19 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Didn't she return due to fan outcry of her being fired?

Not as much fan outcry as the ratings falling. Her reappareance didn't really do much for the ratings except it helped it stabilise a bit into the spring when shows usually fall.

On 3/4/2022 at 11:57 PM, Paul Raven said:

Something about Ann Marcus from various snippets I've seen, she always spilling tea about the devious people she's encountered and how she was wronged.

No doubt a lot of it is true but I would like to hear some other takes

eg the walking out of the restaurant story she presents a little bit of mischief but I'm sure if she had someone walk out on her she would present that as very unprofessional and totally out of line.

I think Ann Marcus had a target on her back the moment she walked onto the FC set. 

Earl Hamner liked her and trusted her and wanted her to have a more active role BTS, but Robert L. McCullough was out to remove her and anyone else he felt threatened his security on the show.  That's what Marcus meant when she referred to a producer who had Jane Wyman's ear or whatever. 

Moreover, according to Marcus' autobiography, "Whistling Girl," she knew she was in trouble after she defended an actor (I suspect Mel Ferrer) whom Wyman had made disparaging comments about.  After that incident, things cooled between producer and actor.  Ergo, I suspect Wyman herself played a hand in having Marcus removed from the show as well.

And then there are the rumors that Stephen Black and Henry Stern were fired after S3 because someone (Wyman again?) found out they were gay and living together.  (Although, if the rumors are true, then how did they get back onto for S8?  Unless it was McCullough or (...gulp...) Hamner who found them disgusting?)

Between DYNASTY and FC, it's truly a contest to see which primetime soap's backstage life was messier, lol.

19 hours ago, te. said:

Not as much fan outcry as the ratings falling. Her reappareance didn't really do much for the ratings except it helped it stabilise a bit into the spring when shows usually fall.

I tend to believe the OTHER story that I've heard/read over the years: that Ana-Alicia was fired (and Melissa was written out) before her contract was officially over; and that they brought her back as Samantha rather than pay her for episodes she wouldn't have been in.

On 3/5/2022 at 12:26 PM, Soaplovers said:

I don't get why they didn't create an Italian American character for Alfonso to play.  Someone back with an axe to grind against Angela due to her family losing their land, etc.

I'm gonna go way, way out on a limb here and suggest that KA could have joined FC as a Melissa recast.  Not that I didn't (and still don't) love Ana-Alicia!  I do!  But, if FC let Alicia go in order to save money, as I suspect they did, then it would have been easy to have Melissa disfigured in the fire and bring her back with a new face (and played by a new actress).

Of course, if you did that, you'd have to soften Melissa, because there's no way KA could have played crazy, bitchy Melissa at that point in her career.  On the other hand, Melissa returning as a more conventional heroine would have been easier to take than Pilar, who was really just a Melissa substitute anyway.

20 minutes ago, Khan said:

I think Ann Marcus had a target on her back the moment she walked onto the FC set. 

Earl Hamner liked her and trusted her and wanted her to have a more active role BTS, but Robert L. McCullough was out to remove her and anyone else he felt threatened his security on the show.  That's what Marcus meant when she referred to a producer who had Jane Wyman's ear or whatever. 

Moreover, according to Marcus' autobiography, "Whistling Girl," she knew she was in trouble after she defended an actor (I suspect Mel Ferrer) whom Wyman had made disparaging comments about.  After that incident, things cooled between producer and actor.  Ergo, I suspect Wyman herself played a hand in having Marcus removed from the show as well.

And then there are the rumors that Stephen Black and Henry Stern were fired after S3 because someone (Wyman again?) found out they were gay and living together.  (Although, if the rumors are true, then how did they get back onto for S8?  Unless it was McCullough or (...gulp...) Hamner who found them disgusting?)

Between DYNASTY and FC, it's truly a contest to see which primetime soap's backstage life was messier, lol.

I tend to believe the OTHER story that I've heard/read over the years: that Ana-Alicia was fired (and Melissa was written out) before her contract was officially over; and that they brought her back as Samantha rather than pay her for episodes she wouldn't have been in.

From what I heard, she got paid for two contracts in season 8... the Melissa one, and the contract for playing Samantha.

On 3/5/2022 at 2:01 PM, FrenchBug82 said:

And I would have loved to have seen what they could have done with a Melissa vs Pilar battle.

I'd go one better and bring back Cole for a Lance/Melissa/Cole/Pilar quadrangle.  Something tells me William R. Moses and Kristian Alfonso would have had chemistry, too.

On 3/5/2022 at 6:26 PM, soapfan770 said:

I do wish Julia had been given more to do as the show progressed instead of go nuts. 

At first, the show seemed to be setting up Julia as their answer to DALLAS' Sue Ellen - which would have been great to see, except, I don't think Abby Dalton had enough gravitas as an actor to pull off an alcoholism storyline.

Another big mistake: not doing what they could to hold onto Ken Olin (Father Christopher).  I know he felt he was "slumming it" after working on a show like "Hill Street Blues"; and I know, too, if he had stayed, he'd never have been available to play Michael Steadman on "thirtysomething."  But, dammit, I thought he fit in well with the FC cast; he was certainly easy on the eyes; and I thought his character had a lot of potential, too.

On 3/5/2022 at 7:08 PM, FrenchBug82 said:

The show was basically setting money on fire to make itself worse.

Yup, lol.

I could understand killing off Maggie - although, I think I would have had her just leave town with the kids in order to get away from Richard - but the manner in which they killed her off was just too ridic for words.  I mean, was Richard's ring really so important that she couldn't have just slipped her finger out of it?  It isn't as if the bastard couldn't have bought her another one!

Plus, it'd have made so much more sense to have her murdered by one of the Thirteen or their associates.  We all know cartels like that are never truly gone forever; they just go further underground.

ETA: If I had written it: the Thirteen, or what was left of the Thirteen, murders Maggie and abducts the kids.  Richard goes on a season-long quest to track down Maggie's killers and the children's whereabouts.  He might cross paths at one point with the very-much-alive Chase.  Together, the two continue their search.  At the end, it turns out that Michael Sharpe was responsible.  Sharpe is killed; Richard and Chase make amends; Chase returns to the life he had built for himself during the years he was presumed dead; and Richard returns to Falcon Crest to run the winery with Angela and Lance.

24 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

From what I heard, she got paid for two contracts in season 8... the Melissa one, and the contract for playing Samantha.

Really?  She did?

God, that show, lol.

She was smart to get two contracts...but that show, lol.

Edited March 7, 20223 yr by Khan

How did Lorenzo Lamas last so long on FC? 

Father Christopher... Ken was so hot...I can see why Melissa wanted him to sin.😂

I preferred him over Lance.

1 minute ago, Soapsuds said:

Father Christopher... Ken was so hot...I can see why Melissa wanted him to sin.😂

Christopher being tempted by Melissa was good, but my money would still be on a Melissa/Lance/Cole triangle (with Pilar added later to make it a quadrangle).

Instead, I would have introduced someone from Christopher's past to tell a very romantic, "Thorn Birds"-esque story, with Angela as the Mary Carson, doing everything she can to keep her newly found illegitimate grandson from leaving the priesthood (and joining Falcon Crest).

I read Robert McCullough’s interview on FalconCrest.org and he definitely seemed like he would be difficult to work for. He also mentions being fired due to money, but I feel it was likely due to his conflicts, which he suggested he had with many people. He also said Abby Dalton (who he claimed was the problem) was made Carlo’s killer because she kept complaining about what he’d written for Julia in the scripts. 
 

I do think the show was smart to bring Ann Marcus on. I’m almost done with season two and I’m reminded how he would bring in the most bland, under developed and generic supporting characters. This season we have new love interests for Lance, Cole, Vicky and Maggie. All bland with no development and no purpose. I’m on episode 15 and all Vicky does with her married love interest is go running. No dates, no steamy sex scene’s, no drama with his wife. Lance’s love interest may not exist, because most of their meetings are off screen. Cole’s brief older woman fling lasted a few episodes and nothing came of it. The worst is next season when Cole married Linda, who couldn’t be more forgettable if she tried. 
 

On the writing front, I looked and in addition to Cyrus Nowrasteh, Joel Surnow of 24 fame and Sheri Anderson from Days of Our Lives made up the HW team for the final season. I wonder how Sheri got that job. I’d love to hear her talk about it. 
 

Lastly, I know it’s controversial, but I did love Maggie’s death. I thought that was dark and classic Falcon Crest. The family seemed cursed and she was married to one of the worst of them, so it felt inevitable. I think it was a bold move and the scene holds up well. It was a strong way to set the tone.

 

I agree with @Khan that if they were going to kill Maggie, it should have at least tied to something that would drive story for the entire rest of the season.
Since they wanted to transform FC into a noir-ish different kind of show, this was the perfect set-up to provide motive for Richard - better than that insta-girlfriend - and some kind of rooting interest in things being resolved for the audience.

Instead killing her in such a tragically stupid, almost mundane way, felt intentionally humiliating to the character. We were discussing it recently regarding Linda in the Knots Landing thread. There are just deaths that happen in such a way that you can't help but feel decision-maker wanting to just twist the knife a tad more than necessary.

 

7 hours ago, Khan said:

At first, the show seemed to be setting up Julia as their answer to DALLAS' Sue Ellen - which would have been great to see, except, I don't think Abby Dalton had enough gravitas as an actor to pull off an alcoholism storyline.

I think Julia was salveagable even after they made her Carlo's murderer - which was a relative surprise as she was a main cast member. But they decided to double her down into the cliche crazy criminal instead of using the mental health issues to rebound on more interesting material.
I really wish the fact both Angela's daughters were mentally... special had been explored in a lot more depth and layers. Jane Wyman was an acting powerhouse and the few times she got to play Angela's heartbreak it was great. I think her having to reckon more as to why the two daughters she raised ended up having issues - while the son she didn't ended up just like him - should have been a stronger theme rather than a light subtext.
Instead they wrote Julia off and used Emma for comic relief.

7 hours ago, Khan said:

She was smart to get two contracts...but that show, lol.

Such an incredibly smart woman. 
Another ridiculous setting-money-on-fire aspect that hurt the show was that Michael Filerman was brought back for the beginning-of-the-end Season 8 because he had a co-creator credit for his work in the very early episodes of the first season and while he had had nothing to do with the show all that time - and as his creative choices in S 8 would prove he had not even watched it - he was being paid all that time some kind of co-creator fee.
CBS felt they were paying him to do nothing so they figured they would make him run the show to at least earn what they were paying him. 
Whatever creative missteps the show made, the business side of production was even more incompetent.

Edited March 7, 20223 yr by FrenchBug82

5 hours ago, Chris B said:

On the writing front, I looked and in addition to Cyrus Nowrasteh, Joel Surnow of 24 fame and Sheri Anderson from Days of Our Lives made up the HW team for the final season. I wonder how Sheri got that job. I’d love to hear her talk about it. 

I'd forgotten about Surnow - that doesn't surprise me. I knew a 24 guy was in there somewhere on the final season of FC, I just couldn't find the name readily available (and I know 24 well).

Surnow, Nowrasteh and Manny Coto clustered together in the post-9/11 2000s. All of them right wingers. Coto in particular is actually talented, but all of them have gone far to the fringe or in Nowrasteh's case started there. Anyway, OT. But yes, these guys brought in to amp up the action, etc. elements of a show is no coincidence.

 

Lana Turner was not a lady?😂

In case people were wondering why Kristian Alfonso's character was Latina and Ana-Alicia's Italian, his "How could it be plagiarism? Of course the vineyard owners were mostly Italian and the foreman was Mexican" remark should clarify where he was coming from.
It was the 80s and it probably wasn't malicious. But there is a mindset

10 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

In case people were wondering why Kristian Alfonso's character was Latina and Ana-Alicia's Italian, his "How could it be plagiarism? Of course the vineyard owners were mostly Italian and the foreman was Mexican" remark should clarify where he was coming from.
It was the 80s and it probably wasn't malicious. But there is a mindset

Ana Alicia also probably wasn't going into auditions trying to highlight her Mexican heritage which would limit her roles. I remember being shocked when I read Victoria Wyndham from AW was Mexican, but again, it's not surprising they don't acknowledge these things considering how Hollywood is.

16 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I remember being shocked when I read Victoria Wyndham from AW was Mexican, but again -- 

Wait, what?