra was Lucinda's daughter.  By the time Craig was forced out of the country by hired goons (staged to protect Sierra who, unbeknownst to Craig was in hiding for her safety), he and Sierra had bonded considerably. 

I sincerely doubt that Craig would've had grief sex with Lucinda one night after they were told that Sierra had died if he knew the connection. 

 

Craig later learned the Sierra was Lucinda's daughter after he and Sierra had already been engaged to marry and he urged Lucinda to tell Sierra before John Dixon did  (who wanted Sierra for himself and blackmailed Lucinda with the information in order for her to give up her board seat at Memorial Hospital, which John also wanted) .

 

Of course, later on John, to spite both Craig and Lucinda told Sierra the secret that Lucinda had been hiding while also revealing that Craig discovered it and kept it from her as well.

46 minutes ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

 

Thanks. If I remember correctly they did not mention Tonio yet. He did not come to Oakdale until after Sierra and Craig were a couple. So apparently he was in Montega during the revolution but obviously survived.

 

Sierra wanted Tonio to walk her down the aisle when she and Craig were supposed to marry and asked Craig if it would be alright. Craig reluctantly agreed. 

Tonio had supposedly fled during the revolution (they were always talking about the junta, a term I had yet to understand the meaning of) and was in Miami in business school (or something) at that time.  I distinctly remember a scene where he mentioned Lucinda being a guest speaker at the business executive program he was involved in.

Edited June 30, 20187 yr by DramatistDreamer

17 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

When Craig ventured to Montega for the first time, he did not know that Sierra was Lucinda's daughter.  By the time Craig was forced out of the country by hired goons (staged to protect Sierra who, unbeknownst to Craig was in hiding for her safety), he and Sierra had bonded considerably. 

I sincerely doubt that Craig would've had grief sex with Lucinda one night after they were told that Sierra had died if he knew the connection. 

 

Craig later learned the Sierra was Lucinda's daughter after he and Sierra had already been engaged to marry and he urged Lucinda to tell Sierra before John Dixon did  (who wanted Sierra for himself and blackmailed Lucinda with the information in order for her to give up her board seat at Memorial Hospital, which John also wanted) .

 

Of course, later on John, to spite both Craig and Lucinda told Sierra the secret that Lucinda had been hiding while also revealing that Craig discovered it and kept it from her as well.

 

Sierra wanted Tonio to walk her down the aisle when she and Craig were supposed to marry and asked Craig if it would be alright. Craig reluctantly agreed. 

Tonio had supposedly fled during the revolution (they were always talking about the junta, a term I had yet to understand the meaning of) and was in Miami in business school (or something) at that time.  I distinctly remember a scene where he mentioned Lucinda being a guest speaker at the business executive program he was involved in.

 

Thanks. I guess that explains it all. Of course Tonio turned out to be a villain, and John ended up marrying Lucinda and changing some of his earlier attitudes.

 

Edited June 30, 20187 yr by JarrodMFiresofLove

13 minutes ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

 

Thanks. I guess that explains it all. Of course Tonio turned out to be a villain, and John ended up marrying Lucinda and changing some of his earlier attitudes.

 

 

What's funny is that John and Lucinda had been 'teased' from as far back as 1984.  I remember watching an episode uploaded to You Tube a few years ago where they went on a date at Diana's--it did not go well. 

 

Even the time when John was blackmailing Lucinda with the knowledge about Sierra over the board seat or over Lily's being adopted (he didn't know that Iva was the mother until after he and Lucinda married, I think), he and Lucinda always found ways to be in each other's orbit. 

 

Once, John even coerced Lucinda into having lunch with him in the hospital cafeteria, where unable to stomach the food, Lucinda just sat there and watched John eat, with a look of revulsion on her face.  I think she even mentioned the cafeteria food being on par with the company, LOL.

Edited June 30, 20187 yr by DramatistDreamer

Thanks.

6 hours ago, P.J. said:

And one if the InTurn winners played Evan Walsh IV, which would've made him Evan's son.  

today that guy is known as Ryan Serhant of Million Dollar Listing New York on Bravo.

I was going to try to make a clip of the promo but it didn't work. Somebody put up some old May 1982 ads and one has a promo of John and Ariel about 8 minutes and 45 seconds in.

 

 

Edited June 30, 20187 yr by DRW50

Marland showed such poor judgement by splitting John and Lucinda up..for freakin' Mama Snyder and Iva..(which would be gross even if they weren't related...) They could have been the anti Bob and Kim...bickering across Oakdale. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb....

At the risk of sounding like a Marland apologist, I think John and Lucinda were supposed to be one of those break up to make up couples.  They butted heads from the very beginning so it was never going to be continued bliss with them (or any soap couple, tbh). 

There has to be a mixture of conflict and harmony or there is no drama.  I guess sometimes Marland went a bit heavy on the conflict

 

One definite criticism I do have is although I think Marland wrote longing like very few could, he tended to keep his couples separated for very lengthy periods of time and sometimes it backfired, like when an actor left.  Tom and Margo (GM & HBS), Sierra and Craig, John and Lucinda.  None of those actor departures had anything to do with Marland.  They were talent who wanted to spread their wings in other directions but it was unfortunate that because their characters had been written to be separated for so long, the viewers didn't get to enjoy them for as long as they could have.

 

And it was problematic that sometimes the Snyders were interjected a bit too much, although in the long run, Emma and John, provided a good set up for the twist that would come when John and Lucinda eloped and Emma discovers this when Lucinda comes waltzing down those stairs and bodly stakes her claim on John.  Sorry but that was good drama. 

If any Snyder was objectionable, it was the inserting of Ellie between Kirk and Iva, which ultimately, flopped and for good reason.

4 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Neither did I, but he was very charismatic.

 

The actor had been on the short-lived FOX soap Tribes for a while, and although the series was dreadful, I kept watching until the bitter end, largely because Greg Watkins was so adorable, and looked so enticing in the super-tight jeans he used to wear, LOL.

 

I actually watched Tribes.. I was a kid and it was a show with great potential... but the headwriters weren't the best pick (Mary M from Ryans Hope.. and Trent Jones)... but the overall concept was interesting.

 

I do recall him on the show.. as well as Michelle Stafford (who came in as the show was ending... they were going to be paired had the show continued).

 

Evan was my first clue I was into men because he was just beautiful to look at.  

 

I think under-written characters like Evan suffered if the casting wasn't right.  That Taylor character (Casey's ex) could have been a long term character since she worked at the hospital and seemed like a great spoiler on paper.. but the casting was all wrong.

 

So I was re-watching Marland era ATWT in spurts... and I noticed when Iva first came on, she was dressed pretty trendy and kind of flashy for the first year or two until 1987/88 before the show began to make her look dowdy.  By the time she left in 1994, she was dressing like she was Emma's age and the actress in real life was in her late 30s when she left the show.  

28 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

At the risk of sounding like a Marland apologist, I think John and Lucinda were supposed to be one of those break up to make up couples.  They butted heads from the very beginning so it was never going to be continued bliss with them (or any soap couple, tbh). 

There has to be a mixture of conflict and harmony or there is no drama.  I guess sometimes Marland went a bit heavy on the conflict

 

One definite criticism I do have is although I think Marland wrote longing like very few could, he tended to keep his couples separated for very lengthy periods of time and sometimes it backfired, like when an actor left.  Tom and Margo (GM & HBS), Sierra and Craig, John and Lucinda.  None of those actor departures had anything to do with Marland.  They were talent who wanted to spread their wings in other directions but it was unfortunate that because their characters had been written to be separated for so long, the viewers didn't get to enjoy them for as long as they could have.

 

And it was problematic that sometimes the Snyders were interjected a bit too much, although in the long run, Emma and John, provided a good set up for the twist that would come when John and Lucinda eloped and Emma discovers this when Lucinda comes waltzing down those stairs and bodly stakes her claim on John.  Sorry but that was good drama. 

If any Snyder was objectionable, it was the inserting of Ellie between Kirk and Iva, which ultimately, flopped and for good reason.

 

What helped me accept the Snyders was that they brought new stories into the established core families. Seth and Frannie's relationship kind of injected the Hughes with something different. Iva was involved with Craig and became friends with Lisa. Ellie worked with Barbara. Holden married Emily for awhile. So Marland expertly wove the Snyders throughout, and they were not just this big new family taking over. They were blended in and though we hadn't ever heard of them before 1985 it felt like they'd always been there.

 

I read somewhere once, can't remember where, but supposedly someone higher up did not like Lisa Brown. I am going to say it was the network, since she'd already been a hit on GL and I think P&G liked her. Anyway, I read that Marland was being pressured to write Iva out in 1990 or 1991. He did not want to do that since he and Lisa Brown were very good friends and he had used her to launch the Snyders. The only way he was able to keep her on the show was to quickly devise a pregnancy and have the baby's father be John Dixon. That factored into the sudden end of John and Lucinda's marriage. Marland felt that the network would stop pushing to get rid of Iva if she was going to have a baby by one of the show's main characters, John.

 

So I think that whole pregnancy was quickly cooked up to ensure Lisa Brown's continuation on the series. But if you'll notice that Brown was one of the first ones fired after Marland died. And her exit story was very rushed. It was like she no longer had Marland to go to bat for her and whoever wanted her gone had finally succeeded. They did not bring her back for recurring appearances until much later, during the Lily/Rose saga and those were fairly limited returns. Also John's son with Iva, M.J., was never aged, never brought on to the show as a teen, never really mentioned after Iva left and after John left in 2004 there was certainly no mention of M.J. He's a character that could have easily showed up at the farm for a summer teen storyline, visiting Grandma Emma and his cousins. Plus he was Lily's brother. For sure, Marland would have developed that character. But none of the later headwriters, including Sheffer, used him and I think it's because that meant they'd have to use Iva more which they didn't want to do.

 

I liked Finn Carter as Sierra and was sad when she was gone. I am surprised she never returned to soaps at some point. Her IMDB page lists her last role in 2005. I think someone posted that Scott  Bryce (Craig) still stays in touch with her.

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I couldn't stand her either. She was so damn whiny and never really very happy with anything, and I didn't understand why so many cute boys were interested in her. I always felt like she dragged Andy down. I wish he'd been allowed a fun pairing - even one. (Julie doesn't count as Julie was a mess, even though I enjoyed their friendship) 

Yes she was so whiny. Andy was always seemed so morose in any pairing he was in. I am surprised they didn't try Andy with Lilly back in the 80's.

3 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

Yes she was so whiny. Andy was always seemed so morose in any pairing he was in. I am surprised they didn't try Andy with Lilly back in the 80's.

 

They probably would have cried so much Oakdale would've been flooded.

22 minutes ago, JarrodMFiresofLove said:

 

Also John's son with Iva, M.J., was never aged, never brought on to the show as a teen, never really mentioned after Iva left and after John left in 2004 there was certainly no mention of M.J. He's a character that could have easily showed up at the farm for a summer teen storyline, visiting Grandma Emma and his cousins. Plus he was Lily's brother. For sure, Marland would have developed that character. But none of the later headwriters, including Sheffer, used him and I think it's because that meant they'd have to use Iva more which they didn't want to do.

 

 

MJ returned briefly in 1998 or 1999, when John was in court with Carly about her unborn child (I think). He thought he was the father as he'd artificially inseminated her and used his own sperm (ugh) without her knowing (she wanted a baby so she could get a lot of money from Rosanna). 

 

I think he didn't come back with Sheffer because they just didn't care about John by that point.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

At the risk of sounding like a Marland apologist, I think John and Lucinda were supposed to be one of those break up to make up couples.  They butted heads from the very beginning so it was never going to be continued bliss with them (or any soap couple, tbh). 

There has to be a mixture of conflict and harmony or there is no drama.  I guess sometimes Marland went a bit heavy on the conflict

 

I can see why Marland split them up - Lucinda had to pay a price for her many, many schemes so that viewers would feel sorry for her. Losing John was a big part of that. And she continued to be a major part of his life, which led to more drama.

 

I think the mistake was in what they did with John after he and Lucinda split up. The relationship with Iva was just so somber, and he didn't need another child. John worked best on the outside.

41 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I liked Finn Carter as Sierra and was sad when she was gone. I am surprised she never returned to soaps at some point. Her IMDB page lists her last role in 2005. I think someone posted that Scott  Bryce (Craig) still stays in touch with her.

Yes she was so whiny. Andy was always seemed so morose in any pairing he was in. I am surprised they didn't try Andy with Lilly back in the 80's.

I know its not popular to say this but I hated Andy because of that..he was a morose bore! I know its the way they wrote him but I never really liked Scotty D...he always looked like he was going to burst out in tears any moment. When they put him with that boring girl who was going to be a "fashion model," ..UGGGH.

47 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I can see why Marland split them up - Lucinda had to pay a price for her many, many schemes so that viewers would feel sorry for her. Losing John was a big part of that. And she continued to be a major part of his life, which led to more drama.

 

I think the mistake was in what they did with John after he and Lucinda split up. The relationship with Iva was just so somber, and he didn't need another child. John worked best on the outside.

 

I agree.

 

Also, I think that, instead of flat-out leaving as others did,  Larry Bryggman might have begun to invest himself more heavily in theater, film and other non-soap projects-perhaps because he saw where things were headed in the corporate scheme of things and decided that it was best to diversify his talent, even if that meant acquiescing to a slightly reduced role at ATWT. Being a wily veteran, he likely foresaw some of the changes afoot, which turned out to be a wise move considering the fallout that would eventually happen.