HBO: Game of Thrones

[Juliajms]

I see what you're saying. I guess it depends on how far he takes it. If it was just some rough sex, I sort of feel like that's par for the course. Maybe by the faces Theon was making we were supposed to infer that he was really hurting her. I guess I figured he wasn't because his father wouldn't approve of that.

[DRW50]

I would have agreed with the second if it hadn't been more about Theon bashing and repeating the bizarre claim that he was Sansa's "brother."

The Mary Sue is very brave to make that choice, as they likely get good ad revenue from the show.

[DRW50]

I don't know who made this but it makes me laugh.

[YRBB]

Episode 5:

It is great to see Jon becoming 'a man'. Utterly fascinating. Stannis saying his goodbye felt so big and important. They really have managed to develop him even more.

The Sansa actress did a wonderful job with the discovery of Reek and the lunch with Ramsay and Daddy Bolton. Phew -- another episode where she hasn't been raped!

Jorah and Tyrion going through Valyria and seeing Drogon was stunning. Just beautiful FX, and so poignant for both characters. When we saw the man behind Tyrion, I gasped. Poor Jorah being infected.

Dany feeding the dragons -- yas, bitch. Simply put. Loved it. A bit WTF at her deciding to marry what's his face.

Grey Worm's alive -- yay! Once AGAIN, Grey Worm and Missandei brought me to tears.

[YRBB]

I'm glad they gave Jorah a moment to learn about his father. I thought it was fun how Tyrion manipulated the slavers. And, Adebisi! OMG! How nice.

The Sand Snake stuff was ludicrous. Wasn't feeling it at all. I hope we're mostly done with that, although Myrcella and Trystan is it? They were cute.

Littlefinger telling Cersei where Sansa is so he can become Warden of the North was a nice little twist. I don't think we've yet seen the full picture, so it'll be interesting to see how this develops.

Poor, stupid Margaery. It was clear where this was going with her testifying in front of the Gods. Kinda fun watching Cersei's manipulations against Margaery climax but still...

It was nice seeing Olenna again.

Poor Sansa! Not that this was unpredictable or avoidable in any way. Yawn at all the outrage. Ramsay is a sadistic psycho who tortured Theon for weeks before cutting his dick off. It's a surprise that, after marrying Sansa, he'd be rough with her? I am at least glad they mostly implied the whole thing and the acting from Sansa and, especially, that ending shot of Theon were heartbreaking. Now, Sansa, you cut Ramsay's dick off!

[YRBB]

LOOOOOL! YES!

[Antoyne]

Lol my boyfriend literally yelled out "Adebisi!!!" when that actor popped up. Do we have an OZ thread around here? I literally watched the entire series in like 3 weeks last summer when I was depressed.

[DRW50]

I don't know if we do, but if not you should create one. It would be fun to see what people have to say about the show.

Adebisi was a great character, and he never got boring or really had a bad story.

I don't think anyone was surprised - they just didn't want to see it, as the character of Sansa had already spent 4 seasons being victimized and they hoped things were changing.

Not to mention the implication from the writer of the episode that being raped is just all part of Sansa's strength and will make her stronger, which is a trope I don't really think is very healthy.

[YRBB]

I have two seasons left and it breaks my heart that it's going to have to come to an end sooner or later.

Well, it's understandable that they wouldn't want to see her victimized any more but it's clear that things are changing. That's not going to happen overnight (or even in a season). Sansa first has to grow into the person that will bring on that change. Sansa is being set up towards... something and her change started becoming very apparent in the second half of season 4. It's happening. That's clear. She's not all of a sudden going to tell Ramsay "no sex for you" and all will be fine. She's not all of a sudden going to have Catelyn's strength or talent in manipulation, although clearly the have hinted she will grow in these regards. They will build on her 'revenge' or whatever and, so far, there has been no indication that that isn't the case.

That being said, I really do need to see Sansa truly get revenge. There needs to be pay off, big time. Nothing is too small for the Boltons.

If this is the interview you're talking about, then I don't see any such implication. http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/17/game-thrones-sansa-ramsay-interview

[DRW50]

Rape = empowerment or strength is how I take the quote. She's a "hardened woman" who will do whatever she has to do. It wasn't enough that we already saw her suffering and overcoming. We had to go this far just to really know.

She's been growing into that person since season 1. That's why this all feels so flat to me - she already had this story with Joffrey. We already saw her cope with abuse and violence through Joffrey. We already knew she was strong. We already knew she had to placate dangerous men in order to survive. There's no real reason as far as I can see why we needed a retread of this, especially if she just ends up suffering until saved via Brienne in yet another comic book action biff-bam-pow scene. If they had nothing new to do with Sansa I wish they'd just done what they did with Bran and write her out.

Edited May 20, 2015 by DRW50

[YRBB]

This was referring to her decision to agree to Littlefinger's plan and marry Ramsay. It had nothing to do with the rape. Read the whole article for a clearer picture .

Not really. I don't even know where you came up with that. Sansa, all the way up to season 3, was still VERY much the same naive girl, with fairytale notions, that she was at the beginning. Yes, it lessened. Yes, her father's death, Joffrey's abuse, etc, did make her grow up a bit but she retained that original self for very long. It was until following her exit from KL, Lysa's murder and the stuff with Littlefinger that she truly started to morph into someone else. There was a definite shift in Sansa.

You are making all kinds of assumptions about what we'll be seeing with the Sansa/Ramsay story but, in reality, we really don't even know what's to come. You did the same thing regarding Brienne and we quickly saw that was not the case. How is this a retread when it's been ONE scene?Let's not even get into the fact that a lot of this story, so far, has to do with Theon, and what he did. What they have to reveal about Sansa through this marriage may be something neither you or I have any way of predicting.

Edited May 20, 2015 by YRBB

[DRW50]

The ‘choice’ I was referring to was Sansa’s choice to marry Ramsay and walk into that room. She feels marrying him is a vital step in reclaiming her homeland.

I'm not sure what else "walk into that room" would mean but knowing she would be raped and going through with it for her plans. If I misread, I guess that's on me.

They have repeatedly had this writing choice with Sansa. At the end of season 1 we saw her strength as she stood up to Joffrey. We then had that beaten out of her and she was nearly raped for good measure. At the end of season 2 we saw her trying to soothe the worried women during Blackwater and we saw her happiness at getting out of her marriage to Joffrey. By early season 3 we'd learned this was for naught, that she was still silly and a dreamer, and would have to marry Tyrion. By the end of season 3 we saw her trying to cope with this and trying to cope with her family's death. In season 4 we saw her believing she was safe only to yet again have the rug pulled out from under her with Lysa's madness. By the end of season 4 she had adopted a new look and had managed to lie to protect Littlefinger, her mentor/perverted manipulator.

Now we're in season 5. She again thought she had everything together, she was cold and distant toward Reek/Theon and Myranda (which some take to mean the show wanted her to be seen as a bitch who would be put back in her place - I hope they're wrong, but given this show's views on women...), and she was raped. She is once again in a terrible place, and something will likely happen at the end of the season that will strengthen her or seem to give her room to breathe, before it's all taken away yet again in early or mid season-6.

We've already seen the Joffrey retread scenes (Joffrey/Ramsay being arrogant and delusional as Sansa cuts her eyes or smirks at him where he can't see; Sansa being warned by those close to Joffrey/Ramsay just how dangerous he is, but continuing to put up the face of reserve). We've now seen him rape her. The story is once again about her suffering and enduring.

I guess we could see this flipped on its head and it all turns into Sansa the hardcore gameplayer who gets Ramsay wherever she wants him to go and triumphs, but if that is the way it's going, then having her cry out and scream as Theon cries at the sight isn't the best start. There's also Brienne waiting and watching - unless they have yet another scene where Sansa turns her away, then presumably she is going to end up rescuing her or trying to rescue her.

What else is there to know about Sansa we don't already know? She overcomes. She suffers nobly. She's a victim who may, someday, sometime, get the chance to shine. And the rest seems to be stalling, with some shock value along the way.

Edited May 20, 2015 by DRW50

[quartermainefan]

Sansa started to change season 1. She started out being this silly girl even lying to protect Jofftey but by the end of the year she was thinking maybe it was time to kill him. Season 2 saw Sansa display her inner strength when it was she who calmed the women down at the battle of Blackwater and prevented everything from turning into panic and chaos--while all Cersei could do was drink. That was when Sansa proved she was strong, not when she died her hair black. You guys have this unfairly narrow view of what is strength, as if you are either Brienne or Cersei or you're nothing.

As for the rape, well, she'll wind up a widow I'm sure so this just is one more reason to kill him. I do find the criticism that this is the worst thing he has ever done ridiculous. That is such a "women's pain to the front of the line" way of looking at things. This guy chopped Theon's penis off? He skins people alive and breaks their fingers one bone at a time while ripping their nails out, and sends people into the woods so his dogs can hunt and maul them while they run in fear. None of this happened to Sansa.

Sansa has been shining since the very beginning, and thats why they changed the story to include her. They didn't want to writet out one of their main characters, and I don't blame them. Losing Sansa would be a critical hit for the show.

[DRW50]

That's not true. I've always defended Sansa from the time I started watching. I've always admired her strength from the end of season 1, when she had to go through so many horrors.

This isn't about my seeing Sansa as weak. It's about the show taking away her voice. It's about the show saying the only way she can be strong is to be raped and to survive a rape. It's about the idea that if a woman is not a kick-ass action figure like Brienne or Arya, she can only be strong if she is raped.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Sansa was strong starting in Season 1 when she was tempted to push Joffery off that small bridge when he forced her to see her lord father's head after he committed that terrible act at Baelor's statue. She said maybe Robb would bring her his head instead and that caused him to begin having the Kingsguard start hitting her horribly.

We've been seeing signs of Sansa growing up all along. So this didn't need to happen. And now anything she does afterwards will just be seen as her getting vengeance and as a result of being rape. Rather than her self development as a character/person.

It's so weird cuz I was listening to this podcast where the female was like "readers of the book who knew about this plot change have been watching with this sense of 'they're not REALLY gonna go 'there' are they?" and that's exactly how I approached this season the second I heard they were switching up her storyline. I was hoping against hope yet watching with so much dread these last few episodes. Like they've done a whole lot sh*tty stuff. From the Cersei rape to the Loras stuff to all the deviations from the book but I really didn't think they were going to go there and have Sansa be raped by Ramsay Bolton....on her wedding night of all nights.

This for a character who's dreamed of being married to the most perfect prince ever. It's just ridiculous.

Edited May 20, 2015 by ThePrinceOfSunspear