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3 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Her "Capitol" stint is why I will go to my grave blaming the reason it didn't quite work as Alexandra on the writing rather than Marj. At least during her first stint.
The second one, the writing was even more atrocious but she was on "F it" mode and just hamming it up the wazoo.

Till 1999 you mean? yes when she first came back the writing for Alex was more like it should be but when she came back again after Joan Collins Left it was terrible 

3 hours ago, Mitch said:

Yea. in her Capitol clips she is very, very strong without being...screechy.  Hey even her recurring days, in the clips I always mention as Marj's strongest point on GL, when she faces off with FauxAnnie in the attic..Marj is great.. as whomever wrote the dialogue that day just got Alex...(and admittedly, Marj makes for an earthier Alex then Bev but that's okay.) I will ALWAYS want to say..."Ya got quite a bark on ya, don'tja honey!" in the way Marj says it. Marj played what was on the page..period. 

 

https://youtu.be/hhgoNgo0L1U

This one???

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20 minutes ago, Joseph said:

Till 1999 you mean? yes when she first came back the writing for Alex was more like it should be but when she came back again after Joan Collins Left it was terrible 

https://youtu.be/hhgoNgo0L1U

This one???

I like Alex in this one. 
Annie on the other hand... God those writers didn't understand what had made Annie compelling in the first place.
 

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Within the past year or so someone posted a scene between Reva and Alexandra (then played by Beverlee).  It was a brilliantly written exchange where Reva was talking about her difficult relationship with her long lost son Dylan, and Alexandra was able to provide insight given her experience with finding her long lost son Lujack.  It was just two women, on a sofa, discussing a topic that should have been absurd, (I mean how many friends both have long lost rebellious sons?) but it was played so well that it became memorable.

I believe that even as soap fans we have only a certain tolerance for the farfetched.  So, once Nick McHenry came to Springfield, and now Alexandra had miraculously found the twin of her long lost son, the character crossed a line for me.  As much as I enjoyed the idea of Mindy being Alexandra's enemy after her affair with Roger, and how that was a perfect setup for conflict in establishing a relationship with Nick, the idea of a long lost twin was just too silly. 

For as ridiculous as the story of Eterna was on One Life to Live, at least it created a viable explanation for how a woman could forget giving birth to a child.  Since then, no soap has been able to find a reasonable solution for women who had long lost kids.  It is easy for a man to have a long lost kid, because one can always say that the baby was hidden from view by the mother.  But, even before digital prenatal care, women knew that they were pregnant, and very few were surprised by multiple pregnancies.  There have always been female characters who never had a child on screen, but when a future generation was needed for storyline purposes, stepchildren like India, or a favorite nephew like Alan-Michael served that purpose.  However, I think it makes a female character look stupid when they suddenly realize that they gave birth to a twin without knowing it.

I think Alexandra was done irreparable damage for the purpose of a plot driven story, and from there the rules that defined her as a character went out the window.  Allowing her to become a shrieking, blackmailing, kidnapping, extortionist shrew. 

Edited by j swift
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Marj was really competent I don't know if I should indicate it but I always remembered Marj Firstly for this is really interesting how her character was both the villain yet we can feel sorry for her she literally was killing to live

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15 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I like Alex in this one. 
Annie on the other hand... God those writers didn't understand what had made Annie compelling in the first place.
 

Yes..I love Marj Alex in this one...different then Bev in an earthy ready to roll in the mud way but tough and savy. It reminds me of what JVD said about her in one of the reunions...she had a great sense of humor and told filthy jokes back stage all the while wearing diamonds and pearls. BevAlex was at home in the drawing room reading the racing forum and I see MarjAlex more out in the stables with the horses and dogs then coming in and changing for dinner. It could have worked that way...though I wish they had just made Marj a Spaulding cousin from Kansas City struggling for dominance against Alan.

Speaking of struggling for dominance..they really dropped the ball with Amanda. She is the eldest of Alan's kids (yes, I say she still is his kind and they did retro write it back as such with one line later) and she was continually ignored by Alan in favor of yes Phillip but even AM.  Now I loved Poser but time past enough from the Malibu Madame that I wish it had been Amanda coming back at that time instead of Joan/Alex...the Alex/Alan stuff had been done to death and they seemed to want to stick everyone in time and never let them move on it was time for the Spaudling kids to fight over power..I would have Alex and Alan making their peace and Alex being content to live in Europe with Nick and Susan and maybe adopted kids, and then Alan names Phillip definately as his heir apparent getting everything and Amanda is  "Uh...no!" and she comes back and causes the trouble with the ex-wives club, etc. I knows it unpopular but I loved Poser but a good recast would work.

And speaking of recasts...I kind of like FauxAnnie in this...but yes, they forgot what made RealAnnie work...so I wish they had revealed this was not Annie but an imposter sent by Annie to cause the trouble and she is a fruitcake who starts to really think she is Annie.

 

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I never bought the Alex/Mindy rivalry as played by either Beverlee or Marj. 

Yes, Alexandra was humiliated by Roger's affair, as well as his business fraud, but I doubt that Alex would personally blame Mindy.  Mindy was too low in status and power for Alex to care about.  She was clearly a pawn, and a mature woman like Alex would have understood that fact.  Alex wound up spending far too much effort in trying to punish Mindy, and in my opinion, it was beneath her.  I mean when Alan cheated on his wife, Elizabeth didn't get into a rivalry with Diane, she blamed Alan, because she was a smart and sophisticated woman.  That's why I don't buy Alex caring that much about Mindy that she would waste years scheming to retaliate.

To me the interesting beat that got overlooked in that story is the idea that Roger was able to con Alex due to her naivete about business.  When Alexandra was introduced she had no interest in working for a living, and certainly she didn't care about a business that Alan created, but was not her family's legacy (a fact that was often forgotten by later writers).  However, I think it would have been an intriguing idea if Roger's scheme motivated Alex to learn more about business so that she would never be conned again. 

Edited by j swift
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22 hours ago, j swift said:

When Alexandra was introduced she had no interest in working for a living, and certainly she didn't care about a business that Alan created, but was not her family's legacy (a fact that was often forgotten by later writers).  However, I think it would have been an intriguing idea if Roger's scheme motivated Alex to learn more about business so that she would never be conned again. 

So Spaulding Enterprises was built by Alan? I thought Henry and Brandon were business partners and created it?Also when Alex first came back to town the business was very important to her and I remember she was really set on Phillip raised a Spaulding, and Lujack, who had Spaulding blood should run it eventually together and Ross was there to keep it going until that would happen.

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1 hour ago, Mitch said:

So Spaulding Enterprises was built by Alan? I thought Henry and Brandon were business partners and created it?Also when Alex first came back to town the business was very important to her and I remember she was really set on Phillip raised a Spaulding, and Lujack, who had Spaulding blood should run it eventually together and Ross was there to keep it going until that would happen.

As memory serves, (with a little help from Google), Henry and Brandon created Spaulding Enterprises primarily as an oil company in Chicago, with the help of Jenna Bradshaw's father Clyde Wynant.  Alan came to Springfield to start Spaulding Electronics, then when Brandon "died" in 1979, the electronics division was folded into Spaulding Enterprises as a whole.  

When Alex returned she had a clear vendetta against Alan for helping Brandon give away baby Lujack (ne Brandon).  She exposed Alan's deal with Beth's abusive father Bradley as a means of alienating Alan from his son.  Then, when Alan "died", Ross took over as CEO of Spaulding until Phillip and Lujack were ready.  

My point being that Alex was not originally interested in working at Spaulding.  She came to Springfield with a lot of money from her divorce from India's father. She just wanted to use the business as a means of revenge against her brother.  And it was lack of experience in management that Roger exploited and caused her a lot of shame, both personally and professionally.

Edited by j swift
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On 9/24/2021 at 11:48 PM, j swift said:

Within the past year or so someone posted a scene between Reva and Alexandra (then played by Beverlee).  It was a brilliantly written exchange where Reva was talking about her difficult relationship with her long lost son Dylan, and Alexandra was able to provide insight given her experience with finding her long lost son Lujack.  It was just two women, on a sofa, discussing a topic that should have been absurd, (I mean how many friends both have long lost rebellious sons?) but it was played so well that it became memorable.

I believe that even as soap fans we have only a certain tolerance for the farfetched.  So, once Nick McHenry came to Springfield, and now Alexandra had miraculously found the twin of her long lost son, the character crossed a line for me.  As much as I enjoyed the idea of Mindy being Alexandra's enemy after her affair with Roger, and how that was a perfect setup for conflict in establishing a relationship with Nick, the idea of a long lost twin was just too silly. 

For as ridiculous as the story of Eterna was on One Life to Live, at least it created a viable explanation for how a woman could forget giving birth to a child.  Since then, no soap has been able to find a reasonable solution for women who had long lost kids.  It is easy for a man to have a long lost kid, because one can always say that the baby was hidden from view by the mother.  But, even before digital prenatal care, women knew that they were pregnant, and very few were surprised by multiple pregnancies.  There have always been female characters who never had a child on screen, but when a future generation was needed for storyline purposes, stepchildren like India, or a favorite nephew like Alan-Michael served that purpose.  However, I think it makes a female character look stupid when they suddenly realize that they gave birth to a twin without knowing it.

I think Alexandra was done irreparable damage for the purpose of a plot driven story, and from there the rules that defined her as a character went out the window.  Allowing her to become a shrieking, blackmailing, kidnapping, extortionist shrew. 

And wasn’t Katherine Chancellor on Y and R so drunk that she forgot she had a child?   I’m forgetting but if so that has got to take the cake for forgotten children 

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On 9/25/2021 at 1:38 PM, j swift said:

I never bought the Alex/Mindy rivalry as played by either Beverlee or Marj. 

Yes, Alexandra was humiliated by Roger's affair, as well as his business fraud, but I doubt that Alex would personally blame Mindy.  Mindy was too low in status and power for Alex to care about.  She was clearly a pawn, and a mature woman like Alex would have understood that fact.  Alex wound up spending far too much effort in trying to punish Mindy, and in my opinion, it was beneath her.  I mean when Alan cheated on his wife, Elizabeth didn't get into a rivalry with Diane, she blamed Alan, because she was a smart and sophisticated woman.  That's why I don't buy Alex caring that much about Mindy that she would waste years scheming to retaliate.

Do you think it helped that Kimberley Simms was playing Mindy at this point? I think OG Mindy, Krista Tesreau, was too wholesome to have pulled it off.

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13 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

Do you think it helped that Kimberley Simms was playing Mindy at this point? I think OG Mindy, Krista Tesreau, was too wholesome to have pulled it off.

I think the status and power issue was present regardless of the actress.  Mindy was the child of her business enemy Billy, as well as the step-daughter of her romantic rival Vanessa.  And, as noted, Alex was sophisticated enough to know not to blame the mistress when a husband strays.

It would be like Roger Thorpe going after Ben Reade or Josh Lewis getting into a beef with A.J. Chamberlain, it would have been beneath them and broken the inter-generational code of civility on soaps.

Edited by j swift
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On 9/25/2021 at 1:14 PM, Mitch said:

Yes..I love Marj Alex in this one...different then Bev in an earthy ready to roll in the mud way but tough and savy. It reminds me of what JVD said about her in one of the reunions...she had a great sense of humor and told filthy jokes back stage all the while wearing diamonds and pearls. BevAlex was at home in the drawing room reading the racing forum and I see MarjAlex more out in the stables with the horses and dogs then coming in and changing for dinner. It could have worked that way...though I wish they had just made Marj a Spaulding cousin from Kansas City struggling for dominance against Alan.

In that first year or so they did play up some of what you are talking about with Marj, like when she would play basketball with Buzzj. This then faded entirely. 

I thought there was enough history between Alex and Mindy - played up even more in the months before the affair reveal - to make Alex's anger understandable. The problem came when this moved from Roger to Nick. Both women became defined by Nick, and lost any personality or purpose outside of him. Beverlee played the Nick obsession in a visceral, ugly way, raw pain and rage and sickness - likely due to her dislike of the material. Marj just camped it up and felt very hollow. I can't judge her as much I would have at the time because I had forgotten just how awful the writing was even before Beverlee left and I also did not know at the time that Marj's son had just died...but she still feels miscast to me, and I think that was always going to be the case. I resent that Alex was brought back solely to keep the Mindy/Nick "love" going, which by that point no one gave a tinker's damn about. The character should have stayed away until a more capable regime came in.

Edited by DRW50
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1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Beverlee played the Nick obsession in a visceral, ugly way, raw pain and rage and sickness - likely due to her dislike of the material. 

I am in the minority on this but I actually didn't mind the story under Bev.

First because there was enough trauma happening all at once for her - being had by Roger, being rejected by Nick - that it would make sense she would become a lot more emotional. And being able to tie back both issues to Mindy made her a logical target.
I mean she did rage at Roger but pursuing this further would be a constant reminder that she had been conned - not something someone proud like Alex would want to belabor. And she couldn't be mad at Nick since he was her son.
Mindy was the proxy for her hurt.
They wrote Alex as a lot meaner and obsessed than I think she should have been but I didn't think it was entirely absurd that she would overreact in this way.

Especially because of the subtext. Sadly they didn't explore it explicity except for that one insult from Billy when she told him about Mindy and Roger but I do think even the most secure older woman, humiliated and rejected by the two men in her life within a short period of time, would feel threatened in her feminity and self-worth.
Being "replaced" by a younger woman, especially someone who should be beneath her like j swift says and only became a viable "rival" because she is younger and more "obviously" beautiful, can shake anyone's self-confidence and it would make sense to react with resentment towards the symbol of her inability to stop time from passing, her body from aging, and so on. 
I don't know if there really was an non-insulting way to be more explicit about this but I built up this theory of the psychology behind the story which is why I took to it more than, well, most everyone else it seems.
And yes I know. I overthink things but sometimes it helps make potential bad stories a bit better

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Now once a recast Alex came back it became a lame trope of the shrewish mother-in-law instead and it was tedious. 

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10 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Now once a recast Alex came back it became a lame trope of the shrewish mother-in-law instead and it was tedious. 

Especially so since Marj had already played the shrewish mother-in-law on SB. Granted, Pamela Capwell was a much broader character than Alex,but still...

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